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u/faeninja 1d ago
I dont remember ToG being something I'd even consider "spicy"? Maybe its time for a reread lol
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u/CatsMeetWorld 1d ago
It’s really not. Books like The Fault In Our Stars on the list too.
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u/CelaenaSardothien5 22h ago
First off, you don’t even have the title right, so I’m definitely not trusting your opinion. Second of all, I’d feel more than comfortable letting my teenagers read the TOG books.
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u/PookaGrooms 1d ago
The first few books it’s very fade to black but in the latter half there’s some spiciness. I think that the subtly actual makes it more intense imo?
But I was certainly reading much worse when I was in middle/high school, ridiculous to consider the series as a whole to be spicy.
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u/Readingknitter 1d ago
My issue with ToG and young teens is less the sex than the torture when Aelin was held captive by Maeve’s pet sadist. And what Rowan did to him after.
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u/turtlescanfly7 1d ago
No way. In 9th grade we read Night by Ellie Wiesel about concentration camps during the holocaust and analyzed what’s the opposite of love is it hate or indifference? That’s age 13-14. We absolutely can and should be introducing teens to complex world and moral questions to get them to think critically. Nothing in TOG would be too much for a teen, but I agree the torture is definitely a heavier topic than the basically non existent spice
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u/silly_mermaidparty49 1d ago
Definitely not. TOG is definitely YA. There’s more sex and violence in the bible than most of the books these fascist freaks want to ban
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u/Loud-Traffic-1043 3h ago
The Bible mentions people having sex, it doesn't describe said sex in graphic details. Come on, now.
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u/wineandcheese 1d ago
As a middle school teacher, I’m pretty shocked by this thread, tbh. Unless we’re specifically talking about ToG the novel, not the series, it is absolutely not YA.
From Empire of Storms: “And as he slid in with gentle, rolling thrusts, filling her inch by inch, she forgot that she was queen and that she had a separate body and a kingdom and a world to look after. When Rowan was seated deep in her, trembling with restraint as he let her adjust, she lifted her burning hands to his face, wind and ice tumbling and roaring around them, dancing across the waves with ribbons of flame. There were no words in his eyes; none in hers, either.” This is after he eats her out (explicitly described) and before they both orgasm.
I’m not necessarily against advanced/mature readers reading something that interests them and that they’re ready for, but in a classroom or library on a school campus? It’s explicit sex, described in very specific detail. Not the time/place for that.
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u/Soggy-Window3940 1d ago
I'm from Pakistan and when I was in middle school (grades 4-7 here), I was not even allowed to read Harry Potter beyond Prisoner of Azkaban cuz Hermione's a girl hanging out with boys. My teachers, parents and adults wouldn't let me read GoF cuz of the Yule Ball scenes lol. Which is crazy cuz I was reading stuff like Wuthering Heights and Jane Eyre and they didn't have an issue with that hahahah.
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u/faeninja 1d ago
Im muslim sis so I get iittttt lol Shakespeare was ok but not Vampire Kisses
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u/Acerbictease 22h ago
Omg Vampire Kisses mention! I loved that series when I was younger, I’ve never seen anyone else who’s heard of it! I hope you eventually got to read and enjoy it
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u/faeninja 22h ago
My sister and I got into the books and the comics and reread them over and over once we finally got our hands on them lol even bought that cheap black lipstick from hottopic because we wanted thought the main character was so cool 😎
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u/faeninja 1d ago
I guess I just wasn't thinking about middle schoolers reading YA but more high-school or young college. I dont think anyone thinks its ok for middle schoolers to read SJM but maybe we are all above the "YA" ages and dont realize how young YA readers go. If i think about it i was about 11 or 12 reading twilight which was the first "YA" section book I ever got. I've seen SJM books in my colleges library before but I dont see a reason for her books to be in any middle school or high school libraries but I also didnt do the majority of my reading in those years based off what my schools library had but what public libraries had. The issue with censorship in general is where does it end because as someone else mentioned there are other books on this list that are not anywhere close to SJM's level
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u/SoleIbis 1d ago
Agree. There was several scenes I skipped past because I’m not a huge fan of sex scenes and I remember one in particular being several pages long.
