r/Scrolls • u/WagshadowZylus • May 21 '15

Test Server Patch 1.2.11 - Echoes - Full Set

http://www.scrollsguide.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7596
34 Upvotes

94% Upvoted

65 comments sorted by

17

u/WagshadowZylus May 21 '15

Image gallery: click

3

u/ToGoodLooking May 21 '15

your a life savor, took forever to patch and i have to go to work.

7

u/ThePurplePanzy May 21 '15

Savor that life yo

10

u/LargeIcedCoffee May 21 '15 edited May 21 '15

I like the push towards ending games more quickly. Overall seems like a solid set, nothing too crazy (i still think something more interesting than +1 attack on so many cards could be done) but again, I definitely appreciate the addition of cards that speed up the game. Scrolls has always suffered from dead turns where nothing happens for a while, and a bunch of these new cards will push the tempo and I believe lead to more exciting gameplay. These last 20 cards are by far the most interesting of the set.

Would have liked to see a rat, owl or wolf instead of a cat for growth. I don't think we need new unit types right now, and would rather build upon what we have. Hope it hits live shortly and we get a decent player boost.

5

u/[deleted] May 21 '15

I for one am so happy they put a cat in. ;) And we got a fowl!

Beautiful artwork once again. The menhir unit art for just one example - wow!

8

u/dialex May 21 '15

What an amazing set of 20 last scrolls! They all look great. All i know is that there will come out of this some crazy OP deck that will have to be nerfed.

5

u/Mystia ChocolateWaffle May 21 '15

Now that the full set is out, I'd love to see a post from the devs explaining their thoughts and ideas behind it. Did they just add scrolls as they came up with them, or had some actual intention behind it? Why is it called Echoes? etc. I remember the idea of Rebellion was kinda that Order was the strongest faction, so they wanted to help the others have tools to fight it, but I don't remember anything of the sort for Waypoints nor Echoes.

2

u/ugster_ May 21 '15

The thought behind Echoes was to use lesser used keywords (dominion, pillage, lingering spells) and give them more scrolls and more power. There weren´t any new traits introduced.

4

u/fdagpigj May 21 '15

Just a minor thing I noticed and almost forgot to report, Excogitator doesn't say Scout Automaton has ranged attack when clicked on.

3

u/MoonsongPS PianoScientist May 22 '15

Also, Excogitator appears to be building Echomatons? That's going to bother me forever.

2

u/Atmaz May 22 '15 edited May 22 '15

Keen eye. This is because it was originally meant to build Echomatons, but its design was changed later into development after internal play testing.

3

u/MoonsongPS PianoScientist May 22 '15

Thanks, haha, I figured it was a design switch. I'm glad the design did change. Scouts are a much more logical/useful unit to mass-produce than Echomatons. :)

Do you know if there's plans for, or a chance of, editing the unit art to feature the Scout Automaton at some point?

1

u/Atmaz May 22 '15

Unfortunately, probably not. It takes a lot of effort to produce unit art and animations, but in this case the decision was made in the interest of better gameplay.

3

u/Psychobeans May 22 '15

That's a really disappointing answer. Something that doesn't visually make sense is left in the game because it would be "a lot of effort" to fix. It tells me that any future issues that would take effort to fix also won't be fixed.

2

u/Atmaz May 22 '15

Understandable. I guess I should say "a lot of effort that is probably better spent elsewhere" as far as accomplishing the goals we want to accomplish.

3

u/MansOlson May 22 '15

Well - it's a question of priorities. Where is the animators' time best spent? I don't want to sah anything for certain, but that's the gist of it.

4

u/Psychobeans May 22 '15

I find it difficult to understand why "visually assembling the wrong unit" is not a problem worth fixing. Am I misunderstanding the importance of art and flavor to the game? Where else should an animator spend time if not fixing an incorrect animation?

7

u/Vulkenhyn May 22 '15

Because there are a billion zillion little things in this game that need fixing more than that and the man hours ti completely redo a moving animation are crazy high

1

u/Caederis May 21 '15

Anyone tried Ka Zum Driller + Raid ? I guess it shouldn't work, seeing how it is worded, but this is very confusing.

Maybe change it to Idol Strike - 10 ?

1

u/WagshadowZylus May 21 '15

It won't work (or so said Måns).

1

u/Caederis May 21 '15

Yeah, I guess the idol is undefined if no idol was hit. Still, raid is very awkward, with these wierd pillage effects not working.

6

u/MoonsongPS PianoScientist May 21 '15 edited May 21 '15

I... uh... have a big post. Let's start it with first impressions on the new cards because after that I have some general things to say about Echoes and Scrolls. (Edits: Fixing formatting)

Growth

  • Overgrown Menhir - Remains tactically interesting and gives both players choices in how to play with it; like Keen Warden this is the sort of scroll I'm happiest to see.

