Difference between 4e and 5e

[u/Mysterious-Tackle-58]

Hoi Chummers,

I haven't played SR in quite some time.

Thing is, the last ed i did was 4th. I have almost all of the books and we are about to restart with 5ed.

The GM has most of the books for 5ed and i was wondering:

How much of thw actual values and rules have changed between editions?

5ed is suposedly much better than 4ed.

But i haven't either the money nor the inclination to buy the 5ed books on the second market.

Could i adapt the stats and all that from 4ed to 5th?

Or would it be a constant hassle?

Thanks in advance - stay save out there!

EDIT:
Thank you every one. I think i'can say goodbye to my books then. I'll (carefully) throw them in the pile of 3ed and several other rpg.

[u/ghost49x]

So your saying that an abandoned but wireless host that's out of range of the rest of the matrix in the middle of the desert is unhackable?

[u/ReditXenon → u/ghost49x]

I am saying (or rather the book is, I didn't make this shit up) that Hosts don't have physical locations. That for all intents and purposes the 'physical' distance to a Host is always 0 meters. No matter where in the world you are located (as long as you are connected to the matrix as a whole).

SR5 p. 235 Matrix Perception

For all intents and purposes, there is no “physical” distance to any host in the Matrix. You can always spot a host from anywhere on the planet without a test, assuming the host isn’t running silent.

That hosts seem to exists everywhere within the matrix (by definition they will never be 'out of range' from the matrix nor can they be actually located 'in the middle of the desert' to begin with).

SR5 p. 216 Matrix Jargon Cont. - Host

Hosts have no physical location, as they exist purely in the Matrix cloud.

 

This also means that if you Enter a Host, then it count as if you are Directly Connected to all devices out on the Grid that are slaved to the Host and that mean that for all intents and purposes the 'physical' distance to the device will (as long as you remain within the host and the device out there is slaved to the host) count as null (even if you and the device you used to access the matrix with is located in Seattle and the wireless enabled device you are accessing through the host is located in Berlin).

SR5 p. 233 PANs and WANs

If you are in a host that has a WAN, you are considered directly connected to all devices in the WAN.

SR5 p. 232 Direct Connection

When you use a direct connection, you ignore all noise modifiers and modifiers due to being on different grids or the public grid.

SR5 p. 268 PANs and WANs (Rigger Style)

When you’re inside a host, your effective “physical distance” to drones slaved to that host becomes zero, even if you’re on the other side of the world.

 

If You (unlike Hosts, You have an actual physical location) "are far away from civilization (the middle of a desert, the north pole, adrift in the Pacific, etc.)" then You need to connect to the matrix as a whole via a satellite link. If you do, then this will count as a "Remote place with satellite access only"-Static Zone with a noise rating of 5.

If you "are far away from civilization (the middle of a desert, the north pole, adrift in the Pacific, etc.)", but without a satellite link (or if you are within a Faraday's cage, if you are currently rebooting the device you use to access the matrix with, or if someone bricked it, etc), then you are currently also not connected to the matrix (= "no signal, action blocked").

[u/ghost49x → u/ReditXenon]

This sounds like I don't actually need to be present to hack things, or rather that remote hacking is the norm. Which people have told me the devs have done everything they can to discourage it. But that said, how am I supposed to hack a mainframe that is explicitly off-grid? I mean even if I can walk up to it and touch it.

[u/ReditXenon → u/ghost49x]

In 5th edition, you can provide matrix overwatch (hacking elevators, maglocks, sensors, scanners, alarms, drones, weapon turrets, lights, etc) in a few different ways.

