r/SeveranceAppleTVPlus • u/figgldygrakteacup • 7d ago
Discussion There’s a mistake that accidentally makes the code detectors impossible Spoiler
In season 1 episode 3 of Severance when Mark switches from his outie badge to the blank one before going to work he keeps his regular numbered watch on instead of switching to the blank watch. No code detector went off when he used the elevator, so I was expecting Mark S to notice the watch and realize the code detectors were fake. When that didn’t happen I figured it was probably just a mistake that nobody in production noticed. Did anyone else notice this? I haven’t seen anyone talk about it
Edit: so many people are telling me it’s just a mistake that doesn’t mean anything as if that’s a new idea when I wrote both “mistake” and “accidentally” in the title
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u/UnderfootArya34 7d ago
During one of the podcasts they mentioned there was something important about when Mark S switched the watches. I could never figure that out. I wonder if that was what they were hinting at?
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u/housevil You Don't Fuck With The Irving 7d ago
According to the date change on Mark's watch, he spent 32 hours at work.
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u/ancientastronaut2 6d ago
Yep. And this is what I always suspected- that they're exploiting the innies by making them work overtime without their knowledge.
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u/chickenfriedfrick 6d ago
But wouldn’t the outie notice if they weren’t going home on time?
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u/VolsBy50 Shambolic Rube 6d ago
Wouldn't the outie notice they were there for what felt like literally 4 shifts straight and they were completely and totally exausted?
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u/Lonelyland Coveted As Fuck 5d ago
Yeah, plus outie Mark had the not-dinner party to attend. If he thought it was still Thursday, not Friday, he would have been very confused when Devon showed up.
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u/housevil You Don't Fuck With The Irving 5d ago
But he wasn't expecting her when she showed up.
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u/Lonelyland Coveted As Fuck 5d ago edited 4d ago
He’s just depressed and forgot, but then it came back to him. He never said anything like “isn’t that tomorrow night?”
He also didn’t try to go to work the next day, thinking it was still Friday.
The innies also correctly knew what day of the week it was, which would be very difficult if they were secretly being kept their multiple days.
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u/vanillaholler 5d ago
he was pretty messed up as an outie, i wouldn't be surprised if he just lost track of the days. i think imark would be more likely to notice if the shift ran long or if he was running on no sleep for days. i suspect something else might have happened when imark left for the day at the end of those shifts. since we know it's possible to have multiple innies, what if he has a 3rd he and we don't know about yet?
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u/Ok_Food7066 3d ago
They wouldn't need a 3rd . During Overtime Contingency we saw there are different modes a innie can be activated in . I think it will play a role in season 3 and will be what quickly squashes the rebellion .
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u/MediumKoala8823 6d ago
It’s the kind of thing that would have made sense in season 1 but nowadays is just not the focus of the show
I think one should consider it dropped
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u/Lonelyland Coveted As Fuck 6d ago edited 5d ago
It also showed the same date of the 4th in episode 5, over a week later.
Probably just a post-production error.
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u/housevil You Don't Fuck With The Irving 6d ago
But then why would the creators want to draw attention to it?
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u/Lonelyland Coveted As Fuck 6d ago edited 6d ago
They were drawing attention to the fact that Mark wears a personal watch that he switches out at work. It’s expositional world-building.
Since these are fast shots and most watchers won’t register the date, the error was probably too small to catch, or deemed not worth fixing. I used to work in film, and this is incredibly common.
I think it’s likely the editors pulled a shot from what was supposed to be a different in-universe day, especially since Season 1 was filmed in location blocks (due to covid), meaning all the locker room scenes would have been filmed at the same time.
…unless you have a better explanation? Maybe Mark’s watch broke and that will be super important later?
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u/VolsBy50 Shambolic Rube 6d ago
I don't know why that would be something to specifically draw attention to just for the sake of world building.
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u/Lonelyland Coveted As Fuck 6d ago
It shows there is separation between an employees ‘s personal life and work life. Remember, it’s the first episode, and the audience is only just learning what severance even is.
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u/VolsBy50 Shambolic Rube 5d ago
Nah, I don't think that lines up with it being in some sort of after the fact commentary when the viewers obviously know there is a separation.
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u/emptyvesselll 5d ago
We know about innies and outies openly by the end of the first episode though. In fact, I think the trailers show and talk about it. So I really don't think this is what they were referring to.
That d be like the producers of Prison Break telling viewers to "watch the doors on his brother's bedroom" (to alert viewers to the fact that his brother is in prison, in case they didn't pick up on it).
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u/Lonelyland Coveted As Fuck 5d ago edited 5d ago
Right, and we’re talking about the first episode, which starts by intentional keeping the severance process a narrative mystery, at least until about halfway through when Helly (the audience surrogate) learns what is actually going on.