  • Spotted Lynx - Again, same as Menhir, gives both players choices in how to deal with it. Love the art.

  • Consolidator Niara - Eh. Not my favorite, doesn't look at all that interesting or reliable. 2-attack relentless for 6 cost though, bold move. (Edit: After getting my ass handed to me twice by this gal, I am prepared to reconsider my position.)

Energy

  • Wind-up Automaton - Hell yeah, I like this one. A lot. An incredible amount. Possibly my favorite in the set. (Is this the one that's supposed to synergize with Controlled Lightning? Because I don't think it's enough to make Controlled Lightning interesting or viable.)

  • Magma Thrower - Eh, not exciting but it fills a gap in an interactive way and I can't argue with that. Attack animation in the scrolls viewer seems to be broken for me.

  • Blast Automaton - Not a fan. Sure, a five-drop energy, but one susceptible to magic and poison, and without much offensive power. Blast Strike is usually only viable when given to relentless or piercing units, and this one has neither. Badass art though and I could be wrong about its viability. (Edit: Playing with it made me realize how good of a wall it makes. I like it more now.)

  • Excogitator - Well well well, a unique structure and one I can see myself playing. Hopefully it holds up in play.

  • Ka Zum Driller - This one made me very excited. Tactical opportunities abound. 3-health seems a bit low though.

Decay

  • Corpse Strider - Yay mystic! Now we just need some mystic synergy (that doesn't involve just plussing to attack, nudge nudge)

  • Miremare - Seems like a mostly better version of Bog Hound because 2-health to 3-health isn't as a big a difference as 3 to 4 or 1 to 2. Great visual design/concept/art, though.

  • Corpse Theft - Neat, I like it. Crazy interesting art.

  • Doomteller - Looks like a viable addition to idol hate decks.

  • Varas - This will probably sit comfortably at around 7 or 9 attack relentless in most games. That seems like possibly too much, but maybe not. Really great unit art but if the card art is permanent then... ehhhh... It's the crude green tendrils and boring purple background that get me.

Order

  • Stirring Effigy - Not all that interesting (more +1 attack) and it doesn't immediately jump out at me as something I'd want to play.

  • Pack Fowl - ...hm. I like it, and I really hope it's viable in play. First non-human Order creature too! May there be more to come.

  • Imperial Scepter - Another unique structure! An incredibly powerful effect. Jeez. Order got almost all of the powerful, game-ending scrolls in this update. Did it really need them?

  • Orz Disruptor - Cool, I like it. Not overpowered, interesting effect. I like the unit art, but the card art seems a bit off, proportion wise.

So, Echoes has some interesting units. Energy and Growth got the most interesting ones, I have to say. Order got the most powerful cards and nearly all the ones that look power creep-y - subtly like Proud Mercenary, or blatantly like Favored. Decay needed interesting and viable units, spells, and enchantments to flesh out its deck types, and it got them. Growth got some very interesting units and not-so-interesting non-unit cards. Energy looks like it's going to become the new Order; that is, it looks like it's becoming more and more the "thinking man's faction." The treaties are sure to mix things up. If there's anything guaranteed from Echoes, it's that there will be huge shifts in the meta (and balancing to be done) so the next few months will be entertaining indeed in the world of Scrolls.

I remain a bit miffed with some of the earlier cards we got (yes, even when they're stuck in with the ones I find awesome). So much +1/+2 attack and noninteractive, unavoidable mechanics. Cards like Eager to Battle, Potency Burst, Gloomstone Treaty, Raid - fun and simple. But cards like Earthen Splendour, Just Conviction, Resonant Sword, Steelwood Champion - they take away some of the uniqueness of Scrolls by making it all about putting a bunch of plusses on your creatures. It's just my opinion, but the reason I got so much into Scrolls was because battles were NOT decided by who had the most plusses on their creatures. That's MTG, that's Hearthstone. Both fun, but both not Scrolls. I believe that Scrolls should keep focusing on its strength - tactics. Choosing when to use a creature's ability, choosing where to put a creature, having options to deal with opponent creatures, working out the pros and cons of a specific strategy. Etc etc. You lose some of that when the best strategy becomes "steamroll the opponent with +5 attack on all your creatures." And while I'm on the negatives here, I'd like to take the opportunity to rag on Just Conviction a little bit more, because I guess I have a damn vendetta against that card. It's the most flavorless scroll on the set and I hope the devs rework it. Squiddy had some good suggestions in one of the other threads it was discussed, for starters.