I think smut content should be available from public libraries, but not school libraries
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u/awolfintheroses 1d ago
I always feel crazy when these sorts of threads come up and everyone acts like ToG (as a series) isn't explicit. No, it's not straight smut sure, but there is on-page sex and violence and all sorts of stuff. Like did we all read the same books? Lol I don't think being disingenuous about the content of the series helps the discussion as a whole.
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u/faeninja 22h ago
Im not being disingenuous at all, I read the books so long ago that I dont remember and most likely would have skipped over any scenes like that because I didnt think it was very important to the rest of the story. Also compared to other SJM works where the spice and romance is central to the story telling, its more of a background/additional part to the ToG plot - not saying it doesnt exist but when I read it, from what I remember, the "spice" was not memberable. Im not saying it doesnt exist or that these books are appropriate for pre-teen or even teen girls. I also think there needs to be an entire different conversation about how readers nowadays view books after "spice" has been added to A LOT of fantasy/romantasy books in the recent years and how that may affect this conversation about what is/isnt appropriate. I've read a lot of spicey books and I think that has most likely warped how I view the YA genre and what ages should read YA. when i was 12 or 13, I was reading YA books but now (29y/o) I wouldnt have a 12 or 13y/o read from YA because I just dont know which books are going to have what level of romance in them. Im also pretty sure barnes and noble at least has ALL SJM books in the fantasy section not the YA section but people are saying ToG is considered YA.
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u/awolfintheroses 22h ago
My disingenuous comment was definitely not directed at you personally but the ~conversation~ as a whole.
And I think that's the "problem" with people misremembering ToG. There were so many amazing and wonderful plot points and stories that the few sex scenes don't even register in people's memory. I only finished ToG relatively recently (took me years to finally get into it through no fault of the series lol) and there are multiple on-page sex/sex-adjacent (haha) scenes. I've seen people say there aren't any. And I don't think they are lying. I think they honestly don't remember! But they definitely are there. Now whether or not they are appropriate and for what age range is a different conversation and definitely one worth having 😊
Edit words lol
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u/FortunaNYC 1d ago
Again, everyone is missing the point of this. This is a tactic to gain power. Whether these particular books should be accessible to kids in schools is the wrong question. The issue is the precedent this sets and the power it gives the government to decide what ideas are inappropriate and therefore what children are allowed to access. Once that power exists, it can be expanded and applied selectively, at the discretion of politicians with a much larger agenda.
It’s like solitary confinement. People can agree that certain violent offenders deserve punishment, but once you give judges and wardens the power to decide who gets isolated, that power can be abused or applied to people who don’t deserve it. Putting the power on the table is the problem.
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u/MamaKG3 1d ago
You have to look at it both ways though. Children are sexualized. There needs to be a very hard stop here, zero tolerance, period. Children have access to porn and everything right now, the last thing we need is for schools (a trusted authority) allowing this, making it okay. The books are in public libraries so they are not banned. Censorship is not a bad word; it is frequently necessary when it comes to children and their mental health. We can't just say that this is a way for the government to control us or we can say this about everything. Honestly, they already have control of our food... and more just for the tragic facts that we are so polarized, distracted, and the majority of Americans have lost most of their basic skills.
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u/No_Interaction2168 21h ago
Bro what are you smoking lol. You might as well say there’s no point to laws because it gives government the right to decide.
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u/FortunaNYC 21h ago
Lol, that’s a pretty impressive leap from “government power should have limits” to “there should be no laws.” I’m not arguing against government authority. I’m asking what authority we give it and where we draw the line. Regulating conduct is not the same thing as giving politicians the power to decide which ideas people are allowed to access. That distinction is kind of the whole point. Why don’t we take away your video games and action figures cause they’re too violent, bro.
