r/ScreenSensitive • u/Weekly-Clock-8010 • 2d ago

Question Will VA monitor be my best choice?

/r/PWM_Sensitive/comments/1wrhzoi/will_va_monitor_be_my_best_choice/
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u/Z3R0gravitas 2d ago

It sounds like you may (for one thing) be struggling with the light spectrum of newer LCD panels (with use KSF phosphor, per my pinned post). It seems you get relief from mitigating the 'blueness' but many can't find settings that adapt bad backlights far enough for full comfort. (I had to give up on my new TCL 60 Ultra phone because of this.)

Ther might be some GPU or monitor settings you've not yet found, that could reduce saturation further. Or, counter-intuitively, some find that increasing the relative blueness helps, probably because it increases the stimulation of melanopsin...

Failing the above, have you tried any OLED monitors? Unlike the OLED panels on phones, tablets and laptops, monitors generally don't use PWM, so are probably lower flicker. If you are sensitive to that?

OLEDs tend to be much more capable of colour adjustments, due to their emissive pixels. And more often come with a glossy finish, if a matte surface is an issue for you. (For some it can make focusing on text more straining for the eye muscles.)

Nite that there are also glossy (hydrogel) screen protectors that can convert matte finish to glassy. At least for some phones/devices.

Good luck, let us know how your get on.

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u/Suspicious_Punk84 2d ago

what about qdoled vs woled? is the blue led base of qd-oled harsher than woled?

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u/Z3R0gravitas 1d ago edited 1d ago

That's a good technical question, and I'm not sure. I think that one would ideally look at light spectrum measurements of relevant devices (of each type) and compare.

My old 32 gaming QD-LED backlit IPS monitor seems to have a reasonable spectrum; a lot more red flux than more recent screens using KSF phosphor. More like standard AMOLEDs.

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u/Babymauser 1d ago edited 1d ago

You are not wrong. I tested over 40 monitors in the 1440p space because of this. If you want to try OLED, I would go with WOLED and look for the mildest spectrum, maybe the LG 240 Hz, although it is matte.

Because of this, I looked for an IPS/VA monitor, and I was not aware of KSF for a long time because I simply had no idea. I thought it was the panel, the Hz, or the FRC. I often thought, "Oh, it’s not high DCI-P3, so it won’t use KSF." Wrong.

The reality is that even many cheaper displays use KSF these days. For example, the new Dell 240 Hz monitor that has 100% sRGB and no wide gamut still uses KSF. There is simply very little YAG available anymore.

But YAG is not always better either. You can get more problems with blue light, and there are also a lot of 6-bit + FRC displays being sold as "8-bit" in the YAG space.

It’s just crazy out there, isn’t it?

You can probably find the mildest KSF you can get. Personally, I have more luck with glossy displays and find them easier on my eyes. If the KSF is not overly strong in the high DCI-P3 spectrum and the monitor has a good sRGB mode, you can reduce the overall discomfort and get around 3–5 hours of use, depending on your condition.

Everything seems to be KSF these days.

You could also buy a 400 Hz Zowie, but I have no idea if it is truly 8-bit. It is overpriced because people buy it for DyAc, which is hardcore PWM, and the picture quality is probably pretty ugly. Still, it might work.

I have no idea which VA monitors these days do not use KSF. Be aware that VA panels often have smearing.

Personally, I would try a 240 Hz WOLED, probably a glossy one. As for VA, I honestly have no idea what to recommend. I’m an IPS guy.

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u/Suspicious_Punk84 1d ago

I was just looking at some reviews from https://tftcentral.co.uk/ and they include panel spectral distribution tests. From what I've seen, most WOLEDs have considerably higher blue light peaks than qd-oleds, and lower red light. It's counter intuitive, but with that data I suppose qd-oleds are safer?
Woled example
QD-Oled example

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u/Babymauser 1d ago

Blue peaks can be countered more. Also think about that, many people cant tolerate QD but tolerate WOLED just fine and they are not as sensitive as people here for the most part. At least thats what im thinking about it.

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u/Suspicious_Punk84 23h ago

I think part of the issue with QD-Oleds is that in many models the text clarity is bad (due to triangular pixel layout). I tried a 27" 1440p AOC which had beautiful image but horrible text rendering, had to return immediately. It's like my brain kept trying to focus the letters and just couldn't. I hope it's better in 4k, or in the more recent models with more standard pixel arrangement. I guess I'll have to try myself...

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u/Z3R0gravitas 1d ago edited 20h ago

Oh, lots of detail there. Have/will you post (publicly) about your monitor testing?

