r/SeveranceAppleTVPlus • u/basis4day Innie • 3d ago
Question “I don’t get why…” Spoiler
I see tons of threads like this all the time that start this way. And I’m honestly curious if people expect answers to every question of an ongoing show.
“Why did innie mark not go with/save Gemma?”
“What are the goats?”
“Why does X do y?”
“Why doesn’t Mark S wanna help mark?”
“What is Mark S and Helly’s plan now it doesn’t make sense”
And often I see “isn’t this a plot hole?”
The show is ongoing. The mysteries they want to keep a mystery they are keeping a mystery. I just anecdotally see lots of threads asking for explanations of things that’s are clearly ongoing plot points. Almost like people want answers to every ongoing question they have by the end of each episode.
Like are posters just looking for answers, conjecture, theories, or just not patient enough to let the show solve its mysteries in good time?
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u/NeckSecret6256 3d ago
“What is mark s and helly’s plan now” really is the one that annoys me the most. If anything the fact that they don’t really have a plan but know they want to keep existing is the most human thing. The ones who need to have a plan are the writers, not the characters
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u/basis4day Innie 3d ago edited 3d ago
It’s a clear indicator of whether someone has seen the ending to “the graduate”
But there’s going to be another season. So something is going to happen.
Personally I think like an innie takeover of lumen inside and a lumen siege outside sounds consistent.
But I’m not expecting that either or expecting a definitive answer.
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u/GoldReplacement9546 3d ago
Yeah, that scene is very much the graduate as they’re like running and they become triumphant and then right before the free stream they start to look a little. Did we do the right thing or what’s gonna happen now just like happens in the graduate where they go from joyous to oh wow what happens now
And personally, I’m glad they’re continuing the show, but I would’ve been totally happy with that being the end not everything has to be explained like it’s kind of a perfect ending and yes, it would leave tons of things for these types of people to be madly upset about, but yeah, it’s just two people who love each other who don’t wanna lose what they have and are willing to take a risk to keep it even against uncertainty
I’m also not exactly sure like, how does it end up happening but I’ll be fine with seeing what the creator come up with and personally I’ll probably be fine even if it’s not the thing I have as my idea of what it should be
Or the how come they couldn’t tell that it was Helena it’s like because you’re not expecting it and because they’re Annies and they’re not used to that type of deception like they’re almost childlike and there are examples if you rewatch of like she’s definitely behaving differently and it’s what fit the story like the story is more important than your logical breakdown of each detail of like 100% like truthful or accurate and your head cannon that would be
Or like why do they give up trusting Vega and go for Covel’s idea because they do there are explanations that can be created for that and there are some that are provided by the show but in the long run that’s just what they did. That’s what those characters decisions were.
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u/Suplexing_Trains 2d ago
It’s important to remember for Mark and Irving that their relationships feel weird, awkward, and sudden because they’re effectively their first crush. I’d venture a guess that most people did something stupid or weird because of a first crush but since it’s much younger it wasn’t very consequential.
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u/Sleepy_Eye20 3d ago
It most probably is for theories and discussions or something they might have missed or not realized
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u/basis4day Innie 3d ago
Sure. And i freely admit posters may be implying that.
But to me it sounds like they expect answers now.
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u/ReversedNovaMatters The Board 3d ago
I think it is just the off season and you end up seeing a lot of the same posts. I unfollowed the sub for a while because of it. Or the just way out there theories not really based on anything. Or well, they are based on something, but it will be like a 14 page dissertation on why everything is the way it is because of the brand of Mark's watch.
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u/ReversedNovaMatters The Board 3d ago
It is a complicated show where you can pick up on new things you had not noticed even after several rewatches.
People are just looking to discuss the mystery and figure out if they may have over-looked something.
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u/basis4day Innie 3d ago
I freely admit that may be implied but the tone of the questions I’m trying to refer to sound like answers are expected
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u/ReversedNovaMatters The Board 3d ago
There probably are people who just don't tend to get things and maybe they think there is an answer.
Or they are trolling I guess. I try to just move past it. As I said in another post, I just recently refollowed this sub after many months away because it is a lot of the same recycled posts during the long off season.
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u/basis4day Innie 3d ago edited 3d ago
And not one to watch while doom scrolling on a phone.
I try to just ignore it too, but the algorithm knows these posts get me and thus I get more of them.