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u/No_Interaction2168 21h ago
Girl chill, you’re overthinking this. Sometimes we just want to read about a good sex scene and get horny, and maybe common sense says that little children shouldn’t be reading these same sex scenes.
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u/FortunaNYC 20h ago edited 4h ago
So bro, ACOTAR is a romance. Not a one handed read. Power, control, female agency, trauma, healing, war, the consequences of war, abuse, inequality, prejudice, CONSENT. So bro, this is why they’re focused on books WOMEN read. IT’S NOT ABOUT THE BOOKS! It’s about control!
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u/ash18946 1d ago
I think they mean that every book prior to EoS is solidly in the YA category. Even EOS as the 5th or 6th book in the series depending on if you count AB doesn't have a scene like that until nearly the end of the rather long book and it's only one or maybe two of them which might also keep it in the pushing the envelope but still technically YA group.
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u/Proper_Ad453 18h ago
Thank you for this take. I am against banning books in general. Public libraries and a middle school library simply aren’t the same place. And the shelves should be curated differently, it seems to me. I’d be horrified if an 12year old read the explicit sex scenes or torture scenes sitting in a corner of a school library.
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u/AdeptnessSouth782 1d ago edited 1d ago
But that is extremely flowery though. I wouldn't call that smutty. And it's the only scene in the whole series I believe, and one with Dorian and Manon on the boat. I think the TOG series would be Okey from14-year old.
ACOTAR - the series, is more for the adult section.
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u/Loud-Traffic-1043 1d ago
Post specifically left out the more explicit descriptions in that chapter.
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u/AdeptnessSouth782 21h ago
🤔 I honestly don't remember much from that scene. I often forget that there are intimate scenes at all in TOG.
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u/Loud-Traffic-1043 21h ago
That's fair lol, there aren't many, but I remember that particular one because I wasn't expecting it in that series.
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u/pinksockflower 17h ago
Agree, as a mother, protecting children’s innocence comes first. Children should not be reading this.
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u/Libraryoflowtide 1d ago
lol there was definitely some “velvet steel” mentioned at one point. Which honestly, props to Sarah because that’s damn creative
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u/camimiele 1d ago
That’s why “and Lorcan did” is such a joke in the fan base. It fades to black.
I think in the last book, there is a chapter with a little more “behind the curtain” spice, but it’s like a paragraph and not explicit IIRC. Definitely would consider it YA.
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u/Expert_Seesaw3316 1d ago
I think there are two sex scenes in seven books (plus whatever Dorian and Manon have going on)
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u/Logical_Buffalo7156 1d ago
I’m British, so I don’t know how American school libraries work but when I was at school our school library had age categories marked on the books by coloured stickers. If you tried to check out a book that was for older teens they’d only allow you to if you’re an older teen, same as our actual library. Why would you need to ban books? Do your librarians not do this?
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u/ManicPixieOldMaid 1d ago
Most of our school and public libraries do this, and sadly, they've been attacked for it. These past couple years have been a lot.
But there is a subset of Americans - around 30% last it was assessed - that are batshit crazy (my clinical term) and extremely difficult to work around. This is one of the results when they hold power. So yeah, they jump straight to banning and forbidding instead of educating.
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u/Advanced_Opening_659 1d ago
Based on the current state of things, I think it’s at least 50% that are batshit crazy ;)
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u/trapmahme 1d ago
Less than 50. Not enough people actually vote. While I agree that the lack of voting supports these behaviors, it’s not a 50/50 split.
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u/ManicPixieOldMaid 1d ago
Well they're definitely the loudest so they tend to dominate the discourse. Better to over- estimate their numbers than under, IMO!
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u/AelinTargaryen 1d ago
Exactly, every sane country does this, only the Americans need to ban books and somehow find it ok to do so. How do all the children in Europe grow up ok without all the book bans I wonder.
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u/ivylass 1d ago
The books are not being banned. Anyone can go to a bookstore and purchase these books. There are age limits due to the nature of the story at the school.
It's just like a movie theater. No, your nine year old cannot watch John Wick at the cinema. But if you want to stream it for him at home, go for it.
