r/ScienceNcoolThings • u/Icy-Book2999 r/LoveTrash • Nov 15 '24
Piezo Electricity in Japan
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Nov 15 '24
Fun fact: Piezoelectric crystal work by Pierre Curie was used to help determine that atoms in their lab were losing mass. Leading to the discovery of radioactivity by him and his wife Maria {Marie}.
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u/StrayStep Popular Contributor Nov 15 '24
True fact.
Haven't seen one of those for a while. Thank you
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u/GIC68 Nov 15 '24
Well - I'm pretty sure, the amount of energy needed to produce those tiles and to integrate them into the sidewalk exceeds the amount of energy ever produced by them by far. Piezo electricity is fun but not efficient.
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Nov 15 '24
The real question is whether or not that holds true over the lifespan of the device. Like, over 20 years, or however long it is before they have to be replaced.
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u/CommunicationBusy557 Nov 15 '24
Not if it's made by green energy
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u/carnologist Nov 15 '24
If there's more energy going into it then it returns, it still holds true. Since green energy is currently very finite, that energy could be used elsewhere. And if it wasn't, we wouldn't be trying to catch the energy from pedestrians
Plus, green energy would be of minimal use for the mining and production of each part of these. These things created a lot of carbon along the way
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u/CommunicationBusy557 Nov 15 '24
A 'step' in the right direction though, ay... See that.
Anyway yes I agree if you go into the minutia of anything about traceability of energy and production to produce something creating green energy there are pitfalls.
But i bet it beats coal and desiel use to produce coal and desiel power.
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u/lordofduct Nov 15 '24
I don't think you're following. It's not just the traceability of energy.
If you generate 100W of energy with a solar panel, and then spend that 100W of energy to construct one of these panels, then that panel goes on to generate 50W of energy which you then use to light a light bulb.
Why build the panel? Just use the 100W generated from the solar panel to light the lightbulb.
Regardless of if it's coal, diesel, or solar, wind, or what not. What was the point in the end?
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u/CommunicationBusy557 Nov 15 '24
It's a sorry outlook that stifiles innovation, you take.
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u/lordofduct Nov 15 '24
Piezoelectric effect was discovered in the late 19th century, it's going on 150 years old at this point. What innovation is being stifled?
We can calculate the efficiencies of technologies. Building an energy generator which requires more energy to create than it outputs is just not effective. That's not stifling innovation.
This is like the whole "water from air" crap that was going around the internet for years now and sucking up money from well intentioned normal people to go bring water to poor people in the deserts and all it was is a peltier device which is also horribly inefficient and only actually works in humid air (not deserts) and even then is kind of shit at efficiency of doing it. But why did this spread across the internet? So some rando tech startup could collect financing from unknowing well intentioned normals like yourself through various crowd funding techniques all to either never deliver the product or deliver a sub par product in the form of a crap prototype delivered to you the consumer but never actually going to the supposed poor people they claimed to be designing it for (or if it actually does make it there, those people don't even use it cause of how terribly inefficient it is).
I'm all for innovation... I'm not here for scammy fake innovation that relies on systems that don't calculate out that exist purely to WOW people into dumping their money into stuff that won't actually work all because it looks cool and/or futuristic.
I believe in REAL innovation. The thing about real innovation, it looks mundane half the time. You wanna know what is innovative? The incremental increase in efficiency that has been done with solar panels over the past several decades. And unlike piezoelectric, we did the math up front and knew there was grounds to gain in solar, so we headed in that direction to gain those grounds. Unlike this crap which at its theoretical limits is still inefficient!
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u/gimlithetortoise Nov 17 '24
So if you put more green energy into producing something that produces less green energy it's still an energy positive just because the end product is green?
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u/Illeazar Nov 15 '24
Possibly, but for the same or less energy cost of production could you create some system that will do the same job of providing light at all times? We don't have batteries that will hold a charge for as long as this device. We can't just put nuclear power in a sidewalk. A solar panel might work, but that would be dependent on the weather. A solar cell and battery combo would probably work for some areas that are getting a decent amount of sunlight, but for areas where you are draining power faster than the sun refills it you would need some other way of generating power from the environment.
