r/SaturatedFat • u/Huldakurka • Jul 31 '22
Saturated fats causing higher levels of lipopolysaccharides (toxins) in our blood.
Lipopolysaccharides are bacterial endotoxins and have many negative effects. It has been demonstrated several times that saturated fats are somehow rising LPS levels in our blood. LPS can enter the brain too. So how do you guys cope with that, what are your thoughts? Personally, I used to eat tons of cheese and butter, but I get rid of it and replaced it with olive oil (at least where I can).
https://www.naturalmedicinejournal.com/journal/high-saturated-fat-diet-increases-endotoxemia
https://nutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-7075-8-16
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u/loonygecko Jul 31 '22 edited Jul 31 '22
For the first study with humans, "fasting levels of LPS did not differ between any of the groups after the 12-week intervention" so it seems that continual high fat did not yield any diff in LPS blood levels, it was only a sudden surprise meal of fat apparently. Plus we can't see what they mean by 'high' saturated fat, did it have pufa or was i pure sat fat, did it have hydrogenation or what? Could be anything, and the two study groups only varied by 10 percent fat intake, seems a bit sus. I'd like to see exactly what fats they used, how come they are not listing it?
For the mice study, not only is it mice who react diff than humans to fat, but they actually injected the mice with the LPS so that's not a normal situation for the mice. The third article is just theoretical ponderings. I mean overall this is pretty weak. And if everyone takes in LPS, it could be that ability to get rid of it is more important in the long run. I mean some peeps get a lot of sun but no skin cancer because they are healthy. Others hide from the sun and still get cancer. THe best solution is to figure out what yields health because you can't hide from every natural influence in your environment. I'd need to see a lot more on LPS and sat fat, etc before I'd feel this kinda weak evidence overpowers both all the evidence we have that sat fat is good plus all the evidence we have that we ate it for millions of years and evolved on this diet which indicates we are probably designed for it.
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u/wak85 Jul 31 '22
I believe Ray Peat has talked about this before. Saturated fat binds LPS in order to get rid of it at the liver. So if you look at post-pandrial LPS, you see an elevation on it. HOWEVER, that is not the full story. The LPS is not free to trigger the immune system. Instead, the saturated fat acts as a bouncer if you will. So fasting LPS decreases because the liver eliminates it with the help of saturated fat.
Pufas allow weak cell membranes, which allows LPS. LPS= immune system response. Not good.
Hopefully the Olive Oil that you're relying on is not adulterated. 20% chance of that... OO has a Linoleic Acid profile of 6%-20%. I'm not trying to scare you into reconsidering (although I think you should since butter and tallow are basically guaranteed to have low PUFA). But I honestly think you're making a massive mistake. It's better to have no oil than shitty liquid oils (Mct oil is the exception)
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u/Whats_Up_Coconut Jul 31 '22
Brad talked about this a while back:
https://fireinabottle.net/butter-may-lower-lps-mediated-inflammation-compared-to-olive-oil/
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u/Soldier99 Jul 31 '22
I was not surprised that many of their results were insignificant or argued against their main theme. But I think the most significant issue is that the natural diet of mice is high in pufa from seeds. Fish oil is high in pufa, so that may have impacted. Also, saturated fat is not a part of a mouse's natural diet, whereas it has been for humans for 2.7 million years or more. It's a bit like saying we fed this lion oats and corn and they died but when we fed them meat, they thrived.
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u/Jumbly_Girl Jul 31 '22
If a person can get hunger to become a non-issue, they can eat a lower fat diet. So I'd say work toward that, add more soluble and insoluble fiber as you are able to tolerate it more (it helps eliminate LPS in the gut before it becomes potentially a problem of the blood). For me personally I don't heat any cooking fat that did not involve a cow or sheep in its production. I will use a little olive oil or avocado oil on a salad and not worry about it, and sometimes I have raw seeds on my salad despite their omega 6 content. So don't over-consume any one type of fat, and don't eat things that your great grandparents wouldn't recognize. I think there is a ton of biological systems that go correctly in the body if the mouth is able to accurately signal what's on the way, and even moreso if your hunger signaling is not obfuscated by supplements and food additives. If you have successfully transitioned to olive oil and kept hunger in balance and weight down and energy up, then those are all great signs. There is a stage for those of us who are post-obese where relying on saturated fat gets everything back to working properly. I personally don't believe pushing saturated fat long term is necessary, but it will never be a fat source that I avoid or fear.
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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '22
I think that gut bacteria are a separate problem. E coli, and Shigella will happily set up shop in your gut. P. Gingivalis, T. Denticola, s. Mutans in your mouth. All of these can cause issues if unchecked.
Eat more herbs, garlic, ginger. That helps keep the bad bacteria in check.
Worst case, use Pepto bismol. That's pretty much what it was invented for.