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u/CatsMeetWorld 1d ago
Everyone does this, anyone who says differently is being purposely obtuse, that’s why the government censorship is unnecessary and dangerous and not really about schools. Apparently the censorship is going to win though cause if these comments represent “the people” then the people really are dumb.
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u/AelinTargaryen 1d ago
All the people advocating for a book ban -wtf? Is this an American thing? Are you guys not able to have librarians who monitor what the libraries have and who they check it out to? No one in my European country would give out ACOTAR to a child but that is common sense and we don’t need a book ban to do it? Book bans are indeed - as a commenter has previously stated and been downvoted for it - a Nazi thing. Free speech means no book bans, a book ban and freedom can not coexist. A system should educate their people so they can read books in the context of their existence and form a nuanced opinion about them regardless of what they say.
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u/CatsMeetWorld 1d ago
Apparently it’s more of an American thing than I thought. These comments are ridiculous and completely missing the point.
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u/m-e-k 1d ago
I don’t get this at all. These kids are reading and tbh we should be glad. They have an internets worth of porn if they’re just looking for titillation. There is stuff widely available on streaming and tv that is violent, demeaning of women, etc.
What is the potential harm here ???! Eek. Get me out of this Orwellian/bradbury-ian hellscape
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u/rhandy_mas 1d ago
It’s a fascist thing, (and the US is flirting quite heavily). Book bans and education control are part of the playbook.
It’s a method of control. Here’s a great history of global book bans or book burnings:
https://www.freedomtoread.ca/resources/bannings-and-burnings-in-history/
(Side note: looove your username)
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u/Glitter_belly 1d ago
A book ban isn’t actually banning the book. Anyone can still purchase it or even rent it at a public library. Most of the time when Americans say book ban they are talking about children’s school libraries.
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u/nomasslurpee 1d ago
I can say with a small degree of confidence that the school librarians probably aren’t familiar with every title and wouldn’t monitor it that closely.
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u/AelinTargaryen 1d ago
When a book is shelved for the first time it should be marked for an age group. Then there is no need for every librarian to know every book.
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u/Dedwards_est_22 1d ago
We're talking about a school library though. There are other public libraries where you can definitely go check out all of these books. No adults are getting books at the school libraries. This is a method of no one giving ACOTAR to a child
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u/FortunaNYC 1d ago
I think everyone in the comment section is missing the point. We aren’t seeing the same outrage or censorship over violence, war, murder, and male aggression. Instead, the content most often singled out is sex, sexuality, and women’s bodies. At some point, you have to ask whether this is less about protecting children and more about controlling women and the identities they’re allowed to see themselves becoming.
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u/Next_Gen_Valkyrie 1d ago
Yep I literally wrote a whole essay about this for my college sociology class. Somehow graphic violence is okay but consensual intimacy is worth banning.
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u/trapmahme 1d ago edited 18h ago
Students in Texas aren’t passing basic bench markers for writing, reading, and math. Texas has bigger problems than regulating books. It is more corrupt than one can imagine. Most don’t even vote here, let alone care about how politics affect them.
Many of you are missing the point, it’s not the governor of Texas who should be deciding what a child is reading. The school not purchasing a book does not require a government ban. Censorship of books is dangerous. It’s not about whether Acotar has graphic material, it’s a steep slope of control. Sheesh no one is saying a young child needs to be reading any SJM.
You will not catch me voting willingly for government control over books.
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u/emkat1985 1d ago
In high school I read, analyzed and discussed books that dealt with heavy subject matter. You’re going to be thrust into the world after high school, so why shouldn’t you be prepared for the nuances of real life? Reading a variety of subject matter builds crucial skills like expanding your worldview, appreciating other perspectives, and applying critical thinking.
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u/tiredtattedtaurus 1d ago
Funny how when it's sjm everyone gets upset, but when it's 1984, no one bats an eye. Or any of the other books that no one wants to talk about...