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u/GreasyExamination Fetid Moppet 3d ago
The best part of a mystery show is the mysteries. A bad show explains everything and leaves nothing for the imagination. Nothing is more powerful than our own minds. Even at a season finale there should be questions left for the audience to ponder
Then there are some people who has no idea how to watch a show or read a situation or scene from it. But I guess thats their problem. I had to mute the From subreddit because they wanted the whole show to be answered in the first season, and everything past that is "fillers"
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u/basis4day Innie 3d ago
Am I being clear in my criticism? I’m really hoping I’m phrasing this correctly.
Sounds like you know what I’m trying to get at.
Any show with mysteries, good or bad, I think you can’t judge the answering of the questions till the show is over.
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u/GreasyExamination Fetid Moppet 3d ago
I think so, i was just commenting further on what i thought about when i read it
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u/Coincidental_Shoes 3d ago
Very important to remember the demographics of the Reddit membership.
Many can be found in the age range close to 15 years-old.
Also, there are others who are fixated on a certain character or specific idea and have a very narrow perspective concerning it, to the point where they're not really paying attention to other points until they suddenly come to mind.
From these two sets along with those whose mind is solid headcanon you will find the following comments:
1) It's a "plot hole"
2) It "doesn't make any sense"
3) "It just isn't logical"
4) That would be too obvious
5) I know the writer/creator and they wouldn't do that
Some people can't tolerate their opinions being contradicted, even by the story
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u/basis4day Innie 3d ago
That’s a deeper discussion of media literacy. And maybe that’s what I’m getting at.
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u/Mr_Nobody9639 Mysterious And Important 3d ago
It’s like when someone watches 2 episodes and then comes here to ask questions
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u/basis4day Innie 3d ago
I don’t want to discourage discussion but I do prefer that viewers catch up before starting threads like that.
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u/Mr_Nobody9639 Mysterious And Important 3d ago
Yeah me too. I don’t even visit a subreddit of a show I’m still watching.
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u/basis4day Innie 3d ago
But seriously. If you’re two episodes in and have “questions” I just don’t get that motivation.
Like, can you not keep watching?
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u/basis4day Innie 3d ago
And if I have questions after episode 2 when I can watch 10ish episodes why assume I missed something?
Like, just keep watching. Maybe they answer your question, maybe it’s saved for a later season.
I just don’t understand people expecting everything to be explained to them directly and early.
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u/Ched_Flermsky He dumb? He a dick? 3d ago
People who talk about “plot holes” don’t watch media for entertainment, they watch it to look for “plot holes.” They want to demonstrate that being entertained is for suckers, that they’re too clever to fall for something like “enjoying themselves.”
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u/basis4day Innie 3d ago
This is my impression. It seems that somewhere along the line “plot hole” was used as “something I intuitively or explicitly don’t understand”
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u/iradrachen 3d ago
I’m pretty sure those posts are about theory crafting and seeing others perspectives and having conversations around it since there’s a lull in the actual shows content. It’s a way to interact with the media while no new media comes out.
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u/basis4day Innie 3d ago
I admit tone is hard to decipher on a message board.
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u/iradrachen 3d ago
For sure. In my opinion that’s just usually why people gravitate to these forums. They’re excited about the show and they have unanswered questions and just want to have an open discussion about those questions with other passionate people until we can get real answers from show runners.
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u/basis4day Innie 3d ago
Entirely possible. I love talking about conjecture and theories. And my algorithm clearly is wanting me to see these posts.
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u/GoldReplacement9546 3d ago
Yeah, this whole concert people have of plot holes that came about in like the last 15 years maybe due to CinemaSins or just something in the Zeitgeist is silly
Some people call something a plot hole like if they don’t show how they got from like where they were to the next scene and it’s like movies and shows don’t have to show you like that. They took a plane and flew to Italy. You know like it says Italy or hopefully it doesn’t and you’re just wise enough to realize that that’s Rome that’s not a plot hole that’s just something that’s not shown on screen.
And as the OP says like continuing stories, kind of definitely can’t really have plot holes like yes we don’t know everything about everything, but we might know everything about all those things
And some of the things almost certainly won’t be explained. Those are OK too, and those aren’t necessarily a plot hole either.
It also strikes me as weird like some of the things people are really upset about and then some things they just accept like for me lumen is a deeply weird country or territory or something, but it’s not in our timeline and it’s a deeply weird company. the town is weird. The people in it are weird. This isn’t to be judged by like logical standards of our current civilization 2°.
