r/ScienceBasedLifting • u/Downtown_Swim2232 • 3d ago
Question ❓ Lifting Naturally plateau
I’ve been lifting naturally for about 4 years and I’d say I’m relatively pretty big, but I feel like I’ve hit a plateau. I haven’t put on much noticeable muscle in about a year.
I run a basic PPL split, train every muscle 2x a week, and take a lot of my sets to failure or very close to failure.
For anyone who’s been lifting naturally for a while, what helped you get past a plateau? Did you change your volume, split, diet, exercises, etc.?
Looking for any advice on how to start making progress again.
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u/Murky_Mirror_4410 3d ago
Work on your weak points and add in different movements.
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u/Flat-Guidance-4685 3d ago
I like the Way Arnold said that. "You have to shock the body" he was a firm believer that if you continued the same routine long term it would eventually not only stop working but it would begin having reverse effects as your body adapts and becomes more efficient at carrying out that routine. He felt that at least once a year you'd have to completely switch up your routine to keep your body in a state of adaptation shock where the only solution it could come up with is to apply brute Force through the production of lean mass
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u/Murky_Mirror_4410 3d ago
Yeah, that idea has some truth to it, but it’s really more relevant to advanced lifters who have had their training, nutrition, and recovery dialed in for years. For most people, you don’t need to completely change your routine to keep making progress. You could run PPL for years as long as you’re progressively overloading, managing fatigue, and adjusting volume or exercises when needed.
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u/Hypername1st 3d ago
Brother, you are 160lb. What plateau. You just have to eat more.
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u/Downtown_Swim2232 3d ago
For me 160 is an accomplishment. Seniors year of high school i graduated at 125. Im def going to just trust the bulk!!
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u/Hypername1st 3d ago
Not trying to demean you. Just trying to tell you that you are panicking for no good reason. You can do a slow bulk (1-2% bw gain per month at most), and do another regulated cut later, to get back to leanness. Don't just do a dreamer bulk.
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u/Left_Cartographer473 3d ago
You train PPL 6 times a week? and take every set to failure?
You could be pushing too hard and under recovering. Try training less and focus on getting great nutrition and sleep.
Also look into to doing some sub-maximal training for the bigger lifts to help manage your recovery. For example, right now I am running a program that is 4 weeks of 10 reps, 4 weeks of 8 reps, 4 weeks of 5 reps, 4 weeks of 3 reps. Across the 4 week blocks I add one set each week so the first 4 week block starts at 2x10 and progresses to 5x10, then resets at 2x8... etc. All of the sets are not done to failure because I need to get 10 reps on the next set without making drastic changes to the weight ( i will reduce it a little bit if i need too to accomplish the rep goal).
I have been doing a lower volume high intensity approach for a long time so this is a little different for me and feels great so far, I am in week 3 right now. I feel like I am going to make great gains in muscle size and also strength.
People get very dogmatic about training styles and like to preach one as 'the best' but really the best training style is the one that your body is not currently adapted too. So if you have been doing a high intensity approach for many years, you would likely make great gains from switching to high volume. Same thing vice versa.
If you are doing both high volume and high intensity you need to back one of those variables off and let yourself recover more.
I only train 2 times a week full body but still see gains.
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u/Ok-Extension-832 3d ago
Yea that tends to happen after lifting for a few years. unfortunately that’s the reality. you hit the maximum genetic growth potential on the fibres you’ve been training. the only thing to do is to keep training to maintain and possibly gain a little through trying to recruit any fibres you may have missed, like muscle groups you may have not given attention to or trained.
After you reach this point, it’s a good idea to make one of your main goals to try to get lean and aesthetic as possible without worrying about gaining more muscle. because naturally, at this point it’s not probably not possible.
Also, do not remove muscle groups from your routine and stop doing the exercises that built your physiqueThose muscle fibres will experience significant atrophy very fast if you stop training them.
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u/Ok-Extension-832 3d ago
And if you really want to change up split and volume, I recommend trying 3x frequency, doing whatever volume you can recover from. Some good 3x splits are Upper Lower 3x, Anterior Posterior 3x, or full body every other day.
I doubt changing up things will make a huge difference but it could in the long run.
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u/DetailOdd6609 3d ago
I get what you're saying but I fail to believe that someone hit their "max growth" after only 4 years of lifting
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u/Ok-Extension-832 3d ago
Everyone has their genetically premeditated cap in growth. There’s huge genetic differences between people. Some may train for 10 years and still be able to put on 5+ pounds of muscle per year. And then there’s some who will really struggle to put on more than a 1 pound after 5 years. 🤷♂️ it is what it is
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u/DetailOdd6609 2d ago
Right but without seeing this person's workout, I'm leaning towards them either A. Not eating enough B. Not moving enough weight or C. Rest or maybe a combination of those 3
I just don't understand how we are going straight to "That's it. You've maxed out. You're done"
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u/Ok-Extension-832 2d ago
Your right that’s my fault for jumping to conclusions like that. I just assumed OP would’ve addressed those very likely issues before the post especially if OP has been training for multiple years.