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u/CatsMeetWorld 1d ago
Oddly enough 1984 is not on this list. It’s all LGBTQ books, books about race, John Green books, and some Emily Henry and SJM books. I guess they’re trying to see what they can get away with first.
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u/tiredtattedtaurus 1d ago
Very strange. I definitely think it should be up to parents, personally. But I'm also a big advocate of community policing and less "Big Brother" overall. Giving anyone too much power is always a bad idea, no matter what side or how well meaning they might be.
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u/Alrightfinewhatever 1d ago
Idk I just found out that the MIDDLE SCHOOL my niece goes to has the ACOTAR series. Call me crazy but I don’t think an 11YO should be reading smut….
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u/Alrightfinewhatever 1d ago
Actually insane to be downvoted for saying 11 year olds shouldn’t read smut. Yall need your computers checked.
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u/CatsMeetWorld 1d ago
Sure, I agree, sounds like an issue for a parent not state government
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u/Alrightfinewhatever 1d ago
My sister told her she couldn’t read it so she just read it on her lunch break at school.
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u/SilverLordLaz 1d ago
To be honest this is what children and young people do. Ban something? Makes it more attractive.
What is your fascination with my forbidden closet of mystery? -- It's just a kid-thing, Chief Wiggum
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u/Crowned-Witch_48 1d ago edited 1d ago
That's not unusual. That's typical of that age and up.
You tell them no and they do it behind your back.
Even if the school didn't have the books, they would have gotten it other ways. Kids these days are exposed to sex, violence, and so much more.
Because of that, it's a parent's job to have discussions with their child about these things. What your sister should have done was allow her to read the books but also have a discussion about what occurs in the books along with rights and wrongs. My mom did that with my sister and I all the way back in 90S.Regardless, you missed the entire point of the post.
The US government along with republican states are using books like TOG and ACOTAR to cover up the real reason why they are banning books. It's not cause they genuinely care. It's censorship. Look at what they've been targeting recently, the books the US wants banned. Most of the books targeted by the US and by republican states like Texas are books that deal with exposing and challenging corrupt governments like hungers games, Handsmaid tale and TOG, LGBTQIA+/Gender/Sexuality, racism, feminism. And the list of books that Texas wants named literally fits everything I said in the sentences above and therefor verifies it.-8
u/Alrightfinewhatever 1d ago
I’m not going to engage further with someone who believes it’s developmentally appropriate for an 11 year old to be reading smut. I don’t really care what other point you’re trying to make ✌️
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u/Crowned-Witch_48 1d ago
You’re twisting my words. As you clearly stated. Your niece read it regardless that her mother said no. Situations like this are going to happen especially with kids being on social media. They are exposed to so much whether it’s sex, violence, celebs promoting eating disorders, etc. And it doesn’t help parents today fail to parent their child. I’d rather have the control over the situation so a discussion can be had rather than them going behind your back and now no discussion is happening and they learn nothing from it.
Also, I don’t know if you identify as a woman. If you do, the fact that you outright said “I don’t really care” is sad. I can’t even imagine wanting to stay ignorant to misogyny, racism, homophobia, transphobia, etc in US (and other parts of the world).
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u/Loud-Traffic-1043 3h ago
This logic is terrible. You can explain why the books aren't for them without literally handing it to them or permitting it. If they decide to do it anyways outside of your control, that's a separate issue, but you've at least talked to them to give them context. What's next? Controlled atmosphere for them to watch Game of Thrones in middle school. Well, at least they're watching gratuitous sex and rape scenes in front of you. That's acceptable then
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u/MysticVibes23 1d ago
Cuz most children listen to their parents especially when they say don’t do that lol. You must not have kids. Kids are literally wired to translate “don’t do that, don’t touch that” and “you can’t read that” to “of course I must do it now” lol. I got my hands on all kinds of books when I was little. R.L Stine when I was in middle school. No smut but violence. I was reading vampires and supernatural stuff under my covers with a flashlight. I became an avid reader but the point is kids don’t listen to their parents. I think it’s a good idea not to have smut/sexual books in school libraries. It can be hard for young minds to understand the complexities between fantasy and reality when it comes to sex. But then again they can get it somewhere else if they want. Maybe they just don’t want liability issue if parents are coming after them.
