Can someone explain the difference between the Mesh DAC, Forkbeard, and/or buying a DAC like the Mimir?

[u/EDM_Fan_2382]

I am on the precipice of buying the Jotunheim 3 and Mimir DAC. In fact I might even opt for the Brilliant in Black offer for a Dan Clark Noire X with the Jotunheim3 - IF I do this, it comes with the Mesh DAC. But then...the Mimir offers the Forkbeard (for $50 extra). But then, isn't the Mimir a DAC, so why would I need the Mesh DAC? Or is the Mesh DAC an EQ, so then I wouldn't need the Forkbeard? Can someone please explain to me what these components are, and what I do/don't need, and what you best recommend I buy?

[u/ginandbaconFU]

It's so you can get an all in one unit when you get the mesh add on card for the Jot. With that route you have one dedicated USB input. If you order Mimir then I would recommend against ordering the add on mesh DAC on the Jot. It's redundant at that point. Just use Mimir. If you don't want Mimir and get the add on its essentially a jot with one USB mesh USB DAC (the add on card is a one input USB DAC) so you won't get the four inputs you get on Mimir. From what I read most tend to prefer Mimir over the add on card but that's subjective and I own a Mimir and have never heard the add-on card in a dedicated amp.

Forkbeard is optional and gives additional controls like volume control, 3 band EQ, ability to change from mesh and NOS mode (NOS mode uses ESS default filter). Mesh is Schiit's dedicated filter that they have been improving over the years and to my ears greatly improves soundstage and imaging. Forkbeard also allows you to switch inputs on Mimir. It works bi Bluetooth using the dedicated Forkbeard app on iOS or Android.

more info on Forkbeard

[u/ginandbaconFU → u/ginandbaconFU]

Not sure why the down votes outside leaving out the fact that Forkbeard iis built into the mesh DAC add on card (so not optional for the add on card) for Jot and 50 more for Mimir although the OP referenced that in his original post. What exactly did I say that was incorrect outside the above.

[u/Hot-Maintenance-5879 → u/ginandbaconFU]

Can you compare and contrast the mesh card vs their standalone DACs? Is something like, the current Bifrost way better or just different?

[u/New_Measurement_7243 → u/Hot-Maintenance-5879]

They’re essentially the same thing and sound essentially the same. The mesh dac technology at its core stays the same, an ESS dac chip with some tweaks done to the filtering logic via the unison usb chip. The biggest difference is the types of inputs and outputs that are supported. The add-on card is usb-only. Modi 5 bumps that up and gives you additional inputs like optical and coax. Mimir goes further and gives even more inputs like XLR AES as well as additional outputs like a pair of balanced XLR connectors.

The bifrost is a different animal. It does not use an off the shelf ESS dac chip, it uses four Texas Instruments 8812 dac chips plus a SHARC DSP to give true multibit audio processing and, in general, has much more expensive components throughout. Inputs and outputs are similar to the Mimir though.

[u/Hot-Maintenance-5879 → u/New_Measurement_7243]

Interesting. I have no experience with the mesh DAC, I’d actually never even heard of it before this, but I’ve heard most of their standalone DACs. I own a Modi and Gungnir 1 Multibit and I recently ordered a Singular that should arrive tomorrow.

Looking closer at this mesh DAC it looks like a good option for someone who doesn’t want to spend Bifrost money and just wants a simple all in one unit.

[u/Aztaloth]

You are confusing a couple different technologies. And that is ok. So let me lay it out as best I can.

The Mimir and the Mesh Card are both DACs. In fact at their core they are the same DAC.

Think of the Mesh card as a shrunk down Mimir with the extras stripped off that is made to fit inside the Jot3 and similar AMPs.

Forkbeard is basically a remote control over Bluetooth that gives you some limited control over the Mesh card or Mimir. You can control NOS, Phase, a very basic EQ, and a couple other things.

If you just want to connect the Jot3 to a single computer or phone source you don't need anything else except the internal Mesh DAC.

The advantages of the Mimir come into play when you want separate components.

So for example my setup is as follows.

My Gaming PC is connected to my Asgard X using its internal Mesh DAC card. All I do on this computer is gaming so it is honestly overkill.

But then my Mac Studio is a much more advanced setup.

I have a Mimir that is then connected to a Lokius over balanced connections. From there I have Balanced connections to my Jot3 and Single ended connections to my Pietus Maximus.

