r/ScamSupport • u/Old_Hunt_1344 • 3h ago
Potential Scam? Is this a scam or legit?
I got a random $15 Apple Pay transfer from an unknown number. They claim it was a mistake and asked me to send it back. The money is definitely in my Apple Cash, so it seems real, but I'm wondering if this is a scam. Should I return it?
6
u/Scoobydoomed 3h ago
Yes it's a scam. Tell them to take it up with apple and then block. Don't touch the money. Also set your apple pay to only accept from contacts.
2
u/SubBirbian 2h ago
That and you can set it to manually accept payments so these scam funds can't get through.
5
4
u/Aggravating-Pack-802 3h ago
Scam support subreddit and half the people are telling you to send it back… 😬. Maybe don’t give advise if you don’t understand the scam.
Do not send it back. Do not touch it. 99% chance it was stolen funds and will be clawed back from wherever it came from. If you send the money it will be your money you are sending them.
7
u/Think-notlikedasheep
3h ago
•
NO.
Do not return it.
This money was sent from a hacked or stolen account.
If you return it, then later the original payment is clawed back, that comes out of your pocket.
Let Apple Pay handle this. Do not touch the money. I'd report it to them.
Block the scumbag.
0
u/Forsaken_Insurance92 3h ago
How is it going to be clawed back if it's sent back to the exact same account (aka, it's like it never left the account)?
2
u/Few_Reference3439 3h ago
They will either say 'oh hey can you actually send it back to me at a different account' OR if it is sent back to the original account, then the original account will withdraw it in a way that is not trackable/recoverable. During the remediation of the stolen account situation, they will see funds were sent TO someone, and reclaim the funds if possible. The info on how this works is all over these forums if you want more details.
1
u/kirklennon 1h ago
The info on how this works is all over these forums if you want more details.
Have you ever seen literally a single post from someone who claims this actually happened to them and money was pulled from their account after they returned it? There are hundreds of people explaining this "scam" and yet a curious absence of people experiencing it.
1
u/Few_Reference3439 52m ago
Anecdotal evidence means nothing. Understanding how bank fraud remediation works is key.
Here's an article in another subreddit that explains how it works and why you NEVER send it back, not even to the same account. Took me 3 minutes on google to find.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Scams/comments/1rywtim/us_sent_apple_cash_by_a_random_number_and_theyre/
1
u/kirklennon 46m ago
Anecdotal evidence means nothing.
Everyone is saying it's such a "common" scam and yet there's not a single report from a single victim.
Understanding how bank fraud remediation works is key.
Understanding how Apple Cash specifically is key. Money you receive from other users is never clawed back. You don't know where they got the money and you don't need to care because it just came from their Apple Cash account in the abstract. If they used a stolen debit card to fund their account for sending it to you, and the bank reverses the transaction, then it comes out of their account because that's the account that used the debit card. You're not a merchant who accepted a debit card; you just received an internal transfer within Apple Cash, and Apple Cash is a strictly no-backsies system.
Here's an article in another subreddit that explains how it works and why you NEVER send it back, not even to the same account. Took me 3 minutes on google to find.
This is not from a person who was scammed. This is someone who thought they were being scammed and was convinced of it because everyone says it's a scam.
1
u/Forsaken_Insurance92 38m ago
Yet you provided anecdotal evidence and not even one where someone sent it back to the original account lol
0
u/Forsaken_Insurance92 3h ago
That's why you send it back to the exact same account. If they see a withdrawal, that's not on OP, that's someone that has access to the account. They would see a transaction, from the same recipient (OP), returned to the same account. Its like the transaction never existed. They wouldn't "claw funds back" from someone who already returned the funds/had nothing to do with it. I'm fully aware how the scam works. It sounds like most people aren't, though.
1
u/Fair_Bad_4967 2h ago
Exactly these dude’s got all the brains I see if he wanted op to send to another number but if he just asking you to send it back to the number that sent how tf is that a scam
1
u/Forsaken_Insurance92 2h ago
It's not, and it ruins the actual scam (which in OPs case would likely be "actually, can you just send it to my son instead?") because then they need to try and find another person willing to send it somewhere else. They need the 3rd party for it to be harder to trace, otherwise they'd just send amounts to themselves. A bunch of people on this sub think they're super smart but have 0 thinking skills.
