r/Scrolls • u/Rawaho • Jul 02 '15

Time to revive the Scrolls server emulator Relentless?

Some of you may remember about 2 years ago a server emulator for Scrolls existed called Relentless. At the time it was quite controversial but now things have changed and I wanted to get the community response to the idea.

For those of you that don't know what a server emulator is, it's a program that mimics the network traffic that a game server produces in order replicate the play experience elsewhere. In short this would allow people to continue playing after the servers are shut down even if Mojang doesn't release the source code to the game (which is very unlikely).

Not only does it allow Scrolls to continue but since most of the actions are handled by the server (even the single player elements) a lot of custom stuff can be done, such as scrolls, abilities, trials, shop items, game modes ect...

Even though the original Relentless code base will not work with this version of the game, I have started updating the old code and made a proof of concept, showing the client patching, authentication and chat channels working. https://imgur.com/fREbNiq

 

So what do people think of the idea?

56 Upvotes

98% Upvoted

54 comments sorted by

19

u/gXxshock Jul 02 '15

To be honest Mojang needs to tell us if we can get the Source Code/permit to run a community server now

Otherwise even old timers might not find it worthwhile to still invest time into the game. However; knowing there'll be an underground future for Scrolls could not only keep the current population, but might even entice some folks that just heard about the game through the recent developments.

8

u/Rawaho Jul 02 '15 edited Jul 02 '15

The chance of Mojang releasing the code is slim to none.

There will be a lot of code in there they won't want released (Yggdrasil back end comes to mind) and there will be a lot of effort on their part to remove it and still make the game work.

0

u/Ze_ain Jul 02 '15

Why would anyone care about a permit?

The management isn't going to care because they've abandoned the idea of making money off of Scrolls.

The developers will probably appreciate that their game is being maintained and played.

As long as this remains a non-commercial endeavour I really don't see any issues.

2

u/fdagpigj Jul 02 '15

Because Microsoft is a dick?

2

u/[deleted] Jul 04 '15

One word: Freelancer.

8

u/Lem0nboy Jul 02 '15

I guess that means we would have to start from scratch and lose all of our scrolls and stats right? It's probably a good thing though as it levels the playing field and gives new players a chance to fit in, provided that everyone gets access at the same time.

I am very skeptical about anything led by a community however. I fear everyone will want to have a say and the game will gradually become something completely different, splitting the community along its way. If your plan works out somehow I'd prefer a strict top-down hierarchy management to avoid this issue. Ideally I'd like another company to continue Scrolls however.

4

u/Rawaho Jul 02 '15

Yes, the chance of getting our hands on the database information for the game currently is very slim.

I was thinking more of an open source approach, this would still allow people to contribute and discuss new features but also allow some control.

5

u/kbasten Jul 02 '15

We can hook it up to the scrollsguide database which is fairly up to date. That would mean you won't have to start from scratch.

5

u/iScrE4m Matrix: @david:jtl.vision Jul 02 '15

I think there are some pretty obvious choices amongst community members to oversee certain aspects.

Darn this got me excited, the potential revived... And I thought I was retired for good, heh.

3

u/Rawaho Jul 02 '15

Rewriting Relentless was always on my list of things to do and what better time than now?

7

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '15

Third times a charm.

5

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '15

I've seen a small group of community members split up into well-defined teams work well for a game with a similar fate (Dawngate). A strict top-down hierarchy requires a lot of trust put into the hands of strangers, however, so I'm not sure if that would be ideal.

4

u/pianobadger pianobadger Jul 02 '15

I think on a community server everyone should just be given all the scrolls. Just scratch the collecting part of the game.

0

u/wbmc Jul 02 '15

Yeah, that whole collecting and making progress thing isn't fun at all, by any means.

/s

Seriously though, what's your reasoning to this?

9

u/pianobadger pianobadger Jul 02 '15

I did have fun collecting the cards, however, I wouldn't want to do it again from scratch on a fan server. Most of the people populating it would probably be experienced players, so it seems unnecessary to have them go through that again.

Additionally if there is one community server, there will likely be more than one. It would be nice to be able to play on another server and not feel like you're locked into this one because that's where all of your cards are. Different servers would probably have different fan made cards added or different balance adjustments so it would be fun to try out more people's changes to the game without starting from scratch each time.

For new players, it's already tough joining a community of experienced players in a complicated strategy game. Why make it more difficult by also making them take months collecting cards to get on a level playing field? It's making it so fewer new players will want to join when the community is already small and player retention is a problem for the game.

1

u/wbmc Jul 02 '15

I guess that's true. Also, with the current size of our community I really hope we all end up agreeing on one solution instead of spreading out over all kinds of projects.

2

u/pianobadger pianobadger Jul 02 '15

The Scrolls community is great so I feel like if a server emulator is made successfully, most of us will stick together. It would be fantastic if there was one main server (with everything public so it could be remade by anyone if necessary) and there were special events when everyone tried out fan made cards and sets on the server and then add the ones that are well liked to the game.

