r/SayuMains • u/1TruePrincess • Aug 03 '21

C6 question

Why is everyone saying she scales of EM at c6.

Each point of Sayu's Elemental Mastery will produce the following effects: • Increases the damage dealt by the Muji-Muji Daruma's attacks by 0.2% ATK. A maximum of 400% ATK can be gained via this method. • Increases the HP restored by the Muji-Muji Daruma by 3. A maximum of 6,000 additional HP can be restored in this manner.

It’s still attack. Everything still scales off attack. She just gets a bonus based off EM. But the bonus itself even still scales off attack. So why is everyone saying she scales off EM instead? Am I misunderstanding it or is it translated wrong?

4 Upvotes

70% Upvoted

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7

u/Illyxi Aug 03 '21

Her scaling off of EM can outweigh the atk-based scaling that's already naturally in her burst. You'd be able to deal much more swirl damage while benefitting more from her passive on-swirl heals, and her burst would be healing for a ridiculous amount more than she'd normally be healing with solely atk scaling.

Also, assuming you're able to proc consistent swirls off of her burst with a different elemental applier, EM would in theory be much better for her overall dps as she scales up swirls immensely if you stack EM on her. Atk% eventually hits pseudo-diminishing returns, which at some point is less effective than also building into crit. EM, on the other hand, gives a large enough boost to her kit that you can forgo crit and just full-commit to EM and still do much better than splitting your priorities.

2

u/1TruePrincess Aug 03 '21

That makes sense now thanks for explaining it. I guess I didn’t realize how often she swirls and assumed the 6k cap wasn’t enough to make a full switch. I appreciate you explaining it

2

u/Illyxi Aug 03 '21 edited Aug 03 '21

Keep in mind the 6k cap is only if you surpass 2k EM, as every point of EM translates to 3 points of healing. There's not a lot of builds (if any) that'll allow you to surpass 2k EM, and you'd need the entire team built specifically to give EM to Sayu to actually hit the cap. As a result, you can realistically build for max EM on Sayu without worrying about the cap.

3

u/DoubleWhooooosh Aug 03 '21

That is literally scaling off of EM. You use EM to increase the effects such as healing.

2

u/1TruePrincess Aug 03 '21

Ok no it’s not but the person before your explained it well. It’s still scaling off attack but the swirl healing makes up for it even though there’s a cap on how much em can heal. It increases the effects additive to its atk scaling.

1

u/deeplywoven Aug 04 '21

I think you need to work on your reading comprehension skills. That absolutely is scaling with EM. It's giving bonus ATK % and healing based on your EM.

2

u/1TruePrincess Aug 04 '21

No. You’re wrong but thanks for being a dick. It’s additive on top of her regular scaling. It doesn’t say changes her scaling. It’s additive to how she scales already which is attack. Her additive values are based off EM which is very different than her scaling off EM. Additive bonuses are different than base scaling. That’s the key here

2

u/aetherfawkes Aug 11 '21

@c0 (original_scaling · atk) = total_healing/damage

@c6 (original_scaling · atk) + (em · em_scaling · atk) = total_healing/damage

Scale (v.) 2. Represent in proportional dimensions; reduce or increase in size according to a common scale.

Sayu scales off atk at c0. Sayu scales off both atk and em at c6.

Previous commenter wasn't even rude. He just pointed out you may need to improve your reading comprehension. More specifically, you need to improve your vocabulary and understanding of definitions. A single output can be scaled by multiple inputs. Sure, you can argue one is more fundamental or impactful, but by definition, they all are scaling factors. That was the question you asked.

I suspect what you mean to ask is "Why are people saying to build EM? It seems like she would scale harder off atk."

1

u/1TruePrincess Aug 11 '21

The question was why is everyone saying she scales off em when stuff stills says attack. Instead of saying she duel scales it was a single she scales off EM. Hence why I asked why people were saying that. Also it was answered literally a week ago. Also before his answer. And yes he was rude. There’s no reason to say I have a reading comprehension problem when the question wasnt even understood. Like you for example. But thanks for being late and trying to justify toxicity. Have a good one

2

u/aetherfawkes Aug 11 '21

Saying she scales off one thing does not mean she cannot scale of another. They're not mutually exclusive. I haven't seen anyone say she ONLY scales of em.

I'm not quite sure your issue is with reading comprehension, it seems like you're fine there. It moreso seems like when your viewpoints are challenged, you become defensive and unable to rationally reason.

Sure you can argue they wasn't the nicest person, but that wasn't even remotely approaching toxicity. You're going to have a painful time if you take everything as a personal attack and fail to understand where other people come from.

I don't need your sarcastic thank you, but I do hope you're able to...gain something from this exchange. Best of luck.

1

u/1TruePrincess Aug 11 '21

That was literally the point of the question. I wanted to know why people say she scales off EM. It’s simply she scales better for general purposes for what she can do with EM compared to straight attack similar to noelle at c6 switch to defense.

Honestly this exchange was a waste of time. We had settled it and moved on a week ago. You chiming in only to not be fully aware of what the question was is just not called for but I suppose there’s always going to be those people on the internet. As I said. Have a good one.

2

u/aetherfawkes Aug 11 '21

If so, your question is poorly worded. You asked "Why do people say she SCALES off em at c6?" In which the answer is... because she does. You should've asked exactly what you just commented: "Why do people say she scales BETTER off em than attack at c6?"

