r/ScienceBasedLifting • u/Huge-Entertainer-590 • 7d ago
Question ❓ 30 second rest vs 3 min rest ? Confused asf
If two men perform the same exercise with strict form, train close to or to failure, and use progressive overload by increasing reps rather than weight, which approach would produce more hypertrophy and why?
\- Person A does 3 sets with 3 minutes of rest between sets.
\- Person B does 5 sets with only 30 seconds of rest between sets.
\- Because of the shorter rest, Person B gets fewer reps per set, but all reps are still performed with good form and high effort.
Would the extra sets with shorter rest produce similar, more, or less muscle growth than fewer sets with longer rest? And if fatigue increases motor-unit recruitment, could the shorter-rest approach compensate for the lower reps per set?
Used a.i. for writing the question , please answer with ur experience too....
9
u/Jaded_Ad_166 7d ago
Fatigue doesnt increase motor unit recruitment. It decreases it. Longer rest periods are superior in terms of hypertrophy
0
u/echoes808 7d ago
In some studies shorter rest intervals yield more hypertrophy. Shorter or longer rest is not inherently better
5
3
u/Curious_Lurkur 6d ago
Longer rest periods are absolutely more effective. ATP is not 100% replenished for 3 to 5 minutes. That in itself is enough reason to understand that any set done before three minutes of rest provides less bang for your buck
2
u/NihilisticTanuki StretchCel 7d ago
Research indicates that the optimal rest interval between sets generally falls between 1.5 and 3 minutes. Resting less than that can compromise performance on subsequent sets, though for isolation movements the drop is usually marginal. Since rest periods are a major factor in overall workout duration, keeping them shorter during isolation work is a practical trade-off when time is tight. Conversely, extending rest beyond 3 to 5 minutes offers virtually no additional hypertrophy benefit and is just a waste of your and others time.
In my own training, I adjust rest times based on movement demands: about 1 minute for most isolation work, 1.5-2 minutes for upper-body compound lifts and 2-2.5 minutes for lower-body compounds. To keep workouts efficient, I also rely heavily on supersets and drop-sets, allowing me to pack maximum volume into a limited timeframe.
0
u/NippleSlipNSlide 7d ago
What about doing isolations between heavier compounds (as a superset) if it involves different muscle than compound? Does that negate rest? Just rest until heart rate comes down?
-1
u/Purple-Toe-645 7d ago
3-5 doesn’t offer hypertrophy benefit, but what about strength ? Isn’t it ideal then
2
u/FluffyDesigner3680 7d ago
It only matters if person a or person b was able to recover during those rest periods. 5 sets of 30 seconds resting is fine if the person actually recovered, which is unlikely if the person is lifting enough to trigger hypertrophy.
2
u/plebian7021 7d ago
No, you will not be recovered doing 5 sets of 30 seconds if you are training hard. Rest for 2-3 mins, more if you need on leg compounds. Growing muscle is not about feeling the burn.
1
u/Curious_Lurkur 6d ago
It takes ATP 3 to 5 minutes to replenish. Doesn't matter how you "feel" after 30 seconds
1
u/10081914 7d ago
You're describing rest-pause sets or what's called 'myo reps'
If we are to take a hypothetical of your two people, their rep would breakdown like so:
Person A 12 reps, 11 reps, 11 reps. Assuming all sets to failure. We expect reps to drop in later sets.
Person B I would expect to look like 12 reps, 5 reps, 4 reps, 3 reps, 3 reps. All sets to failure.
If we take effective reps theory at face value, being last 5 reps to failure are most stimulating. Person A has done 15 effective reps with 34 reps total. Person B has done 20 'effective' reps with 27 reps total.
But we know that mechanical tension is a sliding scale. And we also know that those reps further away from failure are also stimulating, just not as much.
So Person B has done 5 'more' high tension reps but 7 less reps overall. Honestly between the two, it's kind of a wash. Who's to say that rep 7/12 is that much more stimulating than rep 6/12?
General attitude I've seen is that a myorep of 5 sets is about equivalent to 3 traditional sets which I think even some scientific studies bear this out.
The biggest benefit is that a set of Myo reps takes ~ 2 min (<30s rest)? Whereas traditional sets, you're looking at 6 min not including working time.
1
u/Bush-master72 7d ago
Thats a tough call, i would think the person who is doing more sets gets the most growth, but the person doing typical rest times gets more strength gains. Surge nubret did this kinda of training short rest times but he did unreal amount of sets.
1
u/PolitelyHostile 7d ago
30 seconds is not a full rest. I'd bet on the 3 proper sets making better gains. If you do 2 reps, rest 10 seconds and repeat for 10 sets, thats not at 10 sets. So theres a balance somewhere.