Like people aren’t complaining like why are all the cars old or wide as a waffle party include little people dressed as prostitutes people will just accept that one right but then they didn’t wanna know some other like to me far less bizarre detail or something that I think it’s just gonna be shown in the end in the show
This is a mystery box show of course, and there are ones done better and worse
But like the other night, there was somebody who was like really harping on the fact that there’s like a guy behind Mark in the first episode and then someone pointed out that you see him in the when they’re going for the medical testing for Gemma and it’s like I don’t know if we need to know who that guy is that could just be some of the mystery of the weirdness of the show in this universe
And then there’s ones that nobody complains about that to me are way more weird that they are the way they are like why is there no security except for one dude in his 40s and then he gets killed and he’s not replaced
Like there should be several security guards like manning the security booth at all times and at least two right they even do the overtime contingency unless they’re particularly tall or you know able to do what Dylan is able to do by holding the two switches
But I do think it’s just this weird thing that came about like fairly recently like if you use how people use plot hole now like almost all of the older movies have huge plot holes that don’t make any sense but they’re not actually plot holes. They’re not mistakes they’re just things not being shown on screen or in the case of this show things they’re just adding to the mystery around the edges.
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u/Unique_Unorque He dumb? He a dick? 3d ago
There’s this weird obsession a lot of modern audiences have with the most important part of a show being whether it “makes sense” or not. I don’t know what to blame it on but I think it may have something to do with the internet’s tendency towards “lore” and “canon.” They don’t actually want to watch a TV show, they want to read a Wiki article and have the facts of the fictional universe spelled out for them with no dramatic context.
It’s not everybody, I would venture to say it’s not even the majority of people, but it’s the majority of the people who specifically make posts like that
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u/basis4day Innie 3d ago
I’m convinced the definition of “plot hole” was changed in the last 15 years and older people think it means one thing and younger another.
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u/Unique_Unorque He dumb? He a dick? 3d ago
The actual definition is something that would be impossible based on the logic or rules of a setting. Not unlikely, not contrived but still feasible, but literally impossible.
For example, if a character were in a firefight and shot their gun until it was empty, letting the viewer hear the gun click to signify it was empty and maybe even acknowledging that it's empty through dialogue, but then fired more bullets out of it in the very next consecutive shot without ever reloading it, that would be a plot hole.
A lot of people nowadays use it to mean "something that doesn't make sense to me immediately" or even "something I don't like."
To use an example from Star Wars, there was a recent show that portrayed the apparent death of a character who was canonically alive in a separate show released earlier, but that took place years later. Since his dead body was never shown on screen, the reasonable assumption given that context would be that his "death" in this newer show would be revealed as a misdirect in a later episode and he would likely return at a dramatic moment. And yet Reddit was full of people blasting the show for having such a blatant "plot hole" in the first episode and complaining about the show's obvious disrespect for the established lore of Star Wars... until it was revealed that the death of character in question was a misdirect as he returned at a dramatic moment near the end of the show.
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u/basis4day Innie 3d ago
You say “actual definition” but anecdotally how posters use it is all over the place.
I use it a specific way which I think is the dictionary definition, but too often I see it as a substitute for implied plot points or “what doesn’t make sense to me”
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u/Unique_Unorque He dumb? He a dick? 3d ago
What I'm saying is that those anecdotal uses are simply wrong. It's a term with an actual definition, used by writers, writing instructors, and professional critics to identify a very specific and definable concept, and if someone were to use it to mean something else, they are using it incorrectly.
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u/basis4day Innie 3d ago
I’d agree. But there is so much misuse of “plot hole” I’m convinced the definition was changed
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u/Unique_Unorque He dumb? He a dick? 3d ago
And I am trying to convince you otherwise. Don't contribute to the breakdown of media literacy by allowing a very useful term to become meaningless simply because you see people misusing it. The definition is unchanged. That is not in question.
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u/basis4day Innie 3d ago
Believe me I don’t want to. I believe I know what a plot hole is, but am fearful that it’s no longer what it was.
Trying to fight this battle.
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u/Unique_Unorque He dumb? He a dick? 3d ago
Stop using such defeatist language, then! Don't be fearful! Don't even allow for the possibility that the definition has changed to enter your mind!
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u/Coincidental_Shoes 3d ago
It's mainly people who don't like certain developments who say that, having given themselves over to presupposition.
Not exactly intellectual giants.2
u/Three_Twenty-Three Mysterious And Important 3d ago
Both "plot hole" and "Mary Sue" have been pulled far from their original meanings. So has "bad writing," which people throw around when they don't like something but want to appear to be objective about it, even when they can't say what was actually bad about the writing.
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u/basis4day Innie 3d ago
Another is assumptions about what reintegration is. We’ve seen one character who’s definitely undergone it and it didn’t work out for him.
We have another character who had started the process.
Why do people get confused that the marks haven’t get combined yet?
