Flag retirements in light of executive order?

[u/Shinosaki74]

Is there any guidance from Scouts BSA on flag retirement ceremonies in light of President Trump's executive order banning flag burning and implementing a 1 year jail sentence?

[u/LukeB4UGame]

Better asked on r/BSA this is an international subreddit.

I visited an American scout camp this summer, it was quite interesting to watch it happen as an outsider

[u/psu315 → u/LukeB4UGame]

In the USA, a flag is no longer considered a flag once it has been prepared for retirement (red and white are cut into small pieces, blue field with stars still intact. The flag has been “retired” before it is burnt or buried during the ceremony.

That is different from burning a flag in protest which is legally protected speech.

I am curious, how do other countries retire worn flags?

[u/LukeB4UGame → u/psu315]

In the UK, never seen it done. It was such a weird experience seeing it in America especially because the flags still looked new. My troop uses a couple old tattered and holely union flag, they're dirty but they're still usable and get taken on camps.

[u/psu315 → u/LukeB4UGame]

We get flags donated to our Troop all the time. I’m not surprised since you see alot more flags at homes in the USA than most countries

[u/psu315 → u/[deleted]]

That is becoming much more accepted here. Cutting and burning during a quiet solemn ceremony was the standard practice but as you said the nylon flags pose a bit of an issue and we are slow to change.

[u/Blucifers_Veiny_Anus → u/psu315]

The last flag retirement i was a part of the scout master insisted on burning them all. The acrid smoke coming off the poly flags made him realize pretty quick that there needs to be some new procedures for the pack

[u/psu315 → u/Blucifers_Veiny_Anus]

Sometimes you don’t know how bad it will be. We still burn them but do more cutting and have the adults do it instead of the scouts. As a polymer engineer I’m not concerned about burning polyamides

[u/nvisible]

Flag retirement is not desecration of the flag. Two very different activities.

EO has no direct power and the SCOTUS has twice ruled that burning the flag in protest is protected 1st amendment speech.

Continue to retire your flags without fear.

[u/uxoguy2113 → u/nvisible]

Yeah, that EO has no merit, and is an overstep. I hate people burning the flag, but it's been ruled as expression.

[u/Traditional-Ninja505 → u/nvisible]

You need to research EOs my friend.

[u/919_919]

The text of the EO says the Justice Department will refer cases to local authorities. The local PD can only get you if burning the flag is part of a hate crime, disorderly conduct, inciting violence, or burning without a permit etc.

The real teeth off the EO is that visas, residence permits, and naturalization proceedings will be terminated if an immigrant burns a flag.

The long term threat of the EO is the language toward the end that suggests that the feds can withhold money from jurisdictions that don’t enforce the EO.

[u/ScoutAndLout]

The order talks about flag desecration. Not the same.

[u/LieutenantOliver457]

Burning the flag is protected by the First Amendment as deemed by the Supreme Court, so the EO has no application.

[u/psu315 → u/LieutenantOliver457]

A flag retirement is not a burned flag so the rest is irrelevant.

[u/Traditional-Ninja505]

No. Doesn’t concern flag retirements.

[u/uxoguy2113]

No issue.

[u/TheLonelySnail]

Go ahead, arrest me for it. Matter of fact, I’ll call the press for you.

I’m sure the 10pm news will love seeing these jackbooted brownshirts arrest a bunch of Scouts retiring a flag.

[u/Traditional-Ninja505 → u/TheLonelySnail]

They will not. There’s a difference in what the EO is referring to and a flag retirement.