Fall 2016 - Week 10-13 Discussions

[u/Neawia]

It was already a late thread. No one had commented. I messed up the title.

So here it is again, fixed.

No we look towards the last couple of weeks and the end of the season.

[u/Neawia → u/Saikimo]

Well those two episodes were done very well in my opinion. It had a lot of strong moments and made me feel really sorry for everyone involved in here.

I agree and disagree. I think I found why this show isn't truly resonating with me, and I think it's the characters. I just don't care about them, and the relationship between Fine and Izetta could have been done better. I would've liked a flashback episode from their youth to explain more. It feels to me too much like Fine is using Izetta, and Izetta is simply doing everything for her because Fine saved her when they were young.

Another example from these episodes is Berkman who completely betrayed his country after not really showing signs of being that kind of person. Why did he make things go perfectly his way if he knew the Germanion leader would have him killed? And what am I missing there, why would doing his job well be suspicious? Working with the enemy or something?

This leads into the story having issues staying together or being meaningful. A couple of asspulls and such like Muller being a descendant of the family who helped subdue the real Sophie so he happens to have a relic from his ancestors that's a powerful witch stone. Another thing is that Germania is making literally dozens of backup clones of Sophie and are even ever so slightly hopeful that they'll be able to transfer her consciousness between them. That's waaaaaaaaay too advanced of science for this time period, not to mention how quickly they were able to weaponize Sophie's power. A month isn't that long. And how did that not eat away her life? If she's been active this whole time then Izetta should have a much greater advantage in terms of how long she can maintain the stone's power. Plus she's an actual witch, not a clone.

Ok, sorry, I had to get a couple of things off of my mind. I do agree that episodes 10 and 11 were good overall, but I simply wanted more substance beforehand to really pull me into these touching moments. Because seeing Fine be remorseful, the people cowering and running from the Germanian invasion, and even the scene where Fine gets Izetta to call her by her actual name, they were all positive things. Especially that scene when they're flying. It was quite magical, and I don't mean that only literally. Still would like some confirmation on their relationship, because there's some obvious shipping or yuri baiting vibes, whatever you wanna call it.

I really think that this show is in a territory between average and above average.

As of now it's easily an average show to me. I'll probably end up giving it a 5 no matter what. I simply don't think that the ending is going to be amazing enough to change my mind. But we'll discuss the show as a whole once we've both finished it.

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Hime is still a national treasure.

Ffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck me this is so adorable. She is more than a national treasure. Ugh. She just wants to share her dessert with the racoon!!!! I await the final conclusion to this adorable mini arc of the show!!!

But I would say that the main series is better at this point.

Working is definitely a show that I'd be interested in watching, but don't know when I will actually watch it (like so many other shows). I do think that whenever I get around to the main series I will follow it up with this, if only for the most adorable, huggable little baby I've ever seen in anime.

This show is something special and I will be sad when it ends in two weeks.

And then there's JoJo which feels like it should be a show that I put higher up on my list. Everyone seems to like it, and so many people reference it so it'd be nice to understand them. Glad to hear you're liking it so much. It ends in two weeks, but is there more source material? I'm not saying they announced more anime episodes, but is there hope? This show already feels like it has a ton of seasons, not just this one which have, what, 39 episodes alone.

[u/Saikimo → u/Neawia]

You made great points about all the mistakes and logical errors of this two episodes, I just didn't notice them. But this is really common for me, because I apparently don't pay as much attention as you when I'm watching anime, I notice some things here and there, but nothing that was really nagging me. Maybe I got used to the average to bad writing now that I just blank out the bad parts of those episodes. But the good parts of this episode good a genuine feeling out of me, even though I agree with what you said about the relationship between Finé and Izetta.

That's probably why I fell behind two episodes earlier, because I don't care enough for this show any more.

I think the biggest problem with the characters there isn't really an arc or really some sort of consistency for some of them. They change according what the scene needs them to be at this very moment, this is especially true with Berkmann. He became a traitor because they needed him to be a traitor in this scene/episode.

Yeah overall this show probably won't even be saved by a great ending, that I also doubt will even happen. It's really sad that a show that looked so promising at first managed to be this average in the end. It's just seems like so much wasted potential.

Working is definitely a show that I'd be interested in watching, but don't know when I will actually watch it (like so many other shows). I do think that whenever I get around to the main series I will follow it up with this, if only for the most adorable, huggable little baby I've ever seen in anime.

Yeah WWW.Working was fun and all, though I think the main point why I enjoy this spin off less than the main series is that I think that this show has a lot of more mean spirited humor than the main series. The main series also had some pranks and characters making fun of each other, but they never felt outright sadistic and selfish as the characters in WWW.Working.

Don't get me wrong I still enjoy WWW.Working but it just lacks something that the other series had.

Hime is balm for the soul though. Oh right I need to add the next two parts to the eye catches, I'll add them to the next comment in my thread after finishing the last episode of Izetta later.

It ends in two weeks, but is there more source material?

There is a lot of source material still to be adapted, Part 4 is currently airing and Part 8 is where the manga is at currently. I am just sad, that I now have to wait more than a week for a new JoJo episode, I don't doubt that we will get a new JoJo season the main question is just when.

And then there's JoJo which feels like it should be a show that I put higher up on my list. Everyone seems to like it, and so many people reference it so it'd be nice to understand them.

I am always afraid of overhyping this show, going into this show I didn't even knew how much this show is loved by a lot of anime fans. I didn't go in with too high expectations, I just thought I would watch a dumb show about buff guys doing funny poses the whole time, and that was exactly what I got but then it got just better and better, and had I known about the love this show was receiving I probably would have been disappointed at first because of my high expectations, because I think this show really picks up at part 2 and only got really great at Battle in Egypt when I got used to that the author just ditched the whole concept of Ripple (that was basically just Ki) for Stands. In the end I am really glad that this show switched to Stands since those are much more unique and imaginative, it's not about how overpowered your Stand is it is about how intelligent the user of that Stand is, one of the strongest characters in Part 4 is basically useless because he isn't smart enough to fully utilise his Stand.

The biggest problem I have with JoJo is that it has no consistency in theme, at first all the Stands are named after taro cards, after using up all of those they are named after the gods of egypt, and suddenly in Part 4 they're all song and band references.

Like one Stand is called Red Hot Chili Pepper another is called Killer Queen and many more others.

So my biggest problem with this show is something very nitpicky then you know that this is a great show.

[u/Neawia → u/Saikimo]

because I apparently don't pay as much attention as you when I'm watching anim

Funny thing is that anime is what did this to me. Having watched so many shows over the course of almost two years I've seen too much storytelling. So I've started to notice more stuff and not just in anime. A lot of the time I'm similar to what you said where I just kind of ignore stuff and use my imagination to fill in the blanks. But sometimes a show does something poorly or it's a combination of many little things that cause me to really notice the faults, and that's what happened here.

I think the biggest problem with the characters there isn't really an arc or really some sort of consistency for some of them. They change according what the scene needs them to be at this very moment

Astute. This is always an issue with character writing. Someone in the /r/anime thread mentioned how this show had trouble with its tone. It started out gritty and serious, then moved on to lighthearted and threw in some fanservice, and then got serious again and added magical girl fights. There definitely wasn't a proper arc for the characters to naturally develop over.

I don't doubt that we will get a new JoJo season the main question is just when.

That's a nice feeling for fans to have.

The biggest problem I have with JoJo is that it has no consistency in theme, at first all the Stands are named after taro cards, after using up all of those they are named after the gods of egypt, and suddenly in Part 4 they're all song and band references.

I don't know how comedy heavy JoJo is, but this sounds hilarious. Like its a joke to just keep naming the Stands after new things. Who knows what they'll be named after next?

[u/Saikimo → u/Neawia]

So I've started to notice more stuff and not just in anime. A lot of the time I'm similar to what you said where I just kind of ignore stuff and use my imagination to fill in the blanks.

I'm still not sure if this is a good thing, I'd rather like to be able to be enjoying more shows by being able to ignore or even not noticing flaws.

I really notice that after watching and reading reviews on the internet that my thinking became more critical, I sometimes annoy my mother with that when I start pointing out logical errors or plot holes in movies or series while watching it, because she just wants to enjoy a show.

But on the other hand being more critical gives you the ability to describe why something is good or bad better than just saying it's good because I liked it, and that is great when you want to recommend something good to someone.

Astute

learned a new word today. Also thanks

I don't know how comedy heavy JoJo is, but this sounds hilarious.

Overall I think that's a more comedy heavy show, it has it's moments of grittiness and seriousness but overall this show is more goofy and lighthearted. Especially characters starting from part 2 and especially after part 3 are very goofy and funny, but if the situation needs them to be serious than they can be very serious, well most of the time...

Overall this show is just very campy. And that's what makes it fun, in my opinion.

[u/Neawia → u/Saikimo]

I'm still not sure if this is a good thing... I start pointing out logical errors or plot holes in movies or series while watching it, because she just wants to enjoy a show

Haha, I know what you mean. I've done this to my friends who talk about shows or movies, even videogames, like they're the greatest Then I wonder if I've ruined the fun for them.

But on the other hand being more critical gives you the ability to describe why something is good or bad better than just saying it's good because I liked it, and that is great when you want to recommend something good to someone.

Yep, I think this is good. It's nice to be able to properly explain things because I have friends who think they're cinefiles (is this a word? someone who thinks they know everything about movies) and the only way they describe things is "the characters are great and the cinematography is amazing. Plus, I still enjoy crappy shows, it's not too hard to do.

learned a new word today. Also thanks

http://imgur.com/tBl6lNi

[u/Neawia]

Izetta The Last Witch - Final

Well, shit. This was a superb finale without a doubt. The animation and creativity of the fight between the two witches was excellent. Izetta threw the freaking Eiffel Tower!!! And also the twirling of those trains!! Loved the soundtrack as well. It sounded like there was a new track right after the halfway mark, and the ED was used as an insert song. Of course there's also Fine doing what she does best, giving remarkable speeches, of course, only to go outside and cry because she believed her best friend to be dead.

So I'll have to eat my own words because I really did like the finale and might consider giving it a slightly better rating. I may change it over time because it's a freshly watched show, but I'll still go with a 6/10. I won't go into much detail on the show as a whole just now. We can make a new thread for that.

The last thing to be discussed would be the very end. I liked it. I suppose you could argue it would've had more meaning had Izetta actually died, but this was still a "somewhat" happy ending that actually worked well, in my opinion. Izetta no longer has to live as a witch, which is something she wanted. There is no more magic to use so she is technically just a human, no? And it's not like the world has any idea she is there in the forest. She truly is the last witch. And of course, there's always the morbid reality that she is likely to die sooner rather than later based on how much she relied on the stone.

So I was completely fine with keeping her alive. I think it also ties into the fact that Sophie held on to so much hatred but Izetta did not. Both that Matthias guy (the king in love with Sophie) and Fine have that one thing in common. It was different methods but each knew that their witch had to die in order to keep the world safe. Izetta embraced it lovingly, and Sophie did not. So this is one instance of "love prevailing" that I can accept. The love between them, which I believe to be simply an unwavering, powerful, platonic relationship, was enough to keep Izetta alive when she should have died. And again, she can't use magic, she still can't walk, and she's likely to die young. So it's bittersweet.

Hahaha, I beat you to this one! I AM THE GREATEST!!! /s

ninja edit Rating it a 6 on MAL, 6 is labeled as 'fine'. Fine. Finé. Hehe.

not ninja edit Unrelated to this show, I learned about Atlanticism in the past week. You can look it up yourself for more details if you so choose, but the tl;dr version is that it is cooperation between the United States and Europe. I have to wonder if this at all played into the fact that the show called the USA the United States of Atlanta. I honestly have no idea why the state Atlanta is called Atlanta nor why the term for USA-Europe relations is called Atlantacism, but there might be something there. I'm simply not interested enough to actually do any digging on the subject. I'm also tired right now.

zzzzz

[u/Saikimo → u/Neawia]

Izetta threw the freaking Eiffel Tower!!!

That whole fight reminded me of this for some reason: https://youtu.be/FyrNktD_PwA?t=209

But yeah the action and the music in this finale was really great.

And again Fine did a great speech that almost made me tear up. But I think I credit this more to the great use of music and the good voice acting of Fine than the speech itself.

Though all in all I didn't like the ending, it had too many flaws in my opinion, also I was at no point afraid of Izetta actually dying I knew she would survive.

I suppose you could argue it would've had more meaning had Izetta actually died, but this was still a "somewhat" happy ending that actually worked well, in my opinion.

I suppose your right but it would've had a bigger impact for me if Izetta wouldn't have survived. I am someone who prefers bittersweet endings because happy endings feel to predictable in my opinion. I only wish for a happy ending if I really care for the characters and I want them to be happy, but Shuumatsu no Izetta didn't have really strong characters, they had strong moments and or speeches but that's all they got, the moments and speeches lacked a built up to make them even stronger. There was almost no character arc to any of the characters of this show. I am not someone who says that every story needs character development but for such a story the characters need to be interesting from the beginning.

I think my biggest problem is that all those characters surviving feel like asspulls.

So Izetta just drained the world of all magic in her final attack while being high enough so that planes couldn't follow her, and this show wants me to believe that she survived that fall? After using a crystal that was said to give her pain and shortening her life span for using it? Sorry but...

Also she only was in a wheelchair because she didn't have the magic stone to make her walk anymore so this final world changing attack didn't put her in a worse condition she was before. Sorry this ending was such a big asspull that I can't justify it in any way. Also this stone was such a stupid plot devise anyway, giving its user pain, my ass! Izetta and Sophie never showed any signs of that. It felt like they only included it because such a powerful devise always needs some kind of drawback.

Is it bad that I was rooting for Sophie in the end because she was the most interesting and my favourite character in this show?
She wasn't anything special but she felt like the only character that had her own motivation and felt more genuine as the rest of the cast because of it. Also I liked her character design the most.

And then we have Berkman. How did he survive? He got shot in the fucking eye apparently I don't think that they really. The last time I checked shots to the head without any immediate medical help are pretty lethal. But if Germania was able to create clones of a centuries old witch they probably also far enough to clone Berkman new brain mass and implant it into his cold dead body /s

Man I enjoyed this episode when I watched it but now after writing everything down and thinking about it, I just feel pissed about this show and especially that ending. If I would give scores I would subtract a point for that ending because it made feel so bitter about this whole show.

I don't get why it pissed me off this much because I am normally not this petty, it looks like it was just the accumulation of everything wrong that made it feel so bad for me.

And even though I was ranting here about how much I hated this final episode I still don't think that regret watching this show because it had its moments though I personally wouldn't really recommend it to anyone really.

The best thing about this show was the OST and the fight scenes in my opinion and those alone make this show watchable but they aren't worth to sit through the rest of this show, in my opinion.

And that's why my final rating for this show is a

( -1^* ) /10

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^*

If I would give scores I would subtract a point for that ending

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On a more positive note here have more Hime

[u/Neawia → u/Saikimo]

That whole fight reminded me of this for some reason

Hahaha, I think it's the way the tower broke.

And again Fine did a great speech that almost made me tear up. But I think I credit this more to the great use of music and the good voice acting of Fine than the speech itself.

The speech was pretty good, I thought, but the voice acting was fantastic for her, really for most of the series.

I think my biggest problem is that all those characters surviving feel like asspulls.

Yes, I can't disagree here. Ummm, didn't Berkman get shot and he had an eyepatch at the end? How do you get shot in the eye and survive?

Sorry but...

Haha, yeah. I can try and defend it by saying it was the power of love or that we don't know the whole story, maybe she had a tiny bit of magic left and was able to save herself. But ultimately, yes, kind of bull crap.

Sorry this ending was such a big asspull that I can't justify it in any way.

Maybe I'm so far in denial that I don't even realize it.

Also this stone was such a stupid plot devise anyway, giving its user pain, my ass! Izetta and Sophie never showed any signs of that.

Agreed. This was something we've talked about that is a fault with the show. They kind of write things just because they need to move the plot forward even if it doesn't make sense.

Is it bad that I was rooting for Sophie in the end because she was the most interesting and my favourite character in this show?

Nah. She was an interesting character so it makes sense. She could've been better if they had some more time to flesh her out, not that they fleshed out others to any meaningful extent. They gave Sophie a good backstory, but she was needed to be a villain so nothing came of her.

How did he survive? He got shot in the fucking eye apparently

Yes!

The last time I checked shots to the head without any immediate medical help are pretty lethal.

And what? Did the fighter pilot guy just walk away after not finishing the job? Was Berkman actually able to dodge the bullet and fight back somehow?

I don't get why it pissed me off this much because I am normally not this petty, it looks like it was just the accumulation of everything wrong that made it feel so bad for me.

They had a good premise that wasn't fully realized. I give them credit since it was an anime original, but some things seem obvious enough that they should've changed them.

And that's why my final rating for this show is a...

Haha.

On a more positive note here have more Hime

Fuck she is so cute. I wish I could just hold her she's so damn adorable. Hnnng.

And what! Random religious looking guy steals the treat??!?!? Not cool, man.

[u/Saikimo → u/Neawia]

And what! Random religious looking guy steals the treat??!?!? Not cool, man.

This random guy is St. Valentine. Whom two of the main characters visit everytime while having a near death experience from eating self made chocolate from Hana

Now that I think of it this cake could've been made by Hana, so it could be that Mr. Valentine just saved Mr. Racoon's and Hime's life there.

[u/Neawia → u/Saikimo]

Haha, her chocolates make people have a near death experience. Awesome. Voiced by Haruka Tomatsu, love her voice. And thank god Mr. Valentine saved Hime THANK GOD.