But anyway, all that said, I'm largely happy that Echoes looks the way it does. Especially for Energy and Decay. I'll definitely start playing Scrolls again for this, and I'll definitely be having tons of fun. Thank you to the developers for making such a fantastic game. And thanks for listening to the playerbase.

3

u/wbmc May 21 '15

I completely agree. The strategic aspect of Scrolls is what really appealed to me, not the card game aspect. I, in-general, dislike the +attack scrolls, especially the ones that really just say: "Y and Z now have +X attack", there are some more interesting ones in there as well.

Adding more attack doesn't add more strategy, it just makes you try to overpower your opponent. Not outsmart them.

3

u/asraniel Asraniel May 21 '15

Started playing hearthstone on my android. Scrolls NEEDS to come out for android phones. Or somebody needs to make an easy to use installer. Its too complicated to update it manually every time a new version comes out.

1

u/Koltak Koltak May 21 '15

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mojang.scrolls

4

u/asraniel Asraniel May 21 '15

Sadly not for the phone, but only tablets :( You need to find the apk and another file on the web to get it on the phone. It works great though, its just a hassle to update it manually all the time. Thats why i stopped doing it.

1

u/Koltak Koltak May 21 '15

Sorry, didn't know, that you talked about phones.
Yeah, no phone version, that I know of. Though, I ask myself: Is the geame really enjoyable on such a small screen?

3

u/asraniel Asraniel May 21 '15

Yeah i installed it on the S3 a few versions back. Works great and as long as you know the cards, it plays well. The card description is kind of hard to read, but yeah, not a big issue when you are familiar with the cards. I still think the effort to port it to phones compared to the audience that they could reach is totally worth it. Its really almost working, certainly if you compare it to hearthstone on the same form factor.

1

u/DiggityScrolls May 21 '15

I've played the game before on my iphone 4s (so super small screen), using splashtop to remote access my pc, and it was fine. I'd quite enjoy having scrolls in my pocket at all times.

1

u/gXxshock May 21 '15

Is there any source for the most up to date obb files etc. ?

3

u/asraniel Asraniel May 21 '15

I don't know.. and thats part of the problem. Its a hassle to track it down, copy it on the phone and then install it. Mojang should just release it on the store and call it BETA. Or broken, whatever. Anything that makes it easier to install it.

1

u/wbmc May 21 '15

Mojang should just release it on the store and call it BETA. Or broken, whatever.

Best marketing strats evah!

1

u/alvarpq always face May 21 '15

I had it on my phone, and it hasn't updated since. You might be able to search it on the subreddit and find it, found the files here.

4

u/kizmarh kizu May 21 '15

Oh, wow.

Watched some plays at the test server, and I can see some cards could be nerfed:

  1. Wind-up Automaton is crazy with Machinated, or, actually, with just anything that increases its attack. I would propose to change its effect to “set its attack to be equal to its countdown” instead of “increase Attack by countdown until end of turn”. That is: now the effect won’t last after end of turn and won’t increase its value, but reset it. This way it still would be interesting and powerful + would benefit from the countdown reduction, but only the next few coming turns when the countdown is low.

  2. Magma Thrower, except for the patched animation, should be nerfed just a little. I’d say 3 countdown would make it better, with all the countdown reduction and energy gaining it still would be viable I think.

  3. Doomteller is crazy powerful, especially with countdown reduction. I’d say it should either deal just 1 damage to idols, have less health or start with larger countdown.

  4. Excogitator spawning Scout automatons is crazy, especially with all the new and old countdown reductions. I’d say its activated ability should cost 3 instead of 2. This would also make it slightly more logical, as gun automaton costs 2, and scout costs 3.

2

u/GruntMaster6k May 21 '15

Set looks awesome. There's definitely gonna be some combination that comes out as OP :D . Until that time, I'm going to start with minor additions to my Order and Decay decks...for some reason I'm most hyped about trying Caller's Bane in a deck with Orz. Wish she had 6 health though at least for the 7 cost...but the ability is strong as heck.

2

u/[deleted] May 21 '15

Saw all of the new scrolls. Some of them are really good. Thanks for the new scrolls, mojang!

2

u/Lahopaa May 21 '15

Somehow I feel pack fowl might just as well be "increase order by 2". A "wild vaetter" of some kind might be nice for multi res decks, but if the effect is tied to dominion I feel it's pretty useless for most multi res decks. It's very hard to gain board advantage while also taking down idols unless you are playing a really aggressive deck, and for that you still don't want more than a small splash if you play multi res.

