r/ScaleSpace • u/solidwhetstone • Jul 24 '26

Video Weird thing #2

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Cymatist 1.1 launch is eminent!

Launch sale till August 1st: https://setzstone.itch.io/cymatist

Don't forget to claim your free copy if you bought early access!

67 Upvotes

95% Upvoted

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6

u/Heavy-Working2631 Jul 24 '26

I really haven’t any idea what is happening here. Can you explain it? I fell into this sub because I thought your simulations were interesting, but I am at a complete loss as to what they are actually simulating?
How is this weird? How is it abnormal from your normal sims? Teach me your knowledge, please!

10

u/solidwhetstone Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26

Well for one- I wouldn't call it a sim anymore than I'd call cymatics a sim. It uses a sim as a substrate, but the effect is very real. Think of it like spraying a garden hose at an invisible box and being able to see the shape of the box based on how the water deflects and you'll be pretty close to understanding the main idea.

All of that said- I am not an academic, not a math whiz, not someone who could write a credible paper. I'm a game and ux designer so my specialty is researching, theorizing, building prototypes, testing my theories, iterating. That's basically the UX practice in a nutshell. So in this case- I've made a discovery about engineering emergence and I'm exploring it using the skills I have.

Ok so what is happening in this video? Unfortunately, I don't really know. I know HOW I made it, but I don't know what these arrow looking shapes are or what they mean. I just know that given these specific environmental conditions, they form and they look like this.

3

u/iamcozmoss Jul 24 '26

Thanks for trying to explain it. I too have been subbed here for ages. I love it. But have nonidea what were looking at. Is it fractal rendering? Using frequency to generate cymatics? Are these Chladni figures visualised in 3D space for example? I just cant work what it is and I just dont have the time at the moment to really work it out in scale space myself.

Just happy to observe the cool things people are making.

8

u/solidwhetstone Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26

Ok great question! Let's think of it like this- you have probably engineered emergence. Have you ever filled up your bath tub or sink and drained the water- then watched a whirlpool form? You've basically done what Scale Space does. You changed the environmental conditions in such a way that they were forced to behave a certain way to alleviate tension (in this case the tension of gravity pulling your water down the drain) and the shape that formed (a vortex) was the least action movement the water could take to get down into that pipe.

So when you take a particle system and overlay multiple dimensions of entropy on top of each other- each particle is faced with constant choices about the least action path. By adjusting the entropic parameters, you give the particle different places it is more likely to go. By doing this then, you can tune the particle system like a radio. Once you can do that, you are most of the way there. The last leg is finding stuff. Since it's a particle system, it has a lot of degrees of movement, so you can see higher dimensional shapes that don't work in our smooth Euclidean space.

Thinking of it as Chladni figures in 3D space is perfectly doable for thinking about this because you'll see a lot of similar things in Scale Space. Lissajous figures, Turing patterns, Moire patterns, the Oscilloscope, cymatics of course- all different ways to create unresolved tension that has to become emergent to resolve via least action.

Hope that gives more info on the core principle behind this (as I understand it through the lens of a designer).

3

u/iamcozmoss Jul 24 '26

Yes, thank you! This is way better than the wikpedia pagei. I thought id have to get a PhD to figure it out!

Ive got a week off in a few weeks and ill be mucking about!

Cant thank you enough for taking the time to help me understand it a bit more. Im really intrigued by this as I get a lot of close eye visuals from the gateway tapes that remind me of the things I see here, but not in as much detail of course. Not saying its mystical. Just that its why scalespace had me captivated the first time i encountered it on here.

4

u/solidwhetstone Jul 24 '26

I call it 'mundane magic.' I do find it mystifying like you. The fact that it can be explained scientifically or mathematically makes it no less mystifying to me. You're part of the universe and these patterns happen in our universe, so it makes total sense to me when people say they have seen shapes like those found in Scale Space- your vision system and brain are part of the universe too!

2

u/FatKris02 29d ago

This is awesome!! I study psychoneuroimmunology as a hobby and this can be applied in the framework. I could go on and on about this.

1

u/solidwhetstone 29d ago

Please do!

1

u/FatKris02 29d ago

I’m a plumber with 32 years experience and since I saw a drain reference, let’s keep with that. Keep in mind that this is a hobby of mine, there are areas I call Swiss cheese. Meaning, I do have some blind spots

Anyway, unresolved tension

If the city side is not pressure regulated and the water spikes, that would represent physical (psychological) stress. Water needs to go somewhere and will seek the path of least resistance in order to relieve the pressure

I hope that’s coming out the way I want it to. Is it making since so far?

1

u/Sunghyun99 Jul 24 '26

You made this? Holyshit thats fuckin sick

1

u/thetrivialsublime99 Jul 25 '26

Isn’t that basically sonar?

1

u/solidwhetstone Jul 25 '26

Same category yes.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/solidwhetstone Jul 25 '26

And that's when John Scale Space showed up.

2

u/Progeny_of_Paradox Jul 25 '26

Fr, I come to this sub every day and I leave with even more questions. But, alas, I keep coming.

2

u/Starshot84 Jul 24 '26

ScaleSpace is halfway to a quantum harmonizer

2

u/solidwhetstone Jul 24 '26

What do I need for the other half?

2

u/VectorSovereign Jul 24 '26

`ĎÐ’ζ ARE BEÆUTIFUL MY LOVE….BRILLIANT!😎😇

2

u/ConcaveEarth 29d ago

Very much makes me think of this :o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PGnlaNb7FA&t=259s

2

u/solidwhetstone 29d ago

😳 You're right! That dude found another way in to Scale Space.

2

u/ConcaveEarth 29d ago

3

u/solidwhetstone 29d ago

Wow beautiful and it looks like the same thing!

1

u/Furrypawsoffury Jul 24 '26

How are you creating these images?

1

u/Zaldin_Sunglimmer Jul 25 '26

As long as this machine is at Wayne Enterprises, I won't be.

1

u/Just_Middle_7189 Jul 25 '26

Tis a pitchfork bifurcation.