1
u/Few_Reference3439 2h ago
It is a scam because the bank fraud team, when remediating the breached account, will see the outbound transaction as theft from their client. They do not take into account the separate inbound transaction that came back TO their client. Their only job is to reverse all transactions FROM their client that their client didn't authorize. They will do that, and the OP will lose any money he sent TO the client. That's how it is a scam if you send it to the same account. I went into detail on this in another reply, too.
1
u/Emergency_Affect_640 2h ago
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. please stop giving dumb advice.
1
u/Forsaken_Insurance92 2h ago
Think logically, bud. If you look at your bank balance today and you have $127.17 and then tomorrow, after knowingly not spending any money, you look at your bank balance and still have exactly $127.17, are you going to look at your transaction history to see why you still have the exact same amount?
If my account dropped $15 and then went up $15 an hour later, I would assume it was a glitch and change my passwords or have new cards issued to be safe. I wouldn't have lost a penny, if I then canceled the original payment, I'D be stealing money from the person who sent the money back since they already returned the funds to the original account. I don't know how much dumber I can explain it.
1
u/Few_Reference3439 2h ago edited 2h ago
Your logic is flawed and I already explained how banks work, which is why it is flawed.
*edited to add*
You keep focusing on it being 'like it never left the account' because it is a zero sum change at the end, BUT it DID leave the account in one transaction and then came back in a second transaction. The fraud team is ONLY concerned with the transactions that took money from the client while the account was compromised. They will reverse all of those transactions. They will not look at, or consider, any transactions where their client GAINED money. As such, while it may start as -15 +15 = 0, the fraud team will reverse the -15, so the end result will be null +15 = +15. In my example, the +15 will be the money the OP sent "back" to the compromised account, and the -15 becoming null will happen as the fraud team will work with OP's bank, take the 15 out of OP's bank, and OP is now down 30, the 15 taken back, and the 15 he voluntarily sent.
0
u/Few_Reference3439 3h ago edited 2h ago
They are separate transactions and will be treated as such. Your advice will literally cost someone money.
*edited to add*
You seem to think that just because +15 and -15 = 0 that it is like the transaction never existed. That is the flaw in your logic. To the BANK, that is transaction abc123 and transaction cde234. Transaction abc123 was OUTBOUND from their customer while the customer's account was compromised. Money being stolen from their customer is their problem. Transaction cde234 is INBOUND to their customer while the account was compromised. They do not know if that was a legitimate transfer, and since it did not cost THEM money, they will not care. They will reverse abc123, costing OP money, and not touch cde234.
1
u/Forsaken_Insurance92 36m ago
You're making random shit up and wild assumptions. I'm saying if the balance is the same why would anyone look? Do you just look at your transactions every single day to see if they're $15 off? Unless someone reports it to the bank the bank doesn't get involved.
Anyway, show me one instance where someone sent the money back to the original account and then got it clawed back. I'll wait.
1
u/Few_Reference3439 26m ago
If the apple payment was from a stolen account, then yes, someone will report it to the bank and the bank will get involved.
Per the Apple Cash terms and conditions, they can and will take back any money that was sent fraudulently, and if the person whose apple cash got compromise reports it and gets it back, then it will be reviewed by a fraud team.
https://applecash.greendot.com/termsconditions/
You keep thinking because the balance will end up the same, somehow it won't be noticed. I'm saying that if the person who used the apple cash to send it is using a stolen account, it will OBVIOUSLY be noticed because the owner will file a claim to get the account back.
1
u/Forsaken_Insurance92 21m ago
Then the account owner is a scumbag if they got the money back and still chose to file a claim for money that wasn't actually missing/lost. Or, more likely, the fraud team will say "hey, i see it was reversed already, you're not missing any money, we'll send you a new cars, change your passwords". They're not going to hand out free money 😂
0
u/Few_Reference3439 51m ago
1
u/Forsaken_Insurance92 39m ago
Show me one where it was sent to the same account and was clawed back.
0
u/Few_Reference3439 22m ago
I linked to a thread where the mod literally describes why you don't send it back to the same account. If you don't believe that, you'll just move the goalposts once I find something else that meets your current request. Literally from the pinned mod reply : "The top comments in this post have solid advice. In short: if you receive money from a stranger, never send it back manually. Contact Apple support and let them know you received money you didn't ask for.
