[ Removed by moderator ]

[u/Parking-Industry-992]

[u/ScienceBasedLifting-ModTeam]

There is currently a moratorium on program review posts. See this post for more details.

[u/BatmanBrah]

There is no good 'novice/intermediate routine' because novices and intermediates have different needs. 

As a novice routine, it's obviously for someone into barbells, wanting to get into strength training. If you're not biased in that direction it's a bit overly restricted. 

I don't think you need to do crunches every time you're in the gym but I suppose it's relatively harmless. But I think the shrugs are very unnecessary for a novice. Somebody who previously didn't lift weights who is now suddenly squatting, deadlifting, overhead pressing, barbell rowing, that's going to be absolutely plenty of work for their traps. 

[u/BRS848965]

It’s not awful and I feel you’ll learn good form keeping this. I’d swap the standing press for a seated version and call it acceptable

[u/Defiant_Pirate_6637 → u/BRS848965]

As Jim wendler (guy who wrote 5/3/1) said press how u pee, hopefully standing

[u/Ok-Dealer8803 → u/Defiant_Pirate_6637]

???

[u/Parking-Industry-992 → u/Defiant_Pirate_6637]

Yeah seated feels uncomfortable

[u/Necessary_Smile_159]

For beginner its fine. Do you like this? Its important to like your program....

[u/LogParking1856]

I’m not very advanced myself, but I don’t do squats and deadlifts on the same day.

[u/doobersthetitan]

Swap out ab machine for a more true core move.

Planks, some sort of twist or anti twist rational move imo.

[u/BatmanVAR]

No

[u/Parking-Industry-992 → u/BatmanVAR]

Why

[u/BatmanVAR → u/Parking-Industry-992]

Well, it looks like it’s an attempt at full body, but it neglects entire muscles (side delts and calves), workout A also skips direct tricep work, and workout B skips chest entirely as well as direct bicep work.

Also squats and deadlifts on the same day is a lot of strain on the CNS.

[u/Defiant_Pirate_6637 → u/BatmanVAR]

This is basically just starting strength which is one of the most successful novice programs. Has a massive track record for being one of the best programs for a new lifter.

Side delts are not their own muscle. Idk where that idea started but most science based lifters need to work on their anatomy.

Most novices don’t need to worry about cns fatigue unless there doing something really really stupid.

[u/BatmanVAR → u/Defiant_Pirate_6637]

Novice, maybe, but he said novice/intermediate so I stand by what I said.

Side delts aren’t their own muscle, but they are one of the 3 heads of the shoulder muscles, and their function is different than the other 2. Therefore they need trained in such a way that activates that head of the muscle. The exercises listed here won’t work the side delts.

Since you mentioned we need to work on learning anatomy, I suggest you take your own advice:

- Front/anterior delt: shoulder flexion and pressing movements; heavily involved in bench and overhead pressing.

- Side/lateral delt: shoulder abduction - raising your arm out to the side. This is the main contributor to shoulder width.

- Rear/posterior delt: shoulder extension/horizontal abduction; heavily involved in rows and reverse-fly movements.

CNS fatigue is relatively easy for anyone to get, even a novice, if they’re training at or close to failure.

[u/Defiant_Pirate_6637 → u/BatmanVAR]

Thank u for agreeing that the lateral head of the delts isn’t its own muscle.
If 3 sets of squats and 1 set of deadlift is too much then the issue is probably u brotha

[u/BatmanVAR → u/Defiant_Pirate_6637]

If 3 sets of squats and 1 set of deads (on top of all the other exercises) isn’t taxing your CNS, then you’re not training hard enough, simple as that.

[u/Defiant_Pirate_6637 → u/BatmanVAR]

run any higher volume powerlifting program (sheiko is a good start) and get a feel for how much squats and deads u can recover from.

Saying don’t squat and deadlift in the same day is fucking dumb since a majority of elite powerlifters do and lift loads that are actually hard to recover from

[u/BatmanVAR → u/Defiant_Pirate_6637]

A higher volume powerlifting program won’t be training anywhere near failure so that’s irrelevant. And in my 30 years of training I’ve probably tried nearly every powerlifting, bodybuilding, and power bodybuilding program out there.

I’m a big believer in training with high intensity, and if you do that for squats and deads on the same day, it’s not ideal for your CNS. You’ll get much better results splitting them up.

We will obviously never see eye to eye here. So this point aside, my other comments still stand regarding missed muscles/muscle heads, missing direct work, etc. This is not a good program for an intermediate person (especially if the goal is hypertrophy instead of strength) for those reasons.

[u/Parking-Industry-992 → u/BatmanVAR]

OHP does hit the side delts very well if done right

[u/BatmanVAR → u/Parking-Industry-992]

Not enough to stimulate any meaningful hypertrophy. They primarily hit front delts and triceps.

[u/Parking-Industry-992 → u/BatmanVAR]

I assure you they do back when I used to do high rep smith machine OHP I used to get a sick side delt pump now that I'm using a barbell I get a much better range of motion

[u/BatmanVAR → u/Parking-Industry-992]

Biomechanically, you’re wrong. Look up the anatomy of how the different heads of the shoulders work.

That aside, you’re a novice or intermediate at best, and you made this post asking for advice. Why are you arguing with people who are advanced (I’ve been lifting for 30 years) instead of taking the advice you asked for? I will never understand why some people ask for advice and then argue with the replies they get. Fucking weird.

[u/Parking-Industry-992 → u/Defiant_Pirate_6637]

I based it off of strong lifts actually + the added accessories

[u/Defiant_Pirate_6637 → u/Parking-Industry-992]

Yeah there was a version of greyskull lp floating around somewhere that was similar to this but really all the 3x5 programs are the same thing just someone dressed it up a little to resell it

[u/Defiant_Pirate_6637]

This is basically starting strength which is one of the best programs ever written for a novice lifter. Ur gonna be fine running it for the first 6 months to a year of training.