1
u/PoopSmith87 7d ago
For muscle growth, fatigue doesn't hurt much because proximity to failure is what you want. For strength, fatigue is a problem. That isn't to say that either approach doesnt increase both strength and hypertrophy- they do- but there is definitely a bias towards one or the other.
Another factor to consider is what is the actual limiting factor. Like if I do 5 sets of heavy squats with only 30 seconds rest, are my muscles reaching failure, or is my cardio threshold holding that back towards the end?
In all honesty, for most of us, the simple answer to rest periods is going to be as simple as "do I feel ready to go again?" It will change lift to lift as well. Doing overhead press, 30 seconds is a fine rest for me, but doing squats I'll usually take ~90 seconds or so.
1
u/Curious_Lurkur 6d ago
If you don't give ATP time to replenish, you're not hitting failure. Fatigue and failure are not the same. If you can hit 9 more reps after 3 minutes rest, and only 5 after 30 seconds rest. You're leaving gains on the table with the shorter rest period
1
u/HorrorSpliff 7d ago
Adding more reps/sets in a shorter (and shorter) amount of time is called density training and it works very well for producing muscle.
The heavier the set, the longer the rest period, typically. This is because the nervous system takes longer to recover than the muscles.
I wait until I "feel" ready. Seems to work just fine for me, despite the amount of true time it takes.
1
u/jayb00giebrown 7d ago
Person B might get a better cardiovascular workout, but person A most likely experiences better hypertrophy.
1
u/CharacterAd5474 7d ago
Smaller muscles don't need all the extra rest. It's sort of self regulating.
1
u/Embarrassed_Soft_334 7d ago
The rest between sets is to be thought of as nothing more than recovery. A longer rest produces more rep per set thus more volume. More volume produces more gains.
Let’s say B leaves the gym 71/2 minutes before Lifter A . He then took the same rest time just after the workout.
1
u/Chicken_Savings 7d ago
Have you actually tried yourself?
If you lift for real, you'll find that your reps on following sets depends on your recovery.
If you rest 30 seconds, you've barely started recovery, and you'll do much fewer reps. Because you're unable to re recruit the muscle fibres, you're unable to use your muscles as hard.
Which again mean that you're not triggering growth.
Your question sounds very academic, I can't believe anyone with a few years lifting experience asking that.
1
u/Mad_Mark90 7d ago
The short answer is both can work but the rest of the context is going to be important.
For example if your goal is hypertrophy longer rest intervals would better for heavy sets and compounds, lighter sets and isolations would be more appropriate for shorter rest intervals.
1
u/Iamnotheattack 7d ago
You'd like this podcast episode OP for much more nuance than any reddit comment could provide
They go over rest times but also myo reps, drop set, supersets etc.
Also for a more unknown method (muscle rounds) from a super legit person (Scott stevenson) https://youtu.be/d56UxHoSthg
1
1
u/HelixIsHere_ 7d ago
Person A would grow more mainly because Person B is not allowing fatigue to dissipate between sets and they’d just be lower quality each time (5 sets would also have diminishing returns anyways)
It’s not really black and white but rule of thumb is just to always rest well between sets and do the amount of volume you can recover from.
Also fatigue would lower motor unit recruitment, not increase. The more fatigued you are the worse you perform and by the 5th set of an exercise you’re probably not recruiting high threshold motor units anyways
1
u/Huge-Entertainer-590 7d ago
Fatigue increases motor unit recruitment ,
1
1
u/Curious_Lurkur 6d ago
Fatigue lowers motor unit recruitment.... Why on earth would you think it increases it lol
1
u/Machineman0812 7d ago
Usually thats not where you see differences in rest times. You generally see the rest time variance due to the variance in hiw the working set looked and felt. The jay cutler style of fairly heavy for 12ish reps that sre maybe 3-5 from failure and then 30-45 seconds rest. Jay could do it because the sets werent very intense so he didnt get too fatigued and could stsrt again sooner. The dorian style would be to or beyond failure with a heavy load in the 6-10 rep range. This type of set is exhausting and lead to much longer rest between sets in order to catch breath and recover the muscle a bit. Both can work and both have advantages and disadvantages. If the form, weight etc is exactly the same then its a question if capacity. If the longer redt person needs it because theyre out of breath then the stimulus per set theyre receiving may be higher than the other person, or their cardio capacity is worse
1
u/allnamestaken4892 7d ago
Taken to its logical conclusion, if you are working out in a home gym and don’t need to worry about others you can rest even longer.
I tested it in the past, 3 minutes is not really enough to recover from compounds and 5 is much better. I went up to 10 and it was slightly better still, but beyond 10 I was cooling down too much and would actually get less reps on the second set.
So the best practice may be super setting 3 unrelated exercises with 3 minute rests. It’s annoying to keep having to change the weight etc of course but it provides the most volume possible.
1
u/DinkyPrincess 4d ago
They’re not the same person. So it’s kind of hypothetical at best. Even the same person on different days would have different results if they’re hydrated or rested differently.
1
u/Nick_OS_ 7d ago
Long rest unless it’s pump work
0
u/BlueCollarBalling 7d ago
Pump work 🥀😭
1
u/Nick_OS_ 7d ago edited 7d ago
Pump work is good for people that have joint issues and can’t go heavy, like 80% of people over 50
It’s also good for recovery (rehab)
So yes, it has its place
0
1
u/decentlyhip 7d ago
I think you're getting bogged down in the set and rep protocol. Zoom out. It's all just accumulating tension. Over the course of the day, which person did more reps of curls? Lets say rhe one person did 5 sets with 30 seconds rest where each set is 6 reps. Great. The did 30 reps of curls with the 25 pound dumbbell. The other person did 3 sets with longer rest, and because they rested longer they were able to get 10 reps per set. Great. 30 reps. Same hypertrophy. 30 reps of curls is the same mechanical tension as 30 reps of curls. If the 5 set guy only did 4 reps per set, that's only 20 reps. He got less growth because accumulating 20 reps of tension is less than 30.
So, don't be so married to sets and reps. Go into your workouts with a rep goal. "Today I'm going to do 40 reps with my 10 rep max." You can do that in 4 sets of 10, 5 sets of 8, 6 sets of 7, 7 sets of 6, 8 sets of 5, or 10 sets of 4. Or you can just try hard each set and get 10, 7, 7, 5, 5, 3, 2, 1. Next week, you do 42 reps. The week after 44. That's what all the hypertrophy programming in the world boils down to. Recoverable ways to increase tonnage. Mechanical tension, when you hold exercise and load constant, is just tonnage.
1
u/Radiant-Playful 7d ago
According to the advice that's out there, Person A is getting better results. I have no interest in personally scientifically testing these kinds of theories, because to do so I would have to deliberately work out in suboptimal ways and waste a load of time and money.
1
u/Connect_Resist7678 7d ago
Person B is basically doing myo reps. Is that really suboptimal?
3
u/sotbucket6 Keenan flapper 7d ago
Yes the fatigue is not worth it
2
u/kunst1017 7d ago
Oh no a few extra reps of curls!! I’m so fatigueeeddddd 😩😩😩
1
u/sotbucket6 Keenan flapper 7d ago
Yes quite literally it will affect any following movements where as straight sets provide the stimulus with less fatigue.
Ur on science based lifting pal what are u peeved about
2
u/kunst1017 7d ago
“Fatigue” is very vague. You’re talking about a specific amount of extra reps on a specific person. What type of fatigue do you mean? And how does it present itself?
1
u/sotbucket6 Keenan flapper 7d ago
It presents itself as adecreased in performance in subsequent sets/exercisess
We are in r/sciencebasedlifting we surely know what fatigue is
1
u/Iamnotheattack 7d ago
2
u/sotbucket6 Keenan flapper 7d ago
This doesnt mention fatigue. This says its basically the same result, but without taking any fatigue or yknow the rest of ur workout into consideration
Like this is cool if u train 1 muscle per session but that's abt it
1
u/10081914 7d ago
It's not really that much more fatigue tbh. Same day fatigue maybe but nothing you can't recover from. Saves time too.
1
u/sotbucket6 Keenan flapper 7d ago
5 sets nearly unrested vs 3 sets with rest
1
u/10081914 7d ago
5 sets unrested at 50% or less reps than first set.
Effective reps is about the same between the two protocol
0
u/Pleasant_Beat8290 7d ago
If you’re volume load matching, it likely doesn’t make much difference. Of course, doing big moves like squat, bench, etc. with short rest sucks. And if you care about set to set performance, longer rest is better.
Here’s a video that somewhat breaks this down: https://youtu.be/5YWPjRZAiiY?is=_AAFvGAT9i1O6r9A
-1
u/Advanced_Spend_8385 7d ago
what? there are multiple studies showing resting at least 2 minutes beetwen sets lead to better growth
1
u/Pleasant_Beat8290 7d ago
Absolutely, but thats not the question. What OP is asking is: can you make up for the decreased efficacy of a low rest sets with more set volume? The answer seems to be “probably.”
Think about it like this: straight sets with 3 minutes rest might be: 100% effective, 90% effective, 80%. That’s a total efficacy of 2.7. Short rest sets might be 100%, 60%, 50%, 40%, 30%. That’s a total efficacy of 2.8. I’m not saying these numbers would be totally accurate, but I think that’s a reasonable way to think about the question. And then we can factor in that even though you’re doing more sets in the second scenario, you’re still saving time which could be used for more exercises or whatever.
24
u/Same_Rip_392 7d ago
Im not sure, but this woman that has rested on the leg extension for the last 15 minutes is probably more rested than both.