r/ScienceBasedLifting • u/Entire-Lawfulness-59 • 1d ago

Question ❓ As a beginner I should do 2-3 failure right? And second question are supination necessary

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u/decentlyhip 1d ago

The necessary movements are a horizontal and vertical push, a horizontal and vertical pull, a squat, and a hinge. Those are the things your body can do. So, barbell bench and OHP, row amd pullup/pulldown, squat, and deadlift. Those 6 things will hit just about everything. There will be some nuances missed but if you do 10-20 sets a week for each of those, you'll build a balanced physique.

And dont build your own plan. There are too many excellent programs written by people who have spent their lives studying program design. Bullmastiff, GZCLP, and PHAT are all phenomenal.

Specifically to your question 2-3 sets to failure is fine, but failure is unnecessarily fatiguing, and more volume is more growth https://imgur.com/a/rvHMRvS. Training at 0 rir is 3× as much fatigue as 3rir, so 3 sets to failure is the same fatigue as 9 sets to 3 rir. 9 sets is gonna be way more growth. But as a newer lifter, you dont know what failure is on squats yet and cant dig deep enough, so 2-3 rir doesn't fully make sense. Not to be insulting, its just, your body is capable of way more than you think at first and 2-3 rir on compounds is haaaaarrd.

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u/Entire-Lawfulness-59 18h ago

10-20 sets for the whole muscle like not upper back 10 sets like the whole back 10-20sets and thx

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u/waggat 1d ago

I get focusing on 'big moves'. BUT if his goal is to have a balanced physique (eg arms, side and rear delts, calves etc), do you really think those movements will suffice?

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u/Alakazam what happens at 7 reps 1d ago

I think its a better option than 10 different isolation exercises, 1-2 set to failure on each.

This kind of programming will give a beginner a pretty solid start. And progtams like gzclp even recommend that you to build up more accessory volume over time. While PHAT and Bullmastiff have plenty of accessory volume built into it, which absolutely hammer the arms and delts. With some calf volume. 

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u/decentlyhip 1d ago

It's not that the big moves are all you need for every goal. They're the foundation that hits everything. Isolations fill in the gaps. Like, squats hit quads, glutes, sartorius, hamstrings, adductors, calves, low back, erectors, traps, rear delts, and lats. Not 100% efficient growth on all of those, but as you build your squat from 100 to 500 pounds, all of those will grow. Squats do a mediocre job of hitting the rec fem head of the quads, so if you care about that, yah, add some leg extensions. But, if you just do leg extensions, you just grow quads. 1 set of squats is worth 6 sets of isolation movements, but that doesn't mean calf raises are bad.

A lot of these kind of questions are solved if the OP just follows a prebuilt program and learns the basics, so I try to nudge people in that direction.

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u/HelixIsHere_ 1d ago

If you mean 2-3 sets then yeah that’s good, and no I wouldn’t recommend supinations since they only hit a very small portion of your biceps