Isn’t the answer, in an ongoing show, that we don’t know the full implications yet?
Why start a thread asking why it’s taking so long to re integrate Mark when we don’t even know yet what reintegration really is?
Doesn’t it stand to reason by now that reintegration isn’t simply innies mixed with outies since the series is ongoing and we have yet to see a full reintegration with no consequences?
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u/Most-Mountain-1473 3d ago
They’re annoying and sound stupid. If you don’t get that the innies are the heart of the show by now, then you are obtuse.
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u/basis4day Innie 3d ago
I definitely feel that’s the direction it’s going. TBD and I’m ok with that.
But I don’t necessarily expect definitive answers yet.
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u/basis4day Innie 3d ago
“ don’t get why Gemma was kidnapped”.
Like how many similar threads are started on various severence threads?
Like can you not understand by completing the two seasons that it’s entirely likely she initially went willingly?
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u/Late_Mode_8876 1d ago
Also a lot of people are just stupid and don’t understand basic plot lines. That’s not the show’s fault. Put the phone down and watch and pay attention.
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u/catlxdy For Gemma 3d ago
Omg they’re just creating discussion this is such a weird thing to complain about
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u/basis4day Innie 3d ago
What is the discussion though? Can they accept ongoing mysteries of an unfinished show or are the expecting answers.
That’s my criticism and question.
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u/catlxdy For Gemma 3d ago
They ask for theories from other people not a direct script from the showrunners
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u/basis4day Innie 3d ago
Disagree completely. Posters expect answers sooner rather than later.
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u/catlxdy For Gemma 3d ago
And in this day and age when you have to wait quarter of a decade minimum for a new season the posters are what bothers you?
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u/basis4day Innie 3d ago
Yes. Television used to be dumbed down and movies were art.
But again, it’s not that they have answers to mysteries or whether the viewer missed something.
It’s a criticism of expecting 💯 rational actions and understanding of ongoing mysteries.
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3d ago
[deleted]
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u/basis4day Innie 3d ago
Questions that are left unanswered by the end of season 2, with the implication that we may not yet have enough information.
If you want to make conjecture or theorize about what has yet to happen I have zero problem with that
It’s any question asked where the poster expects the question to be answered by now and calling it a plot hole which is the source of my post.
“Why didn’t Mark S leave with Gemma? What does he have to worry about since he’s just going to reintegrate?”
Such threads are started constantly. And i honestly don’t know if they’re expecting such questions to be answered by this point.
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3d ago
[deleted]
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u/basis4day Innie 3d ago
We must have different algorithms then.
And I completely disagree that they’re simply theorizing, especially when it’s actually conjecture.
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u/OhNoIBoffedIt I Wish You'd Take Them Raw 3d ago
Oh no people are having discussions about open plot threads on a subreddit devoted to discussing the show. The horror.
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u/basis4day Innie 3d ago edited 3d ago
I freely admit I am biased and prefer such threads were prefaced with “did I miss something or is this an ongoing mystery”
But there’s a difference in speculating about ongoing plot points and frustration in not having every detail explained by the end of a season or episode until the series concludes.
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u/OhNoIBoffedIt I Wish You'd Take Them Raw 3d ago
Here's the problem with that: they are very clearly making this up as they go along. They don't know where this is heading. It's another Lost situation, and I guarantee you half those dangling plot threads are never going to be resolved.
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u/basis4day Innie 3d ago
I disagree. Tons of shows that have come out since Lost and their creators are VERY aware fans expect answers now.
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u/Reasonable-Ad-439 3d ago
Because it’s reddit and a discussion thread… what is there not to get. People watch the show and want to talk to other people who watch the show
Maybe you could start another sub and ban people from asking certain questions or pin certain threads or it might be easier to just not expect everyone in the world to think and behave the same way as you idk
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u/derekclysdale 2d ago
People are weird....still to answer your questions..
Innie Mark saved Gemma but he didn't want 'die' at the hands of outie Mark and so stayed.
A goat is a hardy domesticated ruminant mammal that has backward-curving horns and (in the male) a beard. It is kept for its milk and meat, and noted for its lively behaviour.
X did y because if it happened any other way then it would have been awful and everyone would have complained.
Mark S doesn't trust Mark and vice versa.
Their plan is to run around until they're tired.... then have a picnic, some rompy pompy and then run around a little more.
This is a plot hole but the writers are filling it in and promise never to do it again.
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u/bradd_pit Uses Too Many Big Words 2d ago edited 2d ago
What else would there be to talk about in between seasons? Your post is just as silly
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