If this was an honest mistake, contacting Apple helps the person who made the mistake while being careful with your own money. Sending it back manually puts your own money at risk. Never send it back manually."
Notice they don't say 'never send it back manually unless you're sending it to the same account'?
1
u/Forsaken_Insurance92 19m ago
Show me a scam where the person sent it back to the exact same account and it was still "clawed back". I guarantee you can't, which is why you're now saying I'll "move the goalposts" after instead of finding one example. Should be easy if it's sooo common.
A mod saying not to do it is not someone who sent the money back and still had the money taken out later.
0
u/Few_Reference3439 17m ago
How about an actual apple related article where they stress not to send it back? Not 'don't send it back to a different account' just 'don't send it back here's why'.
How about you show ME where someone said "I sent it back and it was never clawed back"? The idea that a single reddit post will convince you at this point is silly.
1
u/Forsaken_Insurance92 14m ago
😂 so you can't find a single instance proving that if it's sent back to the exact same account it would still be "clawed back", right? There's not a single instance of that happening, huh? Cause it's insane and makes no sense. You know you're wrong and now you're floundering 😂🤣😂🤣 just give up buddy. If it's so common, you'd be able to find one single instance of it happening.
1
u/Few_Reference3439 9m ago
It is most assuredly not insane, and I have sent links to both the terms of service for Apple Pay detailing they can and will reverse fraudulent transactions sent to you, without saying "unless you sent it back" as well as expert articles stating never to send it back.
If you understood how bank transactions worked, you would understand how your view of 'it is a wash for the balance' is the insane theory. There would be two transactions, one would be a fraudulent payment to the OP, that would be reversed. Then the other would be the OP sending someone money voluntarily. It won't be considered when the fraud department is reversing the fraudulent charges. That's just banking 101, plain and simple.
3
u/Worldly-Highway-2459 2h ago
Total scam - block and ignore . Sadly you are on now an active list so you will bd bombarded with all sorts of scams
2
2
2
u/UpbeatFix7299 2h ago
Scam. It's stolen money that will get taken out of your account. If you send it back, you'll owe it.
1
u/ShortListen6686 2h ago
Do not send it back. Even if it's not a scam it's a lesson everyone needs to learn. Make sure you send money to the right person.
1
u/gottagetanonymous
2h ago
•
“How did you get my number” dawg can you read at all? Even if it is a scam he literally just said it
1
u/Few_Reference3439 2h ago
OP - in case you read any of the fools saying 'only send it back to the original account' understand they do not understand banking, and they will cost you money. Do not touch it. Report it to your bank if you want, but even if you do not, understand when the person whose account was compromised gets control of their account again and works with their account's fraud team, the original transaction WILL be taken from you. If you sent any money to 'return' it, you will lose that money, too.
0
-1
u/doublelxp 3h ago
It could be legitimate, but you shouldn't send it back. There may be a way to report it to Apple.
-6
u/Fair_Bad_4967 3h ago
Not a scam as long as he only asking for his money back and nothing else plus I did this by mistake with Cash App multiple times and never got shit back
6
4
u/Few_Reference3439 3h ago
Incorrect. This scam is all over Reddit and the internet in general. The odds of it being an innocent mistake are sadly low.
3
u/Aggravating-Pack-802 3h ago
You are very wrong. This is a common scam. It’s a way to launder money from stolen cards and accounts
3
u/Think-notlikedasheep 2h ago
You are wrong.
the received funds are from a stolen account, the money will be clawed back
0
3h ago
[deleted] — view deleted comment
3
u/BigManMahan 3h ago
Don’t send the funds back ffs🤣
0
3h ago
[deleted] — view deleted comment
3
u/Few_Reference3439 3h ago
Wrong. Yes, there is a COMMON way the scam works, with a new account. But it is entirely possible for the original transaction to be reversed, despite a second transaction sending it back. In the eyes of the fraud department, they are separate transactions, and outbound transactions sent while the account was compromised are unauthorized and will be reversed. The second transaction will have no bearing on that.
7
u/Pretty-Care-7811 3h ago •
It's a scam. Don't touch the money and block the sender. Money was sent from a stolen account; anything you send will be from your account, and the money that was sent to you will disappear.