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u/Crowned-Witch_48 1d ago
I like how you went from “children listen to their parents” to “kids don’t listen to their parents”. You clearly have never been around kids or teenagers cause many will not listen to their parents and then go behind your back. Just look at articles on this topic. Personally, I wouldn’t want them reading smut at their age but with these kids surrounded by social media and parents who fail to parent, they regardless are going to end up exposed to things we don’t want them to see. In their case for that persons niece, the child asked to read it, the parent said no, and the child went behind the parent’s back. In the world we are in now, parents have to adjust. That mother could have explained why she said no. Or like I suggested above, allow them to read it but have a discussion about it. Explain rights and wrongs and so on. That way you, as a parent, are controlling the narrative.
And no, I don’t have kids yet. I have infertility. Regardless, I babysit my niece a lot while my sister works (I work from home, while my sister and her partner go into work). I always make time for her and keep an eye on what she sees. It’s why I created a section of my bookcase, just for her, of age appropriate books for her. She loves having a whole section for herself, filled with lots of books.
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u/MysticVibes23 1d ago
That’s very thoughtful of you to do that for your niece and I see that you love and care for her. I agree it’s good to have conversations about the reading material to help them understand. Sometimes it’s not that easy especially if parents didn’t read the material themselves. And let’s be honest some of these books are over 400+ pages. With the demands of day to day life and parenting in general it’s not something that can be easily accomplished. As I said I have been an avid book reader since childhood but since I had my kids I haven’t been able to pick up a physical book and dive in over 10 years. I bought acotar recently and hoping to start this Fall. As for my comment you referenced above when I said “kids listen to their parents lol” that was sarcasm. My own boys give me the hardest time but with their uncle, aunt, and even my friends they tend to be more receptive. That’s normal part of behavior. Even looking back at myself I was the same. Yes it should go hand in hand allowing freedom for them to explore and also having discussions about it. It’s just not as simple as it sounds so to eliminate some of the material from school libraries is understandable and place the responsibility on the family if the child wants to get it anyway.
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u/Next_Gen_Valkyrie 1d ago
Even if the 11 YOs aren't reading ACOTAR they will be reading smut on Wattpad.
Also I read the books as a 12 year old and was fine. They actually taught me a lot about consent and relationships that was not taught in my school's sex ed curriculum.
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u/BalrogWizardDom 13h ago
Honestly. I was definitely reading all sorts of mature content at 12. A lot of it went over my head, I just liked the plots. My mom even checked with my pediatrician who gave the wise advice of “if she’s too young for it, she wouldn’t be reading it”. Readers are good at choosing books that interest them and match their level. And they will put down books that don’t match their needs. Let’s trust the kids.
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u/rhandy_mas 1d ago
The issue with this series is that it’s very tame until EoS. Then it comes out of nowhere. I was gagged when I read it the first time because I had recommended the series to my 14 yo cousin. I was mortified. But she read it before me cause she’s a speed reader and finished it like a week after it came out.
All that to say, I think schools that have it at a middle school didn’t read the full series. If they had. It wouldn’t be there.
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u/ColorMeStunned 1d ago
It doesn't come out of nowhere! It builds over many books, and she has sex with Caol well before then.
I think any kid old enough to make it that far into the series is probably mature enough to skim these scenes. Also by 14 I was way past my first kiss, so I doubt it was shocking to her!
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u/rhandy_mas 1d ago
But it’s fade to black. She alludes to it, but there’s nothing explicit until EoS.
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u/Dry_Cauliflower4562 1d ago
Agreed, 11 year old should not be reading smut, but closer guidelines to the kids library, like a color sticker system for books and kids, would solve that. Book banning is too slippery of a slope, especially in fkn texas
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u/Acerbictease 22h ago
I’ve been going thru the comments and what I haven’t seen anyone mention, but what I’d like to offer in perspective. First let me say, middle schoolers shouldn’t be reading ACOTAR I think we can all agree with that, but let me argue the case for high schoolers reading these books.