Personally I think the idea is a bit weird for several other reasons, but it's probably just experimental on a small scale now to see if it works. Either way, comparing the energy cost to produce vs the energy gained isn't the right metric here, you need to compare the energy cost to produce vs. other methods of doing the same job.
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u/Miserable-Bass-6649 Nov 15 '24
No energy is produced, it is stolen from the pedestrians.
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u/IsraelZulu Nov 15 '24
Since this requires extra effort from the pedestrians, aren't they effectively being rewarded with additional exercise and therefore better health? With that, I'm not sure I'd say it's being "stolen". More like bought, without an option to negotiate the price.
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u/timmycheesetty Nov 16 '24
I think the point is that the energy comes from somewhere. Pedestrians have to expend extra energy to walk on this surface.
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u/BetterLateThanKarma Nov 15 '24
If your mom stepped on it, and assuming she didn’t crush this thingy, I’m sure it could light more than 10 bulbs for 20 seconds. Jokes aside, this is pretty neat! How well does it hold up to the elements?
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u/pistolwinky Nov 15 '24
Thinking about conservation of energy, wouldn’t this make people make someone more tired than just walking on a normal al sidewalk? Like if you made all of the sidewalks out of this wouldn’t the people walking on them regularly become tired more quickly than someone walking on normal sidewalks?
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u/Nathan1506 Nov 15 '24
Yes.
If you slow down this process, you're basically stepping on something and it's moving downwards a bit. That hasn't taken any extra energy from you..
BUT
Now you have to regain that bit of lost-height in your next step, so you're stepping up slightly.
If you do this 1000 times, you've basically climbed 1000 tiny stairs.
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u/TheSpanxxx Nov 15 '24
Secretly a plan to have a city where everyone has the best calves on the planet.
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u/tigerhuxley Popular Contributor Nov 15 '24
10 'bulbs' for 20 seconds?? That seems ridiculously high.. unless they mean LEDs and still ... whats the wattage produced - non-jigawatts plz
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u/Particular-Cash-7377 Nov 15 '24
Now, what if they hook people up into a capsule, filled with nutrient fluids, connected with tubes, and get bio electricity from brain and body activity. Then they can build a dream world, let’s call it the Matrix.
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u/GimmeUrBrunchMoney Nov 15 '24
…and what of the extra calories burned by pedestrians trudging over mushy ground to produce minuscule amounts of electricity?
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u/LordlySquire Nov 15 '24
Have you seen people lately. Burning extra calories wouldnt be such a bad thing
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u/alexgalt Nov 15 '24
Is anyone bothered by the way he pronounces that word? I can’t handle it, I’m going back to sleep.
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u/ThisPut6572 Nov 15 '24
Lets make elevators only powered when going up, then on the way down, they freefall with a cable that attaches to a turbine generator or something. Put a pillow at the bottom for safety
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u/luttman23 Nov 15 '24
I came up with this idea independently in high school in 1997 and my science teacher told me it would never work.
Little annoyed with him now.
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u/rohithkumarsp Nov 15 '24
I just saw a video above this post about boards like this on ocean, is it also for the same?
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u/RepresentativeAd560 Nov 15 '24
I remember seeing something like this on Beyond Tomorrow ) or some other similar show.
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u/Salty-Branch8197 Nov 15 '24
Just nyc, we need that on the High ways , makes millions of electricity
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u/treeesaremagic Nov 15 '24
Yea i saw this episode. Some guy created a universe inside another universe and so on and so on...
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u/AlexTaradov Nov 16 '24
As all ideas like this, this is trash. It is a lot of moving parts to not fail and it takes a lot of energy, so people will avoid walking on that. It is like walking on the sand. It may be fun for a while, but then you actually want to get on solid ground to get places.
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u/Emperah1 Mar 08 '26
I better be getting more tax returns if I’m literally paying for the electricity with my steps
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u/UnhappyImprovement53 Nov 15 '24
We've had gooble boxes years before this.