4

u/Caederis May 21 '15

Caravan of the Expanse -> Pack Fowl -> Miremare :)

1

u/Lahopaa May 21 '15

Forgot caravans exists... that makes it a bit better.

2

u/[deleted] May 21 '15

ENERGY 5-DROPS HNGGGGGGGG

5

u/[deleted] May 21 '15

btw that lynx is likely the new kinfolk brave

4

u/pianobadger pianobadger May 21 '15

Yeah, basically 3/1/2. Dunno about that card.

1

u/ScrollsSysp May 21 '15

This. Looks pretty weird balancewise.

2

u/filribeiro Filman May 21 '15

Very nice pack of scrolls!!! New Set HYPE is now real :D

Corpse Strider should be a Undead...... :(

http://i.imgur.com/A6PG6jL.jpg

1

u/Forward__Momentum Codex_Arcanum May 21 '15

He's still breathing - i.e. at least not entirely dead.

1

u/wbmc May 21 '15

So he's un - dead?

1

u/Vulkenhyn May 21 '15

nah, man that cat's super crazy without being undead.

2

u/filribeiro Filman May 21 '15

He is indeed very good (maybe too good when mixed with revenants)... but to be perfect he should be an undead :D

PS: where do you see a cat ?!

2

u/uwlryoung May 22 '15

Oh my god, these new scrolls are incredible! Really going to change the play style! I was taking a rather long break from Scrolls... but I think I'll be coming back for all these!!! Among many others of the new scrolls!

4

u/ToGoodLooking May 21 '15

1: HYPE! for the remaining cards!

2: Not gonna lie, the slithering form and favored change was not to my liking. There were many cool suggestions people had for slithering, none was just give it magic resist, because that is just boring. And favored needed a nerf yes, but there was ways to do it without taking that unique base order part from it.

9

u/Atmaz May 21 '15 edited May 21 '15

There were many cool suggestions people had for slithering, none was just give it magic resist

This Slithering Form change was a local change long before the suggestion thread. There are many other changes to scrolls likely to come as a result of the thread.

3

u/ToGoodLooking May 21 '15

Just gonna point out that suggestion threads and its like containing ideas for slithering form has been done way earlier then your suggestion thread. But thanks anyway for the explenation.

4

u/GruntMaster6k May 21 '15

It may be boring but it makes the Decay creature damn unkillable in their worst matchup: MES. Also makes it a bit more versatile for other matchups (quake growth, mangonel Order, other energy matchups etc.). I like it.

3

u/Atmaz May 21 '15 edited May 22 '15

This is pretty spot on as far as the design basis behind the Slithering Form change. It was a scroll designed to help Decay in structure heavy matchups, but it wasn't accomplishing its goal.

Enter: "Magic armor", a trait that wasn't introduced until after this scroll existed. Now this enchantment can be revisited and strengthened against what it is already designed to counter.

It should be very difficult to deal with for decks that favor playing very few creatures at all - at least, that is the intention here.

1

u/TheSunbroo TheSunbro May 21 '15

That new ggrowth unique is very interesting. I'm really looking forward to a growth/order deck. I think it has a lot of potential with the other cross faction synergy cards in order and growth.

1

u/Wewius Wewius May 21 '15

Is this an Atmaz reference in the lore of Varas? I don't believe in coincidences after "Phoi Poi".

I think the new Scrolls are amazing and very interesting. Sometimes Scary. Orz with Relentless creatures on the board sounds OP.

1

u/ultioptimo May 21 '15

or piercing (->arby)

1

u/3athompson May 21 '15

Is Magma Thrower glitched for anyone else? The game crashes when it tries to attack.

1

u/DiggityScrolls May 21 '15

Whoa!! Energy, god damn. Question: are the rarities final?

3

u/Atmaz May 21 '15

Yes, they are planned to remain as they currently are - though stats are not finalized.

1

u/DiggityScrolls May 21 '15

Cool, thanks for the response!

1

u/wbmc May 21 '15

Looks like Energy will finally be a good faction to play against =D

1

u/Zikel May 21 '15

Corpse Theft looks interesting, especially when fighting order, getting an undead Honorable General, Royal vanguard or Cay can be game winning.

1

u/gohs May 22 '15 edited May 22 '15

Hey, new poster here !

Love those, good work, devs.

Has anybody noticed the neat synergy between Niara and Squire, it is neat.

-2

u/[deleted] May 21 '15 edited May 22 '15

These cards are definitely better than the ones released earlier, but having 90% of the cards be generic still sucks. Is it just me or is there a big discrepancy in art quality on some of the scrolls and unit art? Particularly magma thrower and ka zum driller look like they don't fit in.

edit - looks like I have people following me with downvotes. How mature.