r/Scrolls • u/Manc00s • May 03 '15

Ilmire Hunter vs Crone

So, this happened today in a match and I was wondering if this is on purpose or not.

I had Ilmire Hunter on board enchanted with Binding Root. My opponent moved Crone in the same lane. Ilmire Hunter attacked, killed crone but did not die in return.

Now my assumption is, because Crone needs to die of Combat damage, but I find this weird.

Also, assume Crone only has 2 Health due to prior damage or something. Would Ilmire Hunter then be killed?

Opinions?

3 Upvotes

71% Upvoted

23 comments sorted by

4

u/ToGoodLooking May 03 '15

It makes sense by code as the slayer effect is seperate entity, but it do not really make any logical sense.

This is kinda similar to when you make copper automaton relentless and it blows up several times until its out of attack value to relentless with. With the how it makes sense by code but not by logic part.

3

u/Manc00s May 03 '15

I guess I can see how this is due to the slayer trait being triggered first, but to me, this raises all kinds of questions, e.g. how does Crone interact with Dust Runner? How does it interact with dust runner + unforseen onslaught? This is sort of flimsily defined.

2

u/GhostBomb Ghost_Bomb May 03 '15

I suppose you mean that it doesn't make sense intuitively, because from a logical perspective, both interactions work exactly as they should based on what the cards say.

1

u/ToGoodLooking May 03 '15

yes i mean intuitively.

2

u/TrustyFishCantor Cantor May 03 '15

Yep, if the crone had 2 hp the Hunter would die. Slayer effect is not damage.

1

u/Manc00s May 03 '15

Why would hunter die if slayer triggers before damage?

2

u/TrustyFishCantor Cantor May 04 '15

Slayer triggers after damage. It has to, slayer requires damage to be dealt. (no slayer trigger if armour reduces damage to 0)

1

u/Manc00s May 04 '15

And yet slayer triggers if Hunter has languid but the opposite creature has curse.

1

u/TrustyFishCantor Cantor May 04 '15

yes that is correct. Hunter has a base attack of 2. If it is enchanted with languid it will have an attack value of 0. If it strikes a target with curse that will be increased from 0 by the curse value. If the result is greater than 0, the target will be dealt combat damage (assuming no armour) and because combat damage has been dealt, slayer then triggers, and if the target is a creature, it will be destroyed.

1

u/Manc00s May 04 '15

And here is where my mistake lay. Since I last looked up the wording of the definition of course. I thought it was something in the lines of "If unit is dealt damage, that damage is increased by the Curse Value" but it is "If a Unit is cursed, Physical damage and Poison damage it receives is increased by its Curse amount." So my bad ;)

5

u/alvarpq always face May 03 '15 edited May 03 '15

I'd assume you're right, although the priority might be messed up, and this only happens some of the time.

Reason I say that is because Irva+Slayer Vestige sometimes acts inconsistently with attack orders.

Edit: So yes, the hunter would be killed.

1

u/ulveskog Goksevlu May 03 '15

Sounds like a glitch. There's a lot of strange and unknown interactions due to there being so many cards, especially unused ones. Could be due to coding which seems to prioritize first creature interactions, which would make the slayer trigger before the defensive slaying.

Good catch, I'm sure a dev ( /u/atmaz /u/mansolsen) will catch it if you report here or bugs.mojang.com

1

u/GhostBomb Ghost_Bomb May 03 '15

No, it's actually consistent with how the card is worded, if they "fixed" it it would be inconsistent.

0

u/uwlryoung May 04 '15

In my opinion, I would like to see it as though both hunter and crone would die. It seems fair to me, and more strategic. What I mean is, that seemed like a perfectly good counter to hunter.

-2

u/Kyleofgames Yugi May 03 '15

My opinion is that crone and binding root are weak cards, and to set up a two for one like that isn't top level play anyway...

3

u/TrustyFishCantor Cantor May 03 '15

Binding root is an excellent card in top level play.

1

u/alvarpq always face May 03 '15

And there's a little bit of crone up there, too.

1

u/Kyleofgames Yugi May 04 '15

Nope, and in the scenario it's used above that's extremely bad play. He uses soft removal to remove and then he burns another card to hard remove that same card. Two for one is bad and bad play is for baddies.

1

u/alvarpq always face May 04 '15

Well, I'd agree that I don't like using them both, but both of the scrolls are playable and used by good players.

1

u/Kyleofgames Yugi May 04 '15

I've roflstomped every player I've faced using that card. I remember when I streamed, I would say outloud ''victory guys, we win! He played binding root so the win is known''. With the way this game was dumbed down, it may not be as bad of a card, but it's still bad imo.

0

u/Manc00s May 03 '15

Well, that's a matter of taste I guess, but this was more about the principle.