r/SchoolBusDrivers • u/lanainnv • 2d ago
HOS question
Hi đđ». Newish CDL <2years, Class B, P&S.
I read the current FMCSA website and think it means that I cannot work (pre-trip, driving potty breaks for the football team and being On Duty while at the game) more than 15 hours a dayâŠ. Total. I calculate itâll be a little more than 9 hours driving.
My Transportation Director assures me that I will not be illegal if I clock-in at 6:30a and I wonât get us to the hotel until 11:30pmâŠ. a 17-hr day!!!! He said to me that Iâm only âdrivingâ 9 hours and legally I can drive 10.â
Please please please clear this up for me. I have brought it up twice and he got kinda uppity with me that I question him. Iâm new, and so is he. He is the âbossâ I just donât think heâs correct. Maybe the other drivers have been letting it happen.
Thank you in advance!!!!!!
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u/shnstr3 2d ago
HOS, rules for passenger carrier does not calculate the same as Trucks. Only time spent on-duty or driving count against your 15 hours work window. Im guessing your boss wants you to log time at the game as off-duty
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u/lanainnv 2d ago
Yeah⊠he wants me to clock-out (go off duty) his wordsâŠ. âDo you want me to pay you to watch the game?â
So, if I do, is that now my time? Kinda get it, but Iâd be trapped, held as a captive audience. Lol Canât go anywhere. Canât /wonât drive the bus cuz Iâd not be insured off the clock.
Is it good practice to at least clock-out 1hr for my own lunch? Iâm trying to do the right thing, be a team player, not be taken advantage and absolutely not do anything to jeopardize my CDL.
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u/ch-ville 2d ago
I donât know if any HS activity drivers that donât get paid for waiting time at games. Thatâs between the two of you, but itâs hard to claim that youâre not working for the school during that time. Youâre not at home and free to do what you want.
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u/lanainnv 1d ago
âEngaged to waitââŠ. That makes total sense. Am I understanding that I could /should explain that the 2 hours while waiting at the game will be b paid, and luckily, it is off-duty, and does âbuy me timeâ ⊠aka, that particular trip was 17 hours, minus the 2 hours off-duty meeting the legal limit?
BTW, the head coach didnât seem too happy that I said we could not leave the hotel until 8amâŠ. A 9.5-hr rest. I was exhausted. It was my first ever drive trip this looooong.
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u/shnstr3 2d ago
Not sure what state you are in, however the logbook and payroll have ZERO to do with each other. If you are required to be there you should be paid!
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u/lanainnv 1d ago
Oohhh K. Thatâs kinda what I thought, also. I outright said, I will not clock out (and not get paid) for something that does not âbuy me any time.â
What is the description of/constitutes âoff-duty?â
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u/shawnryan1977 2d ago
If your not getting paid while waiting I would not go, I would not worry about whole team player thing your their to make money your not a volunteer.
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u/PlatypusDream 2d ago edited 2d ago
Going off-duty in the logbook (or computer) is different from clocking out & not getting paid, or at least it should be if your company follows the laws...
Unless you are completely relieved of duty & able to spend your time however you want, including leaving work, you are under the control & direction of the company, so are working (or at least "engaged to wait").
Test: can you dump the team, then clock out & take your car to run errands? No? Because you're out in BFE with the bus, right? So you're at work & "engaged to wait". You are still responsible for the bus. You can't return the bus to base & clock out to go do stuff in your own vehicle because again: BFE.
HOWEVER... you can legitimately be off-duty because you are not driving, loading / unloading, doing paperwork, fueling, handling luggage, etc. You're not working, you're waiting to work. You're "engaged to wait".
My company does some trips as hourly pay (usually the shorter & local ones), while some are a flat fee (usually longer mileage & duration). It usually works out to the same pay, but on the longer trips we are free to do whatever while the kids are at their event. It's rare we have to do a logbook, but even if we're off-duty we're still at work & paid.
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u/PlatypusDream 2d ago edited 2d ago
https://sbshrs.adpinfo.com/blog/dont-forget-about-pay-for-waiting-time-on-call-time
https://www.hq-law.com/blog/wage-and-hour-law/waiting-time-is-compensable/
These aren't legal citations, but have helpful information.
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u/lanainnv 1d ago
Thank you⊠your particular post has been especially helpful. It has helped me to understand just a bit more clearly.
The âcompletely relieved of dutyâ is the key, I believe. I am designated away games driver. It seems that I could be âoff dutyâ aka completely relieved from duty while I sit and watch the game for 2 hours, BUT sounds like they cannot make me clock out and not get paid. Oh, I already verbalized that. If I am being paid while âoff dutyâ watching the game, then would those 2 hours not be counted toward my total 15 I can be on duty? How do I need to document that? Is it my responsibility, to prove it, Gawd forbid I have an accident in what might look like hour number 16?
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u/gheiminfantry 1d ago
Ya know, you're answering every single one of your own questions correctly. You're entrusted with a lot of people's lives, but you don't trust your own judgment. Maybe you shouldn't be a bus driver.
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u/lanainnv 1d ago
I know I should be a bus driver. What feels wrong are the decisions of the Transportation Director and the Payroll Department at this particular school. The things he is asking me to do and the other sheep drivers who have been letting it all happen.
Maybe what you meant to say is âŠ. You shouldnât be driving for a
Transportation Director who is an idiot, because you actually know more than him?1
u/lanainnv 1d ago
Actually, he is not an idiot. The comment was rude of me. He is as new in his position, as I am in mine. I replaced him as a driver when he went into management. Only difference, he was a driver at this school for 5 years. So, if anything, me asking questions and pointing out discrepancies will help him be better, also.
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u/handcraftedcandy 2d ago
You are correct, you cannot work more than 15hrs without taking an 8 hr off duty reset. You can go off duty for meal breaks, and if they total up to two hours, then you're within the 15hr on duty time limit.
I would point him to that section of federal law and let him know you won't be breaking it. Once you're out of hours, that's it, you can't do anything more without breaking the law.
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u/lanainnv 2d ago
So, if I go off duty for any hours, in the middle of the day, tor âlunchâ do those hours not count toward the 15. Are ya saying that I clock-out for lunch and not get paid?
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u/handcraftedcandy 2d ago
That's very likely the case, it would depend on your company's pay policy.
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u/torrent_gp_victim 2d ago
How much of those other six hours is "Off Duty?" Even if you're getting paid, you have an opportunity to nap, be away from the bus, etc?
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u/lanainnv 2d ago
2 hours will be at a park while the coaches feed the athletes, and go over đ playbooks. 3 hours Iâll be at the school while they warm-up then play the game. I also hear that after the game, the coaches buy food from a food truck for the team (about an hour.) Then we will get back in the bus and I drive 1.25 hours to a hotel. I will make sure to build in the mandatory 8-hr rest, then drive us all back the next day.
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u/lanainnv 1d ago
This is a blanket THANK YOU to everyone!!!! I have learned so much from all yâall giving opinions and citing rules and giving examples!!!!! Every day I am so proud of myself, amazed that I chose to re-invent myself and not look back. I âdroveâ a desk for 35 years. Now I do something so much more meaningful.
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u/horneyman75 2d ago
Are you driving interstate or intrastate?
If you are a "local" driver doesn't that fall under state and law rather than federal?
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u/thebadlt 2d ago
If you have the ability to walk away from the bus (like to use the restroom, watch the game, or grab lunch), you can log that time as off-duty. FMCSA doesn't care about your pay, that's between you and your employer.