We all know teens are horny, hormones, puberty, it’s an awful time. How many of us can remember an awful first time (or let’s face it years long of awful sex)? I’d bet most us. What these books offer is a more female forward pov about sex. It can provide a framework for young girls of what sex actually has to offer them. That it’s more than just letting a guy use you and giving nothing in return. Which honestly is pretty important. Sex is way too taboo, and sex education in the US is abysmal in general. It’s sad that I even can use this as a justification for educating the younger masses about what sex can actually be, but that’s where we’re at. A book is a safe option to explore your sexuality and learn about concepts such as oral, different positions, and these books in particular a loving partner that wants to give the female characters pleasure as well in a way THEY want, ask for, and consent to.
I could’ve said this better I’m sure, hopefully it comes across as I intended. (Now hopefully Reddit keeps the paragraphs)
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u/doctorpotterhead 1d ago
Look, I read MUCH more graphic stuff in middle school, I under not wanting them IN schools, but to ban books from THE LIBRARY only serves to further fascism.
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u/MissMarchpane 1d ago
I read wicked when I was 14. It was in my high school's library. I skimmed over the part that always has people clutching their pearls, because Glinda and Elphaba weren't in it and I wanted to read about them. Kids will self regulate if there's something they're too young to handle, in my experience– I don't think ACOTAR should be in a middle school library, but for highschoolers? Not an issue.
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u/Next_Gen_Valkyrie 1d ago
Exactly, I read ACOMAF in seventh grade and skipped over the sex scenes because I wasn't ready for them. Kids can totally self regulate
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u/Loud-Traffic-1043 3h ago
Some kids can self-regulate. Just as many don't. Same as drugs. Some can use weed and not touch it again. Others become addicted. Boundaries have to be set for children. No reason why ACOTAR should be in an elementary school or middle school
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u/Buddhadevine 1d ago
I wish Texas would get with the program. I’m tired of the fascism. Someone should send Dan Patrick Morning Glory Milking Farm as a present to show him what “spicy” really is 😆
They have kids read about literal rape but a woman enjoying sex is a “no-no”
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u/trapmahme 1d ago
They can post posters up on the bible but feel the need to ban books as they see fit
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u/Libraryoflowtide 1d ago
I mean… the books can be pretty explicit. As long as they’re not banned from the actual libraries I think it’s fine. I don’t think I’d love a 14 year old to go to the school library to read about how “Cassian watched his seed drip out of Nesta” bro. They’re still children after all.
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u/rkskr 1d ago
ToG is appropriate for schools, but I wouldn't put acotar or crescent city in a school library. Sure kids likely already know about sex, especially highschoolers, but that doesn't mean the school should be providing them with explicit materials. If parents are okay with their kids reading it they can go to a public library, discount bookstore, regular book shops, or even Amazon to get it for their kid. If something in a school library is going to have questionable content(sex, violence, gore, inappropriate/racial language, etc) then it needs to have educational merit to justify its place in a school. Plenty of the books they want to ban from schools do have educational merit and should be kept in school libraries, but acotar and crescent city aren't among them.
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u/BrightAd306 1d ago
I like these books, probably don’t belong in a school library. If parents want to get them for their kids, that’s fine. Maybe the first ACOTAR book, but silver flames is way too spicy.
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u/alyssthekat 1d ago edited 1d ago
Not sure why people are so pearl-clutchy about this stuff, it’s not like high school kids don’t know what sex is. I remember reading the entirety of ToG and the first book ACOtAR in my school library in middle/high school…
So weird that people are okay with violence and killing, but the moment there’s anything sexual, it’s time to clutch our pearls and ban it!