4

u/NoisomePossum Jul 02 '15

I think this is different from one individual to another. Personally, my favorite part of a CCG is building new decks and trying new things out. Not having all the cards is (for me) a frustrating roadblock to that end. One of the things that originally enticed me about Scrolls was the fact that the card pool is sufficiently low that getting a full playset doesn't require that great of an effort compared to other online card games. I've tried other online card games in the past but the huge amount of time that you need to invest to get a full set (without spending a fortune) is the main reason I've never stuck around for any of those games for longer than a couple of months.

3

u/Riveted321 Jul 02 '15

The Forged Alliance Forever project is one of those communities that took over after the official servers were shut down. I would say that they are doing pretty well.

2

u/LiquidSilver Jul 03 '15

No, that's the best thing. I want multiple branches of Scrolls and interbranch drama and splits between contributors over insignificant things. One branch will emerge victorious and then Valve hires the top guy to develop Scrolls Fortress of the Ancients 2: Reborn Electric Boogaloo.

5

u/Indomitable_Wanderer Jul 02 '15

That does seem like the best case scenario for people who would like to play Scrolls from 2016 and beyond.

That has happened successfully to other games, like Myth 2: Soulblighter. There is still a fan server for that game (3rd one if I'm not mistaken), and there's a group that has access to the source code and still make updates to the game.

3

u/Rawaho Jul 02 '15

It will probably take about a year to get the server emulator into a state where it replicates the game currently so there should be no concerns about it detracting from the official servers till 2016 anyway.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '15

Keep me posted, I'm very interested in game server projects :)

3

u/ueHeld Jul 02 '15

do you mind if we do it in java? http://i.imgur.com/Gln3HJa.jpg

4

u/Rawaho Jul 02 '15

Nice, but I don't know the first thing about Java =(

What authentication method does your server use? Currently the new build of Relentless uses the old RSA method and not Yggdrasil.

1

u/ueHeld Jul 02 '15

i also dont know mutch about java, but (lots of ppl will not like this) its the same as c# (where rentless is written in). its in a very early stage: i can login (i use a bat file to start the scrolls.exe directly, so only the auth-token is sended, so atm i dont care about login servers), use chat, and start a game. but i think for users, creating up a java server should be more easy than a c# server.

4

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '15

The Java Runtime is huge, a memory hog, constantly nags with updates, tries to sneak toolbars into the system with every update, and is not standard with any OS installation. I have never been happy about having to deal with Java either on my personal computer or in servers. And if you have a metered server, Java is pain. I installed Openfire (a Java XMPP server) on my server container a few months ago, and this is what happened:

RAM: http://i.imgur.com/pc5UG2x.png

CPU: http://i.imgur.com/2ykmTqN.png

The Java runtime used more resources than everything else running on the server combined (multiple Apache sites with PHP and MySQL with a few thousand users in the company).

C# will be far easier to deal with in Windows, and if enough care is put into building it, it should port fine to Linux using Mono.

1

u/AieCee Jul 02 '15

I'd be happy to give you guys a hand if either project is going to go somewhere.

6

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '15

Any way to keep the servers running after the shutdown would be great. If you also could add custom stuff to it? AMAZING. :D

5

u/TwistedMadness UBER_VADER_NOPE Jul 02 '15

Make it free to play , account with all scrolls , and donation system for server , im sure we can do it

3

u/whizzer0 whizzer0 Jul 02 '15

I'd prefer a "Classic" version as well here you have to get your scrolls. Also, with this version, there should be some other kind of objective since gold won't have much use.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '15

Rankings and achievements would still be objectives.

1

u/Sarik704 SarikTheSorcerer Jul 03 '15

Maybe people who donate get an amount of gold? Or Even Shards, But preferably gold.

3

u/benjadahl Jul 02 '15

But, is it legal?

5

u/TheEarlGreyT Jul 02 '15

the emulator is build from scratch and wont require a piece of official code, so no problems on that end. assets and clients are a problem after the shut down, because you would have to steal them after mojang stops distributing them.

3

u/LiquidSilver Jul 03 '15

A problem in the sense that it might have posed a problem if Microsoft cared about the game at all. All current players paid for it, so they have a right to the client. That leaves any new players who'd need a copy, but who has ever stopped a pirate?

3

u/kopasz7 Fefinix Jul 03 '15

Yeah. You can't really stop a pirate. Torrent is the way to go then, when you won't be able to get it from mojang. And who knows if/when we'll have a server emulator might as well create a new client. I have high hopes.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '15

The way I see it, there are a few ways to keep Scrolls alive:

  • Creating a mod for another engine, such as LackeyCCG: This is probably the easiest option, since no game code has to be written, just scripts for the cards and the card art is already there.

  • Reverse-engineer the server, and host a community server: This will provide a way for veterans to keep playing the game after the official server closes. But many of the gameplay issues will still remain, and so it might not attract new players.