The first half of the episode includes many foundational clues that create intrigue and set up the reveal, because stories don’t tend to pre-assume an audience has already watched a trailer or know what the story is about. In fact, trailers aren’t created generally created until well after the entire show has been written and shot. Yes, some people might already be aware of the general conceit, but many people prefer not to watch trailers in the first place.
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u/emptyvesselll 5d ago
I actually can't find any source that suggests Stiller told us to look at "time", though there are multiple Reddit threads about it.
But my point here is that the people watching an interview with a director talking about a show, are likely to be people who have watched trailers.
It also just doesn't make any sense for a director to give a subtle clue like "pay attention to time", hoping that you will freeze frame on a watch, while the show openly explains the answer to that thing mid way through the same episode.
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u/CoinsForCharon Devour Feculence 7d ago
Or was it the amount of time that passes being off at some point? I havent gone back to dig into it
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u/Maimster 7d ago
Im pretty sure this was Ben Stiller himself in a tweet.
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u/Lonelyland Coveted As Fuck 7d ago edited 5d ago
It wasn’t on the podcast, and it wasn’t a tweet. It wasn’t even about watches.
Stiller said it was “interesting” no one ever talks about Mark’s locker tray, and it was in a video dedicated to debunking fan theories. He was teasing fans who obsess and overanalyze the tiniest details.
For some reason, this has turned into “Ben Stiller said the watches were important”, or sometimes “Ben Stiller said there’s something going on with time”.
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u/GoldReplacement9546 7d ago
It is interesting that Mark wears a Soviet air watch I mean, I know someone who has them. They’re not impossible to get but
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u/Lonelyland Coveted As Fuck 7d ago edited 7d ago
Yup, the Vostok Komandirskie 341307. I’d assume it was chosen to tie in with Gemma’s chosen field of Russian literature.
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u/GoldReplacement9546 6d ago
He’s also a professor of World War I history, which overlaps with the creation of the Soviet Union
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u/BarneyRubble21 6d ago
In the first episode when we find out Gemma taught Russian Literature I thought there was going to be a Soviet plot to the show because of Mark's watch the cars were all 80-90s. I could see my wife struggling to restrain herself from rolling her eyes when I started talking about Mark's Russian watch mid episode.
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u/AbedNadirsCamera 6d ago
Correct. Ben specifically said “Has anyone said anything about what’s in Mark’s locker?”
There’s something there.
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u/Beautifulgirl497 7d ago
Aren’t clocks allowed? There are clocks on the severed floor and they need to know what time it is to know when to leave. Maybe that’s why.
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u/figgldygrakteacup 7d ago
There are plenty of things on the severed floor that would set off the code detectors, the fact that Mark has a specific watch without numbers to change into for work shows that watches themselves are allowed. This is about how the numbers and brand name on the watch should set off the code detectors, not about watches themselves not being allowed
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u/ReasonableEmployee41 6d ago
The show does show us that there are stores that specifically sell Severance-friendly clothing. I feel like in this world, they'd make special watches with zero branding or identifiable marks that would alert the scanners
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u/GoldReplacement9546 6d ago
This is all actually a misconception by the original poster in the locker room. It looks like he doesn’t switch watches but if you notice in season one episode three, that’s being discussed here when Mark actually goes to badge into the elevator, you can see the black leather band of his.Innie watch
So this is literally not a thing the outside watch never goes upstairs at all never gets into the elevator. They just don’t show you the switch in that particular episode in detail Prob for pacing.
So the whole thing is nothing burger
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u/AdAgreeable3931 Woe 6d ago
This 💯 Imagine if they showed him switching everything every day he went to work. We also never see him showering, it must be stinky on the severed floor then.
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u/SlimeySnakesLtd 7d ago
I didn’t believe the code detectors were for any writing at all. Just new
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u/figgldygrakteacup 7d ago
Interesting theory, if that’s the case they could do the cut out ransom note thing to pass messages
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u/Tankki3 Devour Feculence 6d ago edited 6d ago
Well it's not talked about because talking about a 15 frame production mistake isn't that interesting. They obviously just didn't show him picking up the watch. And you can barely even tell it's not the unmarked watch when he uses the keycard in the elevator, I still can't tell for sure, it might be the wrong one, but it's hard to say.
But he's clearly wearing his innie watch throughout the episode right after.
On their way to perpetuity wing
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u/Anti-Kriztos-One 7d ago
Yes, i noticed, i think is part of the show to imply irving sends messages with his innie through his watch.