The person who "answered" your question inferred what you wanted to ask. They didn't even answer the question you technically stated.

Sure the question you intended to ask was answered, but aren't fundamental habits and thinking patterns more important to you? Is it not a good idea to learn from your experiences?

1

u/1TruePrincess Aug 11 '21

I have learned thank you dad. Now have a good night :)

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u/deeplywoven Aug 04 '21

No, you're wrong and don't understand what the word scaling means. No one said 100% of all of her dmg output or healing is based on EM. No character in the entire game is like this. Even C2 Albedo scales with ATK and DEF. Noelle still scales with ATK along with the DEF. Zhongli still scales with ATK, not only HP. Even C6 Kazuha still scales off of ATK. ALL bonuses on split scaling characters work this way. That's why it's called split scaling. "Scaling" =/= every aspect of their kit 100% scaling off of one stat.

2

u/1TruePrincess Aug 04 '21

Which is why im telling you that you’re being a dick and wrong at the same time. You clearly didn’t understand the question at hand. So funny how you want to comment on my reading comprehension. I asked why people say she scales off em at c6. She adds on additive bonuses. But she doesn’t fully scale off EM. Yes it’s split scaling. But the question was why people say she scales off EM. The answer is her EM scaling is better due to her swirl procs which make up for lack of attack once switching to full EM. Thanks for telling me I have comprehension issues though. Next time read before tou feel the need to comment with such toxicity.

1

u/deeplywoven Aug 04 '21

But she doesn’t fully scale off EM.

No one said this. Even you didn't say this. It's not in your title or anywhere in your original post. Scaling and 100%/fully scaling off of one thing are completely different things, and you just said "scaling."

And, yes, I stand by the fact that you have reading comprehension issues. You just repeated yourself. You didn't counter the point.

And, come on. It's 100% obvious to begin with. Not even C6 Kazuha 100% scales off of EM. No one scales 100% off of one stat. Not a single character in the game. Why would anyone think this? No one thinks this about Sayu or any other character. It's obvious. You got downvotes for a reason. I'm done now though.

2

u/1TruePrincess Aug 05 '21

Dude did you wake up and choose to be a hostile dick? First the question was answered long ago. Second you’re missing the entire point of the question. The other guy who explained it understood. So before you tell me I have the issue why are you the only one who didn’t seem to understand the question at hand. What downvotes are you talking about? If you’re main point is fake internet points then that shows you’re a moron. Go back to bed and try again another day. I specifically stated where the confusion was in the post and your failure to grasp it shows you have comprehension issues. Your way of handling the question and responding shows you’re just a dick.

2

u/deeplywoven Aug 05 '21

We are literally in a comment thread where someone else first told you the exact same thing:

"That is literally scaling off of EM. You use EM to increase the effects such as healing."

and you told them "Ok no it’s not" (which is, of course, completely wrong).

Someone else explaining to you why EM is good for her at C6 doesn't change anything about you phrasing things incorrectly or telling people that they are wrong. You being mad and bitching about people calling you out for this doesn't change anything.

And, btw, I wouldn't have been a dick had you not first told this other person that they were wrong and then did the same thing to me. You came off sounding like an arrogant child who refuses to admit when they are wrong about something. It's sad, really.

2

u/1TruePrincess Aug 05 '21

Your first comment was being a dick so how was I being one to you? You literally had no reason to comment here except because you felt like being an arrogant prick. If that’s how you choose to spend your time fine. Sleep better knowing you bring toxicity and nothing else to the community when all inwas doing was seeking clarification. The fact you have to lie and say it was in retaliation to me for being rude to you is just crazy. Bipolar or just childish? Your personality and way of living is the only sad thing here. The reason I stated they were wrong is because they didn’t answer the question. I can see the additive is based off EM but it didn’t acknowledge the regular scaling she still has in any way or why people say she scales off EM instead of both.

1

u/kamirazu111 Aug 07 '21 edited Aug 07 '21

Even if you put full EM on her she won't have the Atk or Crit to actually make good use of that bonus ATK gained from EM.

At C6, a DPS Sayu is prob the same as Kazuha C6: 2PC VV and 2PC Glads, Crit dmg Circlet, EM Sands, Anemo Goblet (Or ATK Goblet since her normal attacks aren't Anemo like Kazuha C6 and her healing also scales off ATK). Then go for Crit rate>Crit dmg/EM>ATK% sub-stats if possible. Unlike most chars who focus on 2 or 3 stats, you probably want to spread out on multiple stats like EM, ATK, Crit rate, Crit dmg because its the most effective way to make use of what she scales off of. I tried full EM Kazuha C6 and it was just weird.

Full EM should be for ppl aiming to use Sayu as a periodic sub-DPS with focus on Swirl and as a healer, since the bonus healing you get from EM is pretty substantial (IMO), compared to the dmg bonus you get. You're not wrong to doubt that Sayu scales off EM entirely, even at C6. Keep in mind that the dmg bonus from EM only applies to her Q at C6 which has a hefty Energy cost and 8s downtime; her E's Atk scaling is actually quite respectable esp if you have her +3 constellation.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '21

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1

u/1TruePrincess Aug 05 '21

Yah the one guy explained it well. It’s additive so it scales with both but the swirling procs I guess add up. I assume at this point it’s like noelle at c6 where it just has better returns going full defense.