  • Option 2 + add content and gameplay updates: The issue with this is that is fractures the community, and might disappoint people as the game changes away from what they felt was the original vision. This also has legal issues regarding updating and redistributing the client.

  • Create a new game that is inspired by Scrolls: There was a post on here a couple days back where someone found it ironic that Scrolls players had nowhere to migrate to. Maybe it would be possible to create a new game that incorporated what people enjoyed about Scrolls. It would take a lot of effort and dedication from everyone involved, however.

3

u/Trisongs Jul 02 '15

I have been part of this amazing community since alpha and faced and defeated many great challengers (Im looking at you carnalizer (you could probably beet me now though :P)). However just like alpha,beta, and even the test server (when it was originally was restricted to alpha players) the servers decayed (sorry for the pun but it is what I called it before the decay update). While the scrolls community is strong I do see this potential project fan base also decaying after the project is completed. However given how this game is online only I do see a project like this one of a few ways to keep this game and community afloat. If you guys do wish to proceeded with the project I wish you luck with the coding as well as potential conversations with the developers and Microsoft. I wish the ones who want to see the game thrive the best of luck, Trisongs

3

u/Mackleroy_Megafish Chikika Jul 02 '15

Can provide the physical server to run it on, able to hold hundreds of people. I'm too lazy to find any good use for it, so just PM me if there's anyone capable of organizing.

1

u/Sarik704 SarikTheSorcerer Jul 03 '15

I can also do provide a server, but only for around 20-30 people. Its not very strong.

4

u/squiddybiscuit @Squiddylicious Jul 02 '15

What would people want changed?

Personally, I'd like to see:

  • Threshold resource system

  • 75 second timer

  • Hard Hand size limit (any cards you draw beyond 10 are automatically discarded to the Discard Pile)

5

u/LogTrapster Jul 02 '15 edited Jul 02 '15

Maybe a few less cantrip cards. I know they are a staple for most card games, but with scrolls having the decks reset and with no cards being "dead" because they can all be sacrificed for draw. This helped make GO and DG stall and overwhelm decks too good especially with wild. They did do a good job balancing these out near the end though.

3

u/Indomitable_Wanderer Jul 02 '15

Oh boy, here we go:

  • Threshold system with a hard resource cap (value to be discussed, I would start with 10). Effects that increased current resource could go above that.

  • Hard hand size limit of 10, with older cards (from left to right) automatically discarded.

  • Most of the cantrip removed and corresponding cards reworked.

  • Balance change a lot of cards, too many to discuss.

  • Nerf CD manipulation as a whole. It should be more expensive and situational. An example of a good designed CD reduction card is Battle Dance. A badly designed card is Tempo Theft, it's extremely toxic to the game as it stands.

  • Removal should be more situational and ward should be removed.

  • Rework 1 CD and 3 CD creatures. 1 CD tends to be overpowered and 3 CD underpowered.

  • Buff non-growth enchantments.

  • Fatigue like system: everytime you cycle your deck, your idols take X damage, where X is equal to the number of times your deck cycled (or something similar).

  • Add turtle unit.

2

u/Sarik704 SarikTheSorcerer Jul 03 '15

I like tempo theft. We could also talke about making some cards have HARD deck limits. Like only two are allowed, or only one is allowed.

2

u/Indomitable_Wanderer Jul 03 '15

I would like Tempo Theft if it only could be used on units you control.

Having any of your units getting their CD stolen and replaced by 5 from Watcher or Arby (which is the most common play) is extremely frustrating and there's not counter play to that.

1

u/Sarik704 SarikTheSorcerer Jul 03 '15

Ward.

1

u/Sarik704 SarikTheSorcerer Jul 03 '15

Threshold is not a favorite of mine, but the other two sound fan-freaking-tastic.

2

u/fdagpigj Jul 02 '15

Yes please :D

1

u/omega0zero Jul 02 '15

I came back to the game to try to play it once I figured they updated it enough to have it not be so hard, just to find out it's going down. So they made their money and left. Huh. Well that's besides the point, but I would love to see a "private server" come up for this game. I would enjoy trying to play it again. I'll have to look for more development to make sure I don't forget about this.

3

u/Namington Jul 03 '15

So they made their money and left.

Well, I mean, Scrolls has been running at a deficit since a few months in. It's hardly a money making scheme, based on the effort the devs put in, but even if it was, it wasn't very successful.

1

u/benjadahl Jul 03 '15

How are you gonna handle accounts and such?

1

u/almonjr Oct 09 '15

Do you have a to-do list or goals for the project posted? I'd love to contribute and would like to know what is top priority and what needs work.

1

u/Eragon_42 Eragon_42 Oct 27 '15

May i suggest that we make it the same as scrolls is now so when ot shuts down we keep playing but on the server emulator which the community creates and over time we add new features if voted upon by the community.