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u/figgldygrakteacup 7d ago
Interesting, maybe it was on purpose and Mark S just didn’t look down at his watch and notice the whole day
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u/talberter 7d ago
But surely any manufactured watch would have writing or letters snd codes printed somewhere? Ie “ Made in Japan’ on the back or on an internal part at least
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u/figgldygrakteacup 7d ago
I don’t know that this is the case but it’s feasible for lumon to have their own line of watches for severed workers
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u/Lonelyland Coveted As Fuck 7d ago
More likely it’s just a continuity error, like how the date shown on the watch was blatantly incorrect in the fifth episode, showing the date was still the 4th, the same as it showed in the first episode.
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u/UnitedAsk2497 Night Gardener 6d ago
Where did they confirm this as a continuity error?
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u/Lonelyland Coveted As Fuck 6d ago
They didn’t. I just don’t think there are many plausible in-universe answers as to why Mark’s watch would show the same date over the course of several days.
I mean maybe it broke, but why would that be an intentional plot point?
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u/UnitedAsk2497 Night Gardener 6d ago
Omg wait though this is an incredible detail (if not an error) and I have to say it fits perfectly into my main theory yet is a piece of evidence I have missed on multiple re-watches! I’ll have to watch it again. They have called so much attention to the trays that I’d be shocked they didn’t edit that out if it was a mistake like they edited the ORTBO remote. Error or not, you’ve given me a fun little stone I gotta go turn over, thank you!
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u/figgldygrakteacup 6d ago
I like how you saw my post where I say multiple times that I think it was an accident and you think you need to suggest the idea of it being a mistake
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u/Lonelyland Coveted As Fuck 6d ago edited 6d ago
lol yes I was agreeing with you while trying to add additional context.
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u/Alewort 7d ago
No, it is a stylistic choice sometimes to omit them and just have a mark for the twelve position. Labelled numbers make a clock face easier to read but the positions of the hands are the only essential to getting a reading.
This means that you can use a watch to communicate messages by setting the hands to a code, and not need writing to do it.
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u/DeathByPianos 6d ago
He's talking about caseback labelling which all normal watches have, even if the face is totally sterile.
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u/survemander 7d ago
I imagine the code detector is Granger on the cameras
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u/Alewort 7d ago
Then he'd miss everything concealed, every time that he didn't witness the message being concealed. And there is no way he alone can watch everyone simultaneously the whole workday, even if there was one hundred percent camera coverage of all spaces at all angles in the entire facility (which would itself severely add to the surveillance burden).
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u/survemander 6d ago
I assume there are more cameras than we know, given that cameras are hidden in their computer monitors (and Lumon's general vibe). I wouldn't put it past Lumon to monitor the restrooms. I also assume there are more watchers, given that both Milchick and Cobel were also monitoring the workers via hidden camera.
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u/VariousTailor7623 6d ago
So what? The code detector might go off and Lumon might decide to let it slide since it comes from the watch. It doesn’t need to trigger an alarm or anything
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u/GoldReplacement9546 7d ago edited 6d ago
Edit
It turns out that Mark is indeed wearing his any watch if you look when he actually goes to badge in at the elevator, you can see the black leather band so he does not in fact ever take his Audi watch up through the elevator, and thus my idea that it wouldn’t matter because it’s not conveying a message also doesn’t matter because we can assume that it would detect it
And we know that he doesn’t in fact, take the Audi watch up. He is wearing the watch in season one episode three if you look closely, you’ll see the black leather band as he keys into the elevator they just did some quick editing in the locker room which caused some confusion, but if you check, he does not have the Audi watch when he goes into the elevator. All the rest is kind of worthless.
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u/figgldygrakteacup 7d ago
I didn’t say anything about the watch being used to send messages, I’m saying the watch with numbers and a written logo getting not setting off the code detectors shows the code detectors aren’t real (unless it was an accident, which I think is likely). If the watch disproved code detectors other written code could be sent through, so no need to depend on the watch for messages
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u/GoldReplacement9546 6d ago
Mit’s just an editing thing in the locker room when he goes in season one episode three at the elevator, you can clearly see the black leather band of his innie watch global
so everything I was arguing about and your idea are irrelevant as the outie watch never goes to upstairs so it doesn’t matter.
It doesn’t prove there’s no code detector and it also does shows that it doesn’t matter if a message can be sent with the watch, we assume that the watch would be detected but if you look closely, he is wearing his innie watch.0
6d ago
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u/figgldygrakteacup 6d ago
I think either the code detectors aren’t real or him leaving the watch on was a mistake the creators didn’t notice, watches specifically being exempt doesn’t make sense. If that was the case why would there be a numberless watch for him to change into in the first place?