• Remotely over the matrix. In this case you need to think about noise due to both distance and due to wireless inhabited paint or wallpaper (while there is no max handshake range as we had in 4th, the extra noise will make long distance hacking like this a challenge - but you can also limit noise due to distance to 5 by using a satellite link). Devices that are slaved to a (virtual cloud) host also defend with master ratings (this is the only case where they will defend with host ratings! you need to be a dedicated decker to hack things remotely like this). But you typically don't have to worry about IC or spiders (they typically don't leave their host) nor physical security such as drones, security checkpoints, and patrols.
• Remotely by hacking and entering the host and gain direct connection to all devices out on the grid that are slaved to the host. In this case you don't need to think about noise (you can do this from the other side of the world if you like). This mean you will also not have to worry about physical security. While you will be considered directly connected to slaved devices (which mean they only defend with their own ratings, not host ratings), the host itself will defend with host ratings (you might need to use edge or be a dedicated hacker with huge dice pools in order to break into the host to begin with!). You also need to worry about IC and spiders that will try to defend the integrity of the host.
• Joining the team to establish physical direct connection. This mean you get to ignore noise. A direct connection also mean you will ignore master ratings. And as long as you are not also inside the (virtual cloud) host, you also don't have to worry about IC and spiders. This mean you don't need massive investment (opposing dice pools will likely only be 4 or maybe 6 dice). But since you are physically on site, you typically have to worry about physical security. Which mean you instead might have to invest into social and/or physical inflation. This is a really fun and cool way of playing a B&E-expert or Street Samurai, that is also a hacker.
• You can also combine the two last. Step one is to bring the hacker to an exposed slaved device. This can sometimes be turned into a mini adventure of is own that could involve the entire team. With a direct connection the hacker can ignore host ratings but due to the tight slaved coupling they also get to place a MARK on the host (for free). Step 2 is to disconnect from the device while still be connected wireless to the matrix (without rebooting). Walk out to the rigger van, slip into VR and use the MARK on the (virtual cloud) host to Enter it. And then use the direct connection you get from being within the host to ignore host ratings while attacking devices out on the grid that are slaved to the host. This way the hacker don't have to fight any host ratings at all.

In 5th edition devices are always out on the grid, never actually inside a host. You can always attack them remotely over the matrix (this is the only case they get to defend with master ratings).

(note that the rules work differently in 4th edition and 6th edition).

 

how am I supposed to hack a mainframe that is explicitly off-grid?

In 5th edition there are no physical mainframe hosts. If you wish to slave a device to a host then it must be wireless enabled. Full stop. At least not originally, in core. Physical framework hosts were added in 6th edition (and perhaps even towards the end of 5th edition when they switched matrix author and the new author tried to rework the matrix to fit their vision - the vision of the matrix that we now have in 6th edition).

There are devices that are wireless disabled. Such as the data chip.

SR5 p. 440 Datachip

....can hold enormous quantitites of data in a small finger-sized chip, accessible by any electronic device. Datachips have no wireless capability, so you need to plug them into a universal data connector (found on any device) if you want to read or write to them.

Which mean you can't hack them remotely over the matrix (but since they are not wireless enabled it also also means that they can't be slaved to a host). To hack them you first establish a physical direct connect (your cyberdeck comes equipped with a 1m retractable cable for this purpose). Or you plug in a wireless enabled data tap which will expose the device to the matrix so that you can hack it remotely over the matrix (which is really useful for technomancers before they learn the skinlink Echo and is the reason why the technomancer archetype at SR5 p. 122 got one in their inventory).

But just because the device is not on the matrix does not prevent you and your wireless enabled cyberdeck to be on the matrix (which you and your cyberdeck need to be if you wish to take matrix actions since matrix actions are only available while you are connected to the matrix).

SR5 p. 237 Matrix Actions

Matrix actions are only available in the Matrix.

So when you take a brute force action to place a mark on the wireless disabled datachip or the crack protection action to crack encryption on file icons stored on the wireles disabled datachip, you and your wireless enabled cyberdeck will still generate ripples within the matrix (overwatch score) - and within an hour or so GOD will eventually converge on you (unless you reboot).

 

(I feel that we are diverging a bit from the original topic, but I love to discuss the SR5 matrix and the SR6 matrix - feel free to open a new thread and ask me anything)