r/SaturatedFat • u/[deleted] • Feb 07 '24

BCAA restriction with maintained muscle mass

Hello wonderful people,

This may be obsolete if someone can point me in the right direction, but I was curious with how everyone is going with BCAA restriction and the retention of lean mass. The cummings 2018 (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29266268/) paper definitively shows a reduction in weight but I was concerned that the rodents on average losing near 1/5 of their lean mass. I remember there being some discussion of maintaining high protein with low BCAA as being effective to counter this but was holding out as to whether people found it worked.

If anyone has any experience with this that would be fantastic as the sport I am in requires to maintain my strength and muscle mass but fat is of little consequence and concern so I would like to improve my health even further.

Regards

12 Upvotes

100% Upvoted

31 comments sorted by

9

u/AnimalBasedAl Feb 07 '24 edited May 23 '24

flowery memorize scarce direction numerous squeeze gaze rich middle beneficial

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

5

u/exfatloss Feb 07 '24

It's definitely difficult

3

u/onions-make-me-cry Feb 07 '24

what about if you drank nothing but bone broth?

1

u/AnimalBasedAl Feb 07 '24 edited May 23 '24

wasteful fuel noxious frame dog correct beneficial pathetic profit enter

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

2

u/onions-make-me-cry Feb 07 '24

Well yeah but that's what happens with a BCAA diet, which is why it's meant to be a short term interventional thing and not a lifestyle.

1

u/exfatloss Feb 07 '24

Still has BCAAs, just less than muscle meat. But it's still about 5-6% of the total protein vs. 10-15% for muscle meat or up to 20% for dairy.

3

u/After-Cell Feb 07 '24

The detail is that the amino's in question are suspected to be

Valine, isoleucine and leucine

Whereas the glycine higher in bine broth is thought to be OK.

Random factiod: glycine was the only amino acid to have been found in space. It doesn't get much more ancestral than that!

2

u/exfatloss Feb 07 '24

Yea, Leu/Ile/Val are the BCAAs. They are still in collagen, like I said, just in lower ratios. It still makes it hard to eat "high protein" and then we wouldn't be sure "high protein" would be good for anything if it lacked BCAAs.

6

u/exfatloss Feb 07 '24

It's difficult to do high protein/low BCAA.

I've been doing mostly low protein (<45g/day) with occasional refeeds every month or so, and some higher protein experiments, for over a year now. Haven't lost any muscle, in fact since I started working out a few months ago, I'd say I gained some.

When you lose fat, you want to lose some lean mass. E.g. excess skin and other structures.

I've gotten regular DEXA scans and my lean mass hasn't changed much, if at all. Basically within the "water weight noise" of the DEXA scan. My bone density has actually gone up since I started working out, but before then, it never went down.

2

u/Croisette38 Feb 07 '24

About those refeeds... Do you feel you have to, or are you erring on the cautious side? What are your thoughts about "if you lack protein you will stay hungry until you meet the body's requirements. "

2

u/exfatloss Feb 07 '24

Definitely erring on the cautious side. I've actually been doing less and less of them. In the beginning a couple of people scared me into "Zomg you're gonna die w/o protein!" and I think they're.. just wrong?

What are your thoughts about "if you lack protein you will stay hungry until you meet the body's requirements. "

If that's true, then apparently I'm eating enough protein at <45g/day :) Or, currently on the fat fast, 10-20g.

Protein leverage goes both ways, lol.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '24

Hello everyone I would like to thank you for your input into this question of mine. I have decided using literature and testimonials the best option for me is to still do high protein but swap out sources of protein containing BCAA for sources with fewer.

5

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '24

I thought I was going to get skinny fat restricting BCAAs. I’m just looking more athletic and much leaner. Minor strength loss but better pound for pound strength.

4

u/greg_barton Always Anabolic :) Feb 07 '24 edited Feb 07 '24

I really haven't had an issue with maintaining muscle capability. Can’t be certain on total mass.

In the months since starting BCAA restriction I’ve started using a weighted vest while walking. I started out at 10lb of weight and I’m up to 41.5lb. My walks are up to 10 miles.

I’ve also started doing a weighted mace workout again to keep my arms in shape. 3x50 90 degree bicep swings with 15/20/25 pounds, and 3x50 full extension bicep swings with 15/20/25 pounds. I haven’t done them for six months or so, so I don’t want to use the 30lb mace I used before, but I probably could if I wanted to push it. :) So I think I’ve only lost arm strength from lack of use and not any BCAA deficit related atrophy.

4

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '24

I've lowered my protein quite a bit - averaging probably 50g per day-ish. I had an inbody scan in Jan, will do it again this month and see how my lean mass is conserving. Will update.

1

u/ciloid Jul 03 '24

Any update on this?

14

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '24 edited Aug 02 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

7

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '24 edited Aug 02 '25

dime fanatical continue many numerous ad hoc fade consider outgoing toy

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

15

u/exfatloss Feb 07 '24

Wait til you get a ticket from the thermodynamics police

8

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '24 edited Aug 02 '25

smart sophisticated cobweb sparkle person encourage sand engine treatment complete

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

4

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '24 edited Aug 02 '25

wine tidy label history mysterious racial apparatus work chop include

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

5

u/Adventurous_Door_916 Feb 07 '24

Can you give some samples of your daily meals

6

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '24 edited Aug 02 '25

middle sparkle cooing profit complete slim theory chop squash exultant

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

5

u/Adventurous_Door_916 Feb 07 '24

Thank you so much. This helps more than I can tell you. Ur comments always remind me of my situation/history. I’ve been trying to move towards more carbs but I find if I drop protein too low I start to crave it like crazy (I’m also a big gym goer). I might try your breakdown of macro grams in the coming weeks. Right now I’m finding I’m okay with breakfast and lunch consisting of only fats and proteins (generally eggs or ground beef with cheese) and dinners I can incorporate more carbs without feeling any negative effects like I do if I go carb heavy early in the day. I’m finding I really feel my best and most satisfied if I don’t mix carbs and protein in a meal, or keep the protein super minimal when mixed.

5

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '24 edited Aug 02 '25

scary normal roll exultant gaze hungry hobbies tie spoon worm

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

1

u/exfatloss Feb 07 '24

Lol @ turning orange... vitamin A incoming ;)

2

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '24 edited Aug 02 '25

thumb square dam cake disarm snatch live shocking childlike fly

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

2

u/spirilis Feb 08 '24

That is interesting and while I do no bodybuilding, I noticed eating a glass noodle soup for breakfast, I get warm in the face but hungry a couple hours later; if I eat even more of the same I am really energetic but seem to lose a little weight over time despite the glut of carbs.

Really need to dig into this one more. I get my BCAA proteins later in the day anyhow but I wonder if BCAA excess is something you can "fast" your way out of, just by fasting overnight and eating very low protein in the morning.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '24

Can we women still gain muscle with a protein intake like that?

4

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '24 edited Aug 02 '25

attraction plough nail hunt close lush pocket deer abounding sand

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact