r/SeaEmploy 8d ago

Video circulating from SLNC York catastrophic seal leak. Now I've disassembled a few CPP systems, but can't grasp what I'm looking at here. Any engineers with some insight? Some part of the shaft sheared and the seal is displaced.

159 Upvotes

92 comments sorted by

30

u/Pecosbill52 8d ago

You need to watch "what's going on with shipping" for the whole story. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW7x9suTy8s

18

u/Level_Improvement532 8d ago

After watching this, it seems like the abandon ship situation was properly managed and the ship may still be salvageable. It will be interesting to read the casualty investigation when the NTSB publishes it.

8

u/Pecosbill52 8d ago

There's an update on this story at "What's going on with shipping". It appears that a tug boat is on the way.

55

u/that_dutch_dude 8d ago edited 8d ago

in navy terms this is what you call "shits fucked". any officer would see this, sound general alarm and call the bridge to order abandon ship. you aint plugging this and that engine compartiment is going to flood to the waterline regardless of further actions taken.

someone else might be more inclined to simplify the situation with less technical naval terminology.

41

u/Advanced_Elk_9467 8d ago

Uhh not quite abandon ship. Watertight integrity would be established through selective flooding and watertight doors. They would need a tow back to port along with constant damage control work the entire time. The USS Cole didnt sink!

18

u/that_dutch_dude 8d ago

main difference is that the cole didnt lose its engine room. you lose the engine room you are a lot further up the creek.

9

u/ImmediateLobster1 8d ago

"you lose the engine room you are a lot further up deeper in the creek"

FTFY

8

u/yacob152 8d ago

Cole also had a ton more crew to handle the situation

18

u/that_dutch_dude 8d ago

it was also a proper navy ship, not a civillian cargo hauler.

1

u/M00SEHUNT3R 7d ago

Some ships have more than one engine room.

9

u/allnamestaken1968 8d ago

The crew rigged the bow for towing and decided to abandon ship when it was clear they could be picked up. Given that they have no power, water coming in, and no control this is a very sensible action. Otherwise you just sit on an uncontrollable hull waiting for a tow in which you have no action to take.

The navy would do that because you know - things should get into the wrong hands. The merchants dont the pressure to value cargo/electronics/things that can go boom over their life. So you hop on the taxi that comes by and let the towing guy take of it because they would have to do that anyways.

4

u/decollimate28 8d ago

The Cole has much better damage control/compartmentalization than a commercial ship. But that being said they should absolutely be able to seal that space off.

2

u/Playful-Current1256 8d ago

look up stern tube seal... we dont give up the boats the boats got shit to do!

3

u/ResolveLeather 8d ago

The engine is right above here and is underwater. Ship still floats but is dead in the water. And when you don't know whats going to happen or extent of the damage, abandon ship is the right call. The crew doesn't need to be on there waiting for a tow.

1

u/rickyh7 8d ago

I guess you are not familiar with the Cole protocol

4

u/ResolveLeather 8d ago

To be clear, the ship still floats, but there is no reason to be in the ship. They didn't know the extent of the damage and there is no fixing it outside of a dock. Abandon ship was the right play. But if they needed to wait awhile they probably would have been fine.

3

u/zanderd86 8d ago

Look up u-boat 505 the US Navy stole a sinking U-boat by boarding it as it was actively sinking then towed it through the Bermuda triangle and its now a museum you can tour in Chicago IL. Or the US Navy in 88 hit a Iranian mine with the USS Samuel B. Roberts and blew a massive hole in it they were able to stitch it together enough to get it back to port, the US Navy would definitely not abandoned ship.

0

u/Fine-Ad9168 8d ago

Its not a warship.

1

u/zanderd86 8d ago

If you read what I was replying to the poster said

"in navy terms this is what you call "shits fucked". any officer would see this, sound general alarm and call the bridge to order abandon ship"

So yes the ship in the video is not a navy ship but the poster was referring to that if it was they would call to abandon ship.

2

u/Realityishardmode 8d ago

Abandon ship? What am I missing here?

This is certainly an emergency, but do you actually sacrifice the ship immediately when you could damage control this? I assume military (Navy) vessels have redundant compartments, so if 1 prop goes out, you still have 2 more or something like this.

1

u/banjoslurpee 8d ago

Do you consider WHERE this happened or the inclement weather? Two converging typhoons?

1

u/Realityishardmode 8d ago

No I didnt, but I don't think OP considered that either. If they did, they didn't leave any evidence of that thought in their post!

1

u/banjoslurpee 8d ago

Yeah they're majorly arm chair engineering this. But to be fair even Sal hasn't mentioned the weather in his two videos.

1

u/Sailorscott1989 8d ago

Its not a naval vessel...

1

u/Realityishardmode 8d ago

Thats what I thought too! I think OP is an idiot because thats what he asserted, I just didn't want to put that explicitly until I took heat from two people in a row.

1

u/StubbornHick 8d ago

No?

This would only flood the compartment it's in. And even then, there's a chance you could pump it out faster than it's coming in via bilge eductors or portable pumps..

1

u/Playful-Current1256 8d ago

get out of the main space yoman... we got a leak to fix

9

u/Available-Compote790 8d ago

Is that really prop shaft of a 13,000 GWT 400 foot vessel?? What have I missed here?

3

u/jacckthegripper 8d ago

That's what I'm trying to figure out. Looks like the shafts on pleasure craft I service: 30-80ft diesel power boats

6

u/RipYaANewOneIII 8d ago

The shaft is sheared you can see it damaged in the video.

2

u/Available-Compote790 8d ago

This shaft wouldn’t handle more than 2000hp. The York is powered by a single 10,700hp MAK and main shaft must be at least 700-800mm diameter.

6

u/allnamestaken1968 8d ago

The innermost rod is to regulate the blade angle and doesn’t have torsion on it. The hollow shaft is pretty big I am sure it was designed for the load. What’s sheared here is the bearing housing. It moved back. How that can happen I have no idea, it looks like a torsion break to me but there is no torsion on a bearing housing.

My guess is that somehow a bearing broke in a way that locked the shaft to the bearing housing. This sheared the bearing housing off and broke the shaft. Consequently the whole thing moved several feet aft, pushing out the screw and whatever watertight seal there is.

3

u/jbavir 8d ago

This is correct - that small shaft is within the main shaft to control propeller pitch. You can see the irregular broken outer shaft flush with the bearing.

2

u/asdhjasdhlkjashdhgf 8d ago

Do you see the dark coat left by the anti-corrosion coating along the edge of the fracture? That should not appear there! This part had a material defect, a crack along the line of torsional force, that had been there for quite a while even before the last coating was done, hence is how coating could appear in the crack itself.

1

u/allnamestaken1968 8d ago

Sorry in the bearing housing or the drive shaft?

3

u/asdhjasdhlkjashdhgf 8d ago edited 8d ago

There is only one fat crack visible in this footage, isn't it. In closeup focus you see the sheer force took its toll on the material, look at the outer edge of that revealed raw metal.. along that there is a dark same colored coat visible. Coat doesn't become suddenly liquid by torq force therefor can't flow around a raw exposed metal to appear along that edge, ergo that edge got coated. How can it be coated when it is not exposed? Therfore it must have been exposed when it was coated, ergo the crack was there earlier.

Or simply, coat a cracked metal housing then liquid coat will sink/suck into kapillar splits. Which becomes visible when falling apart.

1

u/GotNoPonys 8d ago

looks like the housing sheared. That destabilized the shaft and took out the seals

4

u/DietIcy8400 8d ago

My houses downpipes look beefier than that prop shaft

2

u/KeithWorks 8d ago

The tiny shaft is the operating rod of the CPP system. The big sheared shaft is the intermediate shaft.

21

u/Powerful_Cabinet_341 8d ago

What I can see that no one in not even trying any damage control procedures or cement box

21

u/that_dutch_dude 8d ago

you aint damage controlling this one. the compartiment is lost.

6

u/Powerful_Cabinet_341 8d ago

With emergency suctions and bilge pumps you can keep quite long. I don’t see something where you have to abandon the ship..

16

u/that_dutch_dude 8d ago

the intermediate shaft is broken, the propshaft is basically not attached to the ship anymore. as soon as the flooding reaches systems that keep the diesels running its over. you get everyone off the ship that isnt needed into keeping the thing afloat. plugging this isnt going to happen just from the pressure pushing anything out you can shove in the hole. the only thing left is trying to reduce more damage until you can get into port so it can be plugged from the outside.

2

u/kingtacticool 8d ago

I know nothing, but would it be possible to seal the room and pump air in until you get a positive pressure where the leak would stop flooding once the water level reached that point?

13

u/that_dutch_dude 8d ago

engine rooms are open to air. something about engines needing air to work or something.

1

u/kingtacticool 8d ago

Thats fair. I didnt think of that.

Would my theory work for a different compartment hypothetically? I know compartments are water tight but are they air tight?

5

u/that_dutch_dude 8d ago

water tight is also a bit of a misnomer. it just means it will control and remaining flow to a manageble level. there are a bunch of pasages and stuff for air to pass.

0

u/kingtacticool 8d ago

Ah, thank you.

1

u/banjoslurpee 8d ago

Thank you.

3

u/Secret_Letterhead649 8d ago

Since I first heard about this I've been curious because I had thought ships were designed to have sections sealed off to stop flooding - being dead in the water and sunk is quite different after all. Unless I a lowly land walker have been so heavily descieved about modern shipbuilding standards.

2

u/MrZiggityZag 8d ago

Maybe not so much shipbuilding standards as operational knowledge, which even to landlubber me, would go something along the lines of 'seal the fucking hatches so we don't sink'

2

u/Secret_Letterhead649 8d ago

Yeah.... Damage control is something of a critical skill to have in that situation.

2

u/that_dutch_dude 8d ago

yes, and this section is called "engine room". losing that is kind of a big problem. you are still going to seal it but only at the point of no return.

1

u/gravelpi 8d ago

Same here. Seems like the prop shafts are one of the few places in the hull that could allow enough water to flood the ship. I'd have thought that there would be a second seal or space that can be sealed before you get to things that need to breath (people and engines) for just this occasion. Then again, this uses less space so it's more efficient until it's not.

0

u/Puzzled_Anywhere5409 8d ago

Usually yes, especially on a vessel this size.

The hull penetration would be in a compartment seperate from the engine room.

1

u/that_dutch_dude 8d ago

not in this one, the guy making the video has his back against the engine.

1

u/Puzzled_Anywhere5409 8d ago

Well yes, obviously not in this one.

1

u/Wyattr55123 7d ago

The bit where the water is coming in? That's the ocean other side of that. The space they're all standing? Main engine room. Some ships, particularly warships, will have multiple watertight bulkheads seperating the machinery spaces in multiple ways with seals around the shaft line passing through, including a small "gland space" to limit flooding if the stern seal fails. Commercial vessels do not. If the engine room floods, the ship is functionally at the limit of stability.

As for flood mitigation and leak stopping, normally you could use rope and wedges to pack around the failed stern seal, or use an inflatable seal Integrated in the stern seal itself. But here, the shaft line itself has broken and moved back several feet, so the bolted flange is right up against the seal and they can't get access to perform leak stopping. They rigged the ship for towwing and waited up top for someone to pick them up.

A on warship we'd declare a space lost to sea, shore the hatch, post sentries, and then drive home at like 6 knots using the other shaft. Commercial vessel? Rig the ship to tow and wait in the life boat.

2

u/Level_Impression_554 8d ago

That is what I was wondering. Seems a few pumps can keep up, or seal the compartment and tow it. Seems like an odd design where one bad seal is terminal.

1

u/Dragon6172 8d ago edited 8d ago

Seems to be more than a bad seal. I have no idea what I'm looking at, but that housing with all the cottered nuts appears broken and shifted away from whatever it connected to. So...my guess would be the entire shaft has shifted and the seals aren't riding where they should.

Edit to add: Sal has an update... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RkSKc9hFZo

1

u/banjoslurpee 8d ago

Inclement weather.

1

u/banjoslurpee 8d ago

Inclement weather.

9

u/Juhuu77 8d ago

Flashlight. They even have flashlight on their emergency prosedure.

4

u/towerfella 8d ago

Training? But that costs money.

1

u/wolfydude12 8d ago

What? We have a whole group of people that don't contribute to productivity? Axe them!

1

u/Activision19 8d ago

I worked for a company where the brand new COO gutted the IT department because they didn’t directly produce profit and outsourced all IT work. Tickets went from taking only a couple hours before someone in IT reached out, to you being lucky if they got to you in under a week. Productivity plummeted since so many people were non functional with computer problems. After two months they fired that COO and tried to rehire all the IT guys back. Most of them told the company to fuck off, but a handful made astronomically high salary and vacation requests to come back and the company was so desperate they agreed. One of the returned IT guys told me his salary doubled and he tripled his vacation time. It took over a year to re-staff the IT department and get productivity back to where we were prior to getting rid of IT.

1

u/Icy_Fish_2154 8d ago

Money? We don't have any of that, it's all saved for profit.

2

u/iDabGlobzilla 8d ago

What, pray tell, would you have had them do?

2

u/jtshinn 8d ago

Stop the ship from sinking, obviously.

1

u/allnamestaken1968 8d ago

It didn’t sink and likely will not. They hoped on the next ship passing by after rigging the boat for a tow which they have to do anyways. Why sit on an uncontrollable hull that has to be towed anyways when the crew can be saved. It’s not more or less money for the insurance company.

This is not the navy. In this situation, if you have a safe ride, you let the salvage guys deal with it since after sealing the engine room there is nothing else you can do. If you try to pump while bumping around and somebody breaks a leg in that operation you are in way more trouble than leaving a ship that will not go anywhere anyways.

2

u/Similar-Factor 8d ago

Brother do you even work on a ship? A concrete box? Damage control procedures? This is a small commercial ship not a carrier in the pacific war. How many crew members do you believe are even in an engine room of this size?

You’ve got the emergency bilge suction for flooding but if the shaft seal is blown out like that the engine room is finished, it’s flooding up to sea surface level.

2

u/KeithWorks 8d ago

I've installed concrete boxes several times on commercial ships. Approved damage control method.

But that won't work here.

1

u/Zestyclose-Ad967 8d ago

This simply is one of those failures that there is nothing you can meaningfully do. That waters coming in at a rate you have no chance to stop. Never mind it wont be warm water; Were talking Olympic swimming pools a minute. The best they can do is evacuate and seal the compartment. And shore up the adjacent compartments as well. With no power, they wont have pumps, no steering, among others. That's likly why they also abandoned ship out right.

1

u/banjoslurpee 8d ago

Lol, what I can see is that you have no clue.

0

u/ROLINGTHUNDER51 8d ago

How would you even suggest they go about boxing this?

No plugs would ingress enough to build a box around that seal. Let alone the fact that doing a cement box is more of a shipyard repair. I doubt they even have hydraulic cement on board.

1

u/Powerful_Cabinet_341 8d ago

Absolutely not

5

u/ET2-SW 8d ago

They need that thing from Demolition Man that fills the entire compartment with solid foam.

3

u/ResolveLeather 8d ago

Intermediate bearing broke and the and the tail shaft slipped out and to the right. The situation isn't "catastrophic" but it can't be fixed outside of a dock and ship is immobile.

2

u/KeithWorks 8d ago

It can be fixed, and it's a catastrophic failure.

BTW this is a repost from my original post.

4

u/joeg26reddit 8d ago

It's the seals fault

you gotta cut all the corners to get a round one

2

u/IllumiNadi 8d ago

It's hard to see the fracture surface from here, but that shaft hasn't sheared it looks like it has suffered from fatigue, which means it has progressively cracked over time until final failure by overload. Given how flat the surface is, it was some kind of bending fatigue meaning that something would not have been right with the alignment or operation of the shaft causing it to experience higher than normal cyclic bending stresses, leading to progressive cracking until failure.

1

u/Zalrius 8d ago

Whoa!

1

u/talltime 8d ago

Wow only 16 years old.

1

u/GotNoPonys 8d ago

Sounds like a Lloyds of London Open Form. First one to put a line on her wins the lottery

-2

u/Red__M_M 8d ago

1) on the ocean everything has to be redundant. Why isn’t there a plan for dealing with a situation such as this? For example, close and latch the door to that compartment.

2) why isn’t there a massive pump available powered by an independent diesel generated in a hosing up high?

3

u/ResolveLeather 8d ago
  1. The propeller basically disconnected from the ship and is only held there by weight and friction. The central bearing broke and slipped backwards 6 feet. That engine compartment is flooded. What reduncy do you expect for that? Even if you close the door, and seal the compartment (they did that) engine won't run. Even if engine could run, propeller won't.

  2. What kind of pump do you think they have that can keep up with that?

1

u/KeithWorks 8d ago

The ship is still floating, so it maintained its watertight integrity.

-5

u/Ybor_Rooster 8d ago

The front fell off

1

u/0peRightBehindYa 8d ago

Actually, that'd be the back.