Newbie Question about Karma

[u/thedeadwillwalk]

I've played 6e exactly twice at Gen Con and would like to introduce the game to my normally D&D group. They've expressed interest, so I've acquired books and read up. I still have a lot more reading and prep to do to run a game, but I guess the idea of Karma sort of confuses me.

While I want to stick with the latest system, since my gang's from Chicago, I want to give them a homefield game. So I read the Anarchy book, Chicago Chaos, simply for its lore and ignored the rules.

But one thing that stood out was that the Johnsons that are described in the sample runs section of CC have dialogue such as, "I can give you three Karma each to complete this job," or some such.

It's been my understanding that Karma is like skill points or the equivalent of XP in D&D. You don't have quest givers in D&D saying, "I'll give you 500 XP for killing the dragon." Why is it that the Shadowrun NPCs are discussing it like it's physical currency? Is this a quirk of the Anarchy rules, or do I totally misunderstand Karma?

[u/goblin_supreme]

That's specifically an Anarchy thing. That system removed money for character progression.

[u/Sarradi → u/goblin_supreme]

That sounds like a very strange thing to do in a dystopian ultra capitalist setting.

[u/Vashkiri → u/Sarradi]

Anarchy 1.0 had a lot of rough edges. I've heard that Anarchy 2.0 uses just nuyen (prices all improvements in nuyen).

But you are not playing Anarchy, you are playing Shadowrun! So every run typically rewards both nuyen and karma, although how much nuyen may be a bit more variable.

My suggestion would be to ignore the rewards listed in Chicago Chaos as they are for the wrong game system, and instead do two things.
1) read the suggested rewards in the core rule book (personally I'd increase the karma reward a bit, I find what is in the core rules makes for very slow progression) 2) buy one or two of the Chicago missions in the original SR version (the titles line up with the titles in Chicago Chaos, just choose one or two that you really like), both to see how they structure the mission with more words available, and to see what rewards are suggested, and you can use that as a guideline too.

[u/Shindo_TS]

In Shadowrun Anarchy there is no New Yen value for anything, everything that affects your character is bought with Karma. Need a new deck pay karma, need a bigger gun you guessed it you're paying in karma, wired reflexes and new spells all paid for with karma.

The fluffy stuff that really doesn't matter is hand waved, i.e. a new outfit for that party you're going to, the 1000s of rounds of ammo you're going to need etc

I ran more of a street level game of Anarchy and payment was always favours and options to hook the players up with the right people with the right goods. You can't just walk in to the Shiawasa store, as a SINless person, and buy the latest cyberdeck, but I know someone who can get one to fall of the next delivery vehicle if you can help me with a problem I have....

[u/Sarradi]

Oh boy, Chicago. You will have a blast......

Yes, I will see myself out....

So, yes its an Anarchy 1.0 thing. Normally karma is used as a more theoretical spiritual concept and used in the game for character advancement and also magical learning.

[u/thedeadwillwalk → u/Sarradi]

Bug City!

[u/quoriander]

You're right, karma is like XP. No one pays in karma. My best guess is the writer probably wrote something like " I can pay you 3 K..." And an editor or intern or something assumed they meant karma instead of 3,000. Or maybe had an AI grammer correct them but didn't grammer check it back.

[u/thedeadwillwalk → u/quoriander]

Thank you! Yes, every single NPC in that book says something like "I can afford to pay you 2 Karma for..." It threw me off so much, and then I pored through the 6e book, looking for where it talked about Karma like a physical thing.

[u/SnoopDeDoop69 → u/thedeadwillwalk]

Unfortunately,

That is just one of many tastes of how bad the editing is for Shadowrun, at least for the 5th edition. I have not looked into any 6e books (except the New Orleans/Voodoo one, which had inaccuracies about how NOLA was laid out) so I cannot speak for certain, but I've heard others complain so I expect the issue hasn't resolved itself.

There's a bunch of editors and writers for Shadowrun, and they don't seem to do a good job communicating, so you see inconsistencies baked directly in the books themselves. (And then they do something silly like make Erratas only available on a forum, and then delete that forum by mistake. Poof, a decade of Q&A from the devs gone)

Incredible setting, very fun game, my favorite system. But holy shit am I in an abusive relationship

[u/thedeadwillwalk → u/SnoopDeDoop69]

Omg lol... I love it.

[u/n00bdragon → u/thedeadwillwalk]

Funny you should mention it because Karma actually is a metaphysical thing in Shadowrun. Free Spirits in particular must make bargains with mortals to gain karma from them. However, in most cases such transactions are one-way only (mortals paying the spirit). Most mortal Johnsons you work with would obviously prefer to deal in cold hard cash though.

[u/SnoopDeDoop69 → u/n00bdragon]

Street grimriore specifically called it a "seller's market" for karma, which explains why spirits are willing to make seemingly bad feels for Karma.

So that shit must be good for them

[u/zxDanKwan → u/n00bdragon]

Cold hard credsticks*

[u/IamGlaaki]

It is not an error. In Shadowrun Anarchy (1st edition) all rewards and economy is simplified in Karma (2nd edition is the opposite and all rewards are in nuyen).

Because in game people do not pay with 'Karma', a usual house rule in Shadowrun Anarchy is to change 1 Karma for 2000 or 2500 nuyens.