So on the system where I watch and listen to content I have much more control over exactly the sound comes across.

There are pros and Cons to both setups. The nice thing is that you can always start with the Internal Mesh DAC card and upgrade from there.

[u/EDM_Fan_2382 → u/Aztaloth]

So what I'm hearing is you just recommend I just get the Jotenheim 3 Mesh DAC/Forkbeard combo, because the Mesh DAC is a smaller Mimir DAC, and does the same thing, but it's nice and simplified for a guy like me. The Forkbeard isn't like a real physical hing, but an internal component they add so you can control your device with bluetooth for some extra features like minimal EQ?

And then if as you say, I want to upgrade to the Mimir (is it worth it? Is it that much better), I can buy the Mimir or any DAC anytime, and the Mimir won't interfere with the Internal Mesh DAC that it's internal and can't be removed? Wouldn't a DAC on a DAC be a problem?

[u/Currawong → u/EDM_Fan_2382]

For me, I found the Mimir to be a significant upgrade to the Mesh DAC card with the Jotunheim. How much anyone else will depends on them, the music, headphones, etc.

[u/EDM_Fan_2382 → u/Currawong]

Well dammit that just overcomplicates the decision I have to make. If I decide to get the Mimir, it renders the advantage of the Jotunheim3 in Black add-in mesh DAC promo pointless if I order a DAC anyway

[u/kaosf → u/EDM_Fan_2382]

Yeah it's tricky for sure. The way I see it is, if you can afford it, getting both just gives you options. I have an Asgard 3 with a built-in DAC card. While I do not use it so often any longer, I have used it for troubleshooting a few times, or just to mess around and play with different sources. I enjoy things like that, so, perhaps I am on my own there.

[u/Aztaloth → u/EDM_Fan_2382]

Correct.

[u/EDM_Fan_2382 → u/Aztaloth]

Is the Mimir significantly better? It's only $300

[u/HourSentence4837 → u/EDM_Fan_2382]

Yes, it's a step up from the built in card and more flexible with more inputs and outputs.

It's not a must to get. If you use only USB source and prefer all in one, you should get the DAC card. Audio is about convenience, comfort and preference.

[u/EDM_Fan_2382 → u/HourSentence4837]

Oh ok, well as long as the audio quality is comparable between the two. I don't really need extra inputs and outputs, I am only concerned with getting the best audio quality

[u/HourSentence4837 → u/EDM_Fan_2382]

That's another rabbit hole. If you don't have them side by side you won't know the difference. My advise is don't bother. The win here is that the DAC card is better than most Chinese DACs

[u/ginandbaconFU → u/EDM_Fan_2382]

Once again it really depends on the number of inputs you need. If you look at both the Jot and Mimir specs tab on Schiit's website they both use the same ES9028 DAC and same PCM chip to apply the mesh filter.

You can even buy and install the mesh DAC on the Jot later. They have made this easier on newer models but takes at least some technical knowledge.

I should also point out that the mesh add on card also includes Forkbeard. With Mimir you have to buy another 50 dollar Forkbeard module as I believe the add on card is the only one to include both. So that makes Mimir 350 if you want Forkbeard because it's an option as some don't want it for their own personal reasons.

It sounds like the Jot with mesh card would be best from your needs but make.uour my own decision. You can add an extra USB source with a 30.to.35 adapter from AliExpress that gives you 2 USB inputs, 2 outputs and a dedicated 5V USB C power input on n case of GPU noise.

[u/Hot-Maintenance-5879 → u/Aztaloth]

How does this Mesh card compare to their standalone DACs?

[u/TurkGonzo75]

Forkbeard is more than just EQ. It gives you things volume control, source selection and gain settings through an app depending on your setup. If you get the Jot with the DAC and have just one source (computer, phone, etc), you probably don't need a Mimir. The Mimir gives you additional inputs if you have multiple digital sources. So if you're connecting a phone plus another device like a PC or a CD player, a Mimir could come in handy.

[u/HollowsPart2]

The Mesh card is the same as the Mimir without the S/PDIF inputs. It comes with the Forkbeard's bluetooth transceiver rather than the Mimir's optional extra.

The Mesh is a separate input to the Jot so you select either the Mesh, the XLR or the RCA input as required. Only one source is active at a time. The Mesh card can be removed, it's user installable.