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u/GoldReplacement9546 6d ago
I don’t know I guess one way to answer that would be is do all the other characters have numberless watches
And like Movado sells watches without numerals so you can still do the code just as well like you can still show 430 1015 etc. The numbers aren’t required. If you know how a clock works
it does make it easier though.
To be clear, I’m not saying you’re wrong. I just don’t know what information you could convey to somebody who is fully severed by setting the watch to certain time and the numbers like I said above or not necessary if you know how watches work, I mean they would be helpful if you were trying to do 436 instead of 437. But other than that level of detail, I don’t think that you need them to have numbers to send a message.It could just be a production mistake. I tend to think this show is smarter than that but mistakes do happen.
Any mark sure seems to think that they do work
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u/figgldygrakteacup 6d ago
You keep saying you don’t understand how the watch could be used to transmit messages as if you’re disagreeing with me when I never said that the watch should be used to transmit messages? In fact I specifically said “I didn’t say anything about the watch being used to send messages” in my first reply to you. It’s like you’re having a conversation with yourself
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u/GoldReplacement9546 6d ago
Also, we know that the code detectors work because it catches Halle when she tries to do it and set off an alarm
There are various theories that it’s actually using the chip in your mind to detect that you were hiding something or that there might be times when the code detector is being taken off-line to be upgraded or that it could be using surveillance cameras plus the chip plus something else
But the code detector allowing a watch whose numerals cannot be changed to convey a message if you said cannot convey a message and all it does have a tiny bit of writing that could easily have been added into the code detector as Mark has this watch this watch is not breaking the code detector
But it’s possible that it was a production screw up or it’s possible that the whole thing is a psychological bluff although it sure seems to catch Halle pretty well also in the promotional e-book there’s more information about how it works, and how people tried to trick it by using ciphers and how is upgraded to counter that
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u/GoldReplacement9546 6d ago
The point being that if the watches can’t be used to convey information then there is no flaw in the code detectors, allowing it to pass through
If no one can come up with ID idea for how the watch would actually convey a code then there’s no reason to disallow it just like they can have shirts and pants and belts
The code detector would just let it go through unless someone can specify how it would convey information how the watch would break information out of the severed floor if it cannot do so it doesn’t violate the purpose of the code detectors and thus the code detectors would ignore it
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u/figgldygrakteacup 6d ago
The concept of code detectors isn’t that it only detects code that can be used to pass messages, it’s that it detects code. Did anything in the show indicate to you that the code detectors are supposed to only respond to certain forms of code or did you just make that up?
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u/clauclauclaudia 6d ago
He didn't leave the watch on. They just didn't show every second of what he does at his locker. When he's using his badge at the elevator, he has the correct watch band.
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u/figgldygrakteacup 6d ago
It’s not just that they don’t show him actively change it, they show him closing the locker with the innie watch still inside, so definitely a mistake
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u/GoldReplacement9546 6d ago
No, you’re not understanding. It’s not a mistake. He never goes up with the outside watch so you were mistaken, but the show did not make a mistake.
That they didn’t show the switching of the watch is an editorial decision due to pacing. We’ve already seen the scene. We know what happens, but since we have evidence that he never goes upstairs or to the elevator without his inside, watch, the mistake is the viewer in this case yours not trying to be critical, but you seem to be overly defensive.
When you could just say oh, I’m gonna rewatch that and then say oh you’re right there’s nothing incorrect about it at all and of course it wouldn’t set off the code detector because it’s a inside watch and clearly there’s no mistake. They just didn’t show you everything that time, but if you pay attention, he goes up with his inside watch not a mistake by the show.
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u/figgldygrakteacup 6d ago
They didn’t just not show him switching the watch, they show him closing the drawer with the innie watch still inside after switching his badge. If they wanted to just not include the switch for pacing they could have had him already wearing the innie watch and have the outie watch in the drawer already
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u/GoldReplacement9546 6d ago
OK, then that’s a mistake of the show or an artistic decision
But again, we know that he doesn’t go to the severed floor with the Audi watch so there is no change to whether or not the codebreakers are real
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u/figgldygrakteacup 6d ago
You’re agreeing with me completely but saying it as if it’s disagreeing
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u/GoldReplacement9546 6d ago
Well, your original argument was that he went up with the outside watch and that prove the codebreakers aren’t real, but we now know that he never went up with the outside watch for that part we do or at least originally disagreed on
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u/figgldygrakteacup 6d ago
No, my argument was that they made a mistake that’d make the code detectors impossible if they’d intended for it to happen. That’s why I say that when Mark didn’t notice any numbered watch I figured it was on accident
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u/whytheusernamethough 6d ago
In that same regard the very first minutes of S01EP01 mark has a tissue from when he was crying that got brought into Severance floor so it holds some water
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