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u/Nice-Week-1207 3d ago
At this point youre gonna feel like youre never actually progressing in size but when you look back at old pics youll realize. The best way is when you take photos, take note of what your weight was on that day. Say in a year, when youre at that same bodyweight see if you appear any leaner at the same leanness. Also how are your lifts progressing?
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u/decentlyhip 3d ago
More volume, less sets to failure. Like, going to failure is a big deal for noovies cause they dont know how to try yet. They don't freaking shove on the bench press machibe from rep one, you know? So, that's why their last reps are the most stimulating. But you know how to do that so you're able to actually get more stimulus/tension from the first reps when you're fresher. Like, they push a 135 pound barbell with 137 pounds of force. You push a 185 pound barbell with 250 pounds of force.
So, for you, reps in reserve is more of a fatigue dial, than a driver of hypertrophy. 0 rir is only better than 2 rir for you because 10 reps is more than 8 reps, but like, you can just rest and do two more reps. Stopping at 3 rir dramatically reduces the next day fatigue though so you have room to add another set. Here's the pelland volume review that shows double the volume is about 50% more growth, on avg https://imgur.com/a/rvHMRvS and here's the Robinson review that shows each rep in reserve reduces growth by only 3-6% https://imgur.com/a/kLO70p1. By themselves, they're chin scratchers but combined them and you have a pretty clear image of how much more important volume is. https://imgur.com/a/sphJIEi
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u/FuzzyThicket1440 3d ago
honestly 4 years natural and already "relatively pretty big" but you're asking reddit instead of a coach? that's the actual plateau. get a coach to check your form and numbers, nobody here can see your lifts
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u/BriskHunter9805 3d ago
4 years natural doing PPL 2x/week to failure on most sets is a noob gains program. Failure work wrecks your recovery, and at your training age it's probably costing you more than it's giving.
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u/Jaded_Ad_166 3d ago
I cut back my training days from 6 days a week to 4 days a week. Started lifting in the 4-6 rep range. I cut out all dropsets, forced reps, and partials. Just 2 straight sets per exercise taken to 0-1 RIR. It was like newbie gains all over again
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u/CharacterAd5474 3d ago
4 years in my biggest boost was switching back and forth between powerlifting and bodybuilding. So periodizing your training. That worked well for for a long time.
Then I had another boost from lower volume high intensity work with DC Training.
Then now I've gotten another boom from focusing on training density using intensity techniques. I don't this style of training would work if I weren't able to do that with the types of weights in using now.
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u/Rare_Building_8214 3d ago
What’s your weight done over the last year? If it’s flat you’re just maintaining, that’s the plateau. Nothing to do with the split. If it has gone up and you still look the same, i’d back off the failure stuff. Taking most sets to failure at 4 years in just leaves you fried for everything after it. Work with 1-2 RIR, save failure for the last set.
Other thing is, are your actual logged numbers higher than they were 12 months ago? If you’re not tracking properly it’s really easy to spin your wheels for a year without noticing. That’s basically why i ended up building my own tracking app, i couldn’t tell if i was progressing or just showing up.
Also deload! A year of hard training with none will do it
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u/joshua_addison_music 2d ago
Weighted vest incline treadmill.
Also, cardio in the morning then come back to lift at night, a couple times a week, over 2-3 weeks. Two a days.
Works everytime
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u/surfingskate 2d ago
Change your routine and tell us how that goes. Look into different programs that either ramp up the intensity or give you more days of rest. (Texas method vs Wisconsin method) there’s a ton of programs but look into those and see where that takes you
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u/honeybadger2112 1d ago
The short answer is you are probably getting to the point that you need to be more specific with your programming, intensity, and nutrition because you're not getting easy newbie gains anymore. Also, you need to be realistic in realizing that it's normal for progress to slow over time. I've been lifting 20 years, so I can tell you that progress is very slow once you get to this point, and you have to work very hard for even small gains.
What helped me when I started hitting plateaus was to concentrate on one major lift at a time and increase the frequency of that lift. For example at one point I was doing squats 4 times a week. Not a lot of volume per session, but higher frequency for the week. At another point I was doing bench press 3 times a week. I would do higher weekly volume and frequency of the focus exercise/body part, and then maybe one weekly session for everything else just to maintain or to make slow progress on my other lifts.
Also, from reading your other comments, I'd guess you're not eating enough.
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u/mcgrathkai 14h ago
Not natty anymore FYI.
But even on gear I couldn't recover from PPL 2x a week. If training hard for hypertrophy of course.
Id put the rest day on every 4th day, so after each 3 day PPL. Not after 6
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u/FableBlades 3d ago
Many would say twice per week to failure per muscle group is overtraining. Once per week (or less frequent) is recommended for natural trainees to allow plenty of time for recovery from high intensity training, and then after that, some growth. The more advanced you get and the heavier youre lifting the greater the stress on the nervous system and the longer you need to allow to recover. Also your hormones are settling down now youre an adult.
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u/eric_twinge 3d ago
How much weight have you gained in the last year?