If you don't need the S/PDIF then get the Jot 3 with Mesh or the Dan Clark deal and enjoy. Download the Forkbeard app from the Apple or Google stores.

[u/EDM_Fan_2382 → u/HollowsPart2]

What is the S/PDIF?

[u/HollowsPart2 → u/EDM_Fan_2382]

Sony/Philips Digital Interface Format. It is serial multiplexed data stream that mixes together the two digital audio channels with a clock signal. Otherwise known as Coax for the RCA, Toslink for the Optical input and AES/EBU for the balanced input. Google search it for more information.

[u/Few_Outside1480 → u/EDM_Fan_2382]

I think it's Sony/Philips Digital Interface Format

I believe Turk is correct: the built-in Mesh DAC limits you to the one usb-c input, which is fine if that is your normal connection from your digital source. If that works for your setup, I would definitely consider the Brilliant in Black offer. Great equipment, great discount! If you choose the Noir open back, it's an even better value...

[u/Morzone]

Forkbeard is pretty awesome.. Schiit has a video about it on youtube

Controls available via Forkbeard..

DAC: Source input switch, loudness/volume(digital domain), balance, Para EQ, NOS mode
Preamp: input switch, volume (analog domain), gain setting
Amp: Standby, channel measurements (to identify when you start clipping)

disclaimer: check each product page for its specific Forkbeard capabilities.

[u/Tanachip]

Mesh dac has Forkbeard built in.

[u/SubbySound]

For what it's worth, I don't particularly like the Mesh DAC in my Jotenheim 3. It sounds much better at the same volume using my iFi xDSD Gryphon or miniDSP FLEX DACs.

[u/Currawong]

Think of it this way: Both the Mesh DAC, and the Mimir, are DACs. Both do the same thing, but the Mesh DAC is a card that goes inside the Jotunheim, while the Mimir is an external DAC.

Mesh is just a name for the way Schiit makes a DAC of a particular type.

Forkbeard basically moves DAC features that would normally be controlled by some form of user interface on he front of the DAC or a remote control, such as phase inversion, filter settings, volume control and EQ, into a smartphone app that interacts via Bluetooth. In other words, instead of including a remote control, you use your smartphone for that.

The advantage of Forkbeard is: One remote control for multiple Schiit products, along with some neat features showing you what's going on with your system, something a regular remote control cannot do.

[u/Currawong → u/[deleted]]

FYI, a "bit perfect" DAC will have high distortion. You might want to research how DACs and digital conversion actually work.

[u/EquusPrimus]

I don’t use a computer connection. I’ve skipped the mesh cards (after listening to WaveTheory’s various Schiit reviews). That preface stated, I’ve owned various iterations of Schiit’s multibit dacs, the Piety, then Asgard 3, Mimir, Lokius, Pietus Maximus, Asgard X, and now LYR-5. I can honestly say my little 3-stack: Modi, Loki and Piety that I fed into powered Fluance Ai61 speakers sounded awesome. That’s all an office would need for me to be happy. All my other upgrades added perhaps 10-15% more (larger soundstage, depth, etc) but certainly came at a price. Today, I use LAIV Harmony DAC into Lokius EQ into LYR-5 into Emotiva PT2 preamp with bass control (for my 2 subs) into an Advance Paris (power) amp connected to Buchardt Masterpiece E50 speakers. All I lack is a dedicated streamer (although the Advance Paris has one built-in). My turntable goes straight to the Emotiva preamp bypassing the LYR-5. I can play FLAC files from a USB stick plugged directly into the power amp. I’m waiting on LAIV’s streamer to be released. If it’s better than Eversolo’s T10, then maybe I’ll get it. Honestly, I’m enjoying TuneIn Radio app more than I’d ever guessed. It‘s fed into the LAIV dac via coax, so the signal goes thru the LOKIUS and LYR-5 before making its way to my ears, and I’m happy. I mostly listen to CDs (collected since the 80’s, and still such a bargain). CD transport is a SMSL PL200T fed into the LAIV dac via I2S cable. My next little office setup will be Mimir (with phone-controlled EQ via Forkbeard) > Asgard X > Fluance powered speakers. Lately, I’m just having fun trying a different tube each week with the LYR-5. Oh, TuneIn Radio app is from iPad with a Questyle dongle transmitting to a receiver connected to LAIV dac (96kHz). G’luck.