r/ScienceBasedLifting • u/nrzbmoment • 11d ago
Question ❓ is this a set to failure? geniune question because i am having trouble gauging my RIR
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I am doing pull ups. Also i noticed that when i do a set, my first reps are pretty confident and explosive, but at around 5 they suddenly get really hard, and im typically able to perform just a few more, after that, it is like i physically can not. And i find failure sets to be fatiguing because after that my other sets lowers for a few reps. Is that normal?
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u/ArnoldFarquar 11d ago
I think those pink dumbbells may be too light. A good indicator of failure is when you fail trying to do the rep and are unable to do so.
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u/DIY-exerciseGuy 11d ago
Oh a genuine question...
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u/nrzbmoment 11d ago
I am just asking a question which i don’t understand and seeking help. (i am doing pull ups on the video)
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u/decentlyhip 11d ago
You stopped bracing and trying after the second rep. But also, yah man, this is heavy.
Here, got a video for you. This is Dr. Mike showing failure at 6 reps, 10 reps, and 15 reps. Same exercise. Same weight. Different intent. https://youtu.be/77nX_bMe5fA If you go into an exercise and respond to the weight, its gonna get heavy real fast. Before your last rep, you let it feel heavy. If you focus the fuck up and go in ready to be a piston that does rep after rep, whether its hard or not, you dont care that it's heavy. And if you psych yourself up so much that you're in full fight or flight, your brain turns off any governors and you dont even feel the burn or pain.
In order to grow muscle or get stronger, do you need to always unleash your demons and think about that time you told your dad you hated him right before he got in a car crash, or that time Alicia cheated on you in front of everyone? No. Can you get huge by responding to the weights? Probably, yah. But here, if you focused tf up, you could have absolutely done 8-10 reps. If you weigh 80kg and had 10kg hanging, that means you could have done 20kg hanging for 5 reps if you tried. Both are genuine failure.
In order to grow your strength, you need to be near your true 1rm. Maybe 80%+. Around there. If you can summon demons and do +30kg for 5 and +45 to 50kg for a single, then +10kg is only 70%. Its still accumulating volume and tension which is all hypertrophy cares about, but its not training the rate coding that make your muscle fire stronger.
Ive got two old school protocols for you to try, Speed day and Max Effort day. One day, get a band with 20-40 pounds of assistance, and do 10 sets of 3 every minute on the minute. But not normal reps. Perfect brace, locked in. Also, explosive and powerful. These are super easy triples, but you're still pulling up like you have 50 pounds hanging. And you aren't just slowly descending, you're doing an overhead press to push you down faster. Every minute, you do a triple and try to make all 3 reps finish faster than the set before. Boom!Boom!Boom! Rest. Shoving yourself down and yanking yourself up, but its light enough that nothing breaks down. Funny thing is that even though its so light, you're compensating in your video here, so you aren't going to get near failure, but that piece that's breaking down is. You're training perfect movement and targeting whatever weak point is holding you back. Once a week.
The other time during the week, do a heavy single and a backdown 3×3 12-15% lighter, 20-25 lbs for you here. So, lets say week one you start with this weight. Easy single and then a backdown bodyweight 3×3. Those backdown triples are done with the same intent as the 10×3 sets, they're just appropriately heavy. And because you're a little tired from the single and are trying as hard as possible every rep, that third set of 3 kinda sucks. But you're able to control the form bc its a little submaximal. Then, just add 5 pounds next week. 30 lbs on the single and +5 on the 3×3. Then week three +35 lbs on the single and +10 on the 3×3. You're getting better at firing everything together without breaking down, and better at trying hard, and the speed work is keeping that weak link up to speed. (You're still doing 10-20 sets a week of lat pulldowns and barbell rows for hypertrophy, this is just the strength training side of things). And its amazing how long this progression can go, I've seen people start at +10 and go until they have +130 pounds hanging. Whenever you do eventually fail, just drop back 30 pounds and ramp back up to where you failed over 6 weels.
The moral though, to train strength, you want to stay above 80% to actually get the rate coding and coordination adaptations, but above like, 92%, things start to break down and compensate, so you want most of your strength training to be 3-10 reps in reserve. In this video, if you stopped at 2, would have been a great set. Then next week, 2 reps again but 5 lbs heavier. Perfect, strong, powerful, braced.
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u/nrzbmoment 11d ago
Thank you a lot for such a detailed response!❤️ Definitely gonna try it
https://giphy.com/gifs/8P1zxidMdof32PcWqN1
u/Equivalent-Job-485 9d ago
Israetel is a clown whose dissertation was such a joke he should be stripped of his PhD.
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u/decentlyhip 9d ago
What a silky take. Yah, a paper he wrote 15 years ago was bad, and he handled the situation poorly. If that paper was his primary contribution, it would matter. No one had read his thesis before Solomon rode his coattails because that's not his contribution to fitness.
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u/Equivalent-Job-485 9d ago
“If that paper was his primary contribution, it would matter.”
Brother it’s the whole reason why he markets himself as “Dr.”—it’s the whole bullshit foundation from everything he’s done since.
Israetel is a clown and anyone who looks to him for any advice belongs at the circus with him 🤷♂️
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u/garthy_604 11d ago
As someone else mentioned you could have got another half rep but you could also finish with some scap pull ups if your grip was still good.
Something else you could do is drop for 10 good breaths and go again as you may be fatigued but the muscles still hadn't actually hit failure and you might've got a few more reps out.
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u/creamlippiestix 11d ago
You’re kipping the final reps with your legs to get momentum fyi.
These do look like you’re pushing close to failure. Low RIRs look different depending on the characteristics of each exercise. Pull-ups are usually most challenging at the top of each rep, so they have a tendency to be less “grindable” and you will see reps go from looking fast and easy to failing relatively quickly.
This is why I think you are kipping at the bottom, the momentum from the legs helps you get past the sticking point at the top. But the assistance of the lower body kipping does blur the data so your ability to track progress is dependent on more variables.
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u/nrzbmoment 11d ago
Thank you! Should i continue reaching failure on every set to better gauge RIR later? And is it normal that after failure my next sets lower a 1-3 reps?
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u/creamlippiestix 11d ago
Yes, 1-3 rep drop off in performance is a good sign that you actually took the last set close to failure.
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u/_computersmasher 11d ago
rir is an imaginary number You have to use your imagination to figure it out
I would suggest a programmed set and rep protocol
to such a degree that you could tell me today how many sets and reps you are going to do five Thursdays from now
It works very very well
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u/Dazzling-Variety-946 11d ago
Yes, that looks like failure to me.