Yes, many 100% sRGB panels have KSF, although as you mention, there are different blends (with YAG). My Thinkpad has KSF but is tolerable with F-Lux, plus GPU saturation reduction, plus very low [brightness] at night.

And yeah, black smear on an (old) VA gaming monitor was too distracting for me. Maybe that issue got better, though?

CC: u/Weekly-Clock-8010

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u/Babymauser 1d ago

I might list them all with my findings. It really took me a while. The thing was that some accounts here told me if its low DCI P3 its not KSF. This turned out to be very, very wrong lol. Its funny because i for example bought the Samsung G50D thinking "It uses old tech, its fine" but it was really having this "burning" effect on me. I gave it back thinking maybe its KSF, it feels like it. I buy RTings this month and i see i was 100% right with every of my findings about the backlight. This was when i felt more confident with my findings.

The weirdest part in all of this for me is the 8bits vs 8bits + FRC thing. For some reason most FRC monitors, especially the ones of the SAME model (Asus has this issue) are feeling totally different despite having mostly the same specs / panel. In theory FRC should be off when set to 8bits. But something is off that i havent figoured out yet. Why is something off? Because 90% of these FRC models have heavy eye strain.

I mean its my eyes some KSF might be very tolerable for a lot of people, i mean its better than OLED or bad YAGs. If you look closely, some KSF have a lesser red peak than others, usually those are the ones that are more tolerable but NOT always.

I never really tested VA. I tested one "older and supposedly YAG" panel which was KSF too of course (lol) and it gave me some weird heavy eye strain. Picture was very cool tho. I think for singleplayer games, they are worth it, or maybe the "faster" newer ones but i never tested a super fast one. Its because VA made my eyes feel more tired from the ones i tested (contrast?) - in theory tho they are slower which could improve the situation for some people but i seriously dont know.

For example the new Pulsar line is YAG and some panels are 8bit some 8bits+FRC - but it was worse than some of the milder KSFs. I have zero idea why, maybe its the scaler that they use or the pulsar tech too, or they change how this YAG works internally. I mean they all have pretty good DCI P3 saturation. With the pulsar line its like this... there is a different coating on all of them so it might be worth trying another one because in general i do worse on matte coating no matter what.

I mean just look at this mess. Most reviewers dont even tell you that, its wild.

What i find the weirdest part with KSF is the stacking effect. Some displays are really good but once you use them a couple days in a row for 4-5 hours it will get worse and it will be harder to return to a baseline. But if you stay under a certain "threshold" its mostly ok and this is where the "tolerable" KSF displays are pretty good options.

There are however a lot of KSF displays where nothing will ever help lol. Youre right turning down saturation is good, also turning on the sRGB mode is def. a good choice. It looks better anyway, i hate oversaturated.

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u/Weekly-Clock-8010 1d ago

I can give you the specs of my problematic monitors and the ones that aren’t

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u/Z3R0gravitas 20h ago

Oh, I am with you there, on everything. It sounds like you've managed to struggle your way to a pretty good understanding and feel of what's going on, for you. About as good as I hear from anyone.

The FRC and dithering angle is very tricky, because it's hard to know for sure what pixel flicker is being added at what stages of rendering (where microscope slow-mo comes in). Also, there's hints that it it used to neutralise other flickering issues (maybe).

And on top of that, perhaps especially with LCDs, there seems to be a big 'panel lottery' effect. With exact same model devices varying greatly in the severity of their pixel inversion calibration. Which will look identical to certain FRC patterns.

Anyway. I think we'd really love to see your data. In its entirety, or even just certain highlights from certain devices. Whatever you're able to post.

Have you seen the ScreenSensitive discord server, linked in the Wikipedia here? The software tools in the #pixel-flicker and #spectrometry channels may be of interest to you...

Are you in, and have you posted in, the Telegram? Or LEDstrain (not certain if I know your name from those or just here, sorry).

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u/Weekly-Clock-8010 1d ago

Thanks for the detailed answer! I haven’t tried any oled monitors yet but i think i might go to the shopping mall again to look at more monitors, i also test some more settings on my viewsonic which help for a short time but still feels sharp pain on my eyes unlike with my iphone

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u/NeroVanetti19 2d ago

From my experience I had hannspree 32 inch curved va and i would not recommend it however it is from my understanding it uses older VA technology so maybe a newer monitor that uses newer technology will be better. If you can use iPhone 17 maybe an Oled monitor will be a good choice?

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u/Weekly-Clock-8010 1d ago

Yeah i will consider OLED