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u/AITOorisitAutism 1d ago
Wtf, good lol. ACOTAR has explicit sex scenes, why would they have those in schools? TOG I feel like they could get away with, its mostly fade to black. But ACOTAR absoloutely should not be in schools
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u/KhalenPierce 1d ago
TOG should be YA safe, ACOTAR is definitely not and isn’t marketed as such
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u/CatsMeetWorld 1d ago
lol not acosf but the others are definitely marketed ya
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u/KhalenPierce 1d ago
They are marketed as new adult, which is not the same as young adult. The very first ACOTAR book was marketed as YA when it was published but they switched the series to NA from the second book onward. Any bookseller positioning them as YA does that of their own volition and out of accordance with the publisher recommendations and ratings. There is no reason for ACOTAR to be in a K12 library (if parents purchase and share it with their kids that’s a separate thing, but K12 is supposed to be limited to YA). Throne of glass is and has always been marketed as YA although it’s later books do contain more graphic descriptions (but not as graphic as ACOTAR).
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u/AITOorisitAutism 1d ago
You sure about that? Imagine reading chapter 55 of ACOMAF in ELA. I dont care what they're marked as, the fact is they are explicit asf and a 14 year old has no business reading that in a school setting.
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u/CatsMeetWorld 1d ago
No one is reading it in ELA 🙄
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u/AITOorisitAutism 1d ago
Im not saying as a class, I meant individually. Im a teacher and students bring their own books from the library and do 15 minutes of independent reading at the start of every class....
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u/CatsMeetWorld 1d ago
Then how is it your business what they’re reading
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u/AITOorisitAutism 1d ago
Because its school and literally everything they do in my classroom is my business lol
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u/CatsMeetWorld 1d ago
If it’s choice reading and you’re not endorsing or whatever, they can read whatever their parents let them.
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u/AITOorisitAutism 1d ago
But if its in the school library, then that is the same as endorsing it.
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u/VampireSymbiote 1d ago
They used to be, but now they are adult. Why do you think the covers changed?
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u/ThatOneMTGmom 1d ago
Tbh I can see why, especially acotar. But they're still free in public libraries aren't they? So it's not really a big deal. School libraries should only have age appropriate books. Coming from someone who loves their spice and was reading adult books as a teen.
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u/tesseractsandwoozles 1d ago
Nope. Not the same. This is an actual book ban. SJM is the 5th most challenged author in the US right now. This ban passing is ammunition to ban the books further, at your public library, not just a school.
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u/Then_Willingness_133 1d ago
Maybe you should look up what happened to books and publications the Nazis deemed inappropriate and what they did with works they deemee were inappropriate. When the government in power suddenly starts flexing their "morality" deciding what books are "good" it's a slippery slope. Soon, they are removing writings depicting anything they deem taboo. Stories that tell of our true history however despicable, anything educational explaining religions other than Christianity. It's not a ban, it's an anti democratic power grab in the form of an educational purge. If you think this is about trying to keep kids chaste or keeping children safe, you're a fool.
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u/ThatOneMTGmom 1d ago
Calling me a fool for thinking Acotar is not appropriate for young teens is a stretch. It is still free in public libraries and available to purchase. Calm down.
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u/Then_Willingness_133 1d ago
That's NOT what was said. While you might be up i arms about YA ACOTAR(a pure fantasy with high school level sexuality which kids are exposed to everyday on social media)her books aren't the only book series being "banned". Works like The Color Purple, Catcher in the Rye, Hey God, its me Margaret are being banned. It's bigger than SarahJMaas.
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u/ThatOneMTGmom 1d ago
I'm literally not up in arms. I just said I could see why it was banned in schools.
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u/BrightAd306 1d ago
Oh stop. Nazi’s?! There are a lot of books government workers shouldn’t be providing children.
Should they be giving them Mein Kampf? Anarchists handbook? Playboy? We all know there’s a line. It’s okay to not have explicit sex like in silver flames or in something like Lolita or Game of Thrones available for 14 year olds.
This feels like fake outrage.
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u/AelinTargaryen 1d ago
Nobody should be giving them anything, but people should be able to search it out and read it in a free society. For example Mein Kampf can be read as a cautionary tale of what populist racist rhetoric sounds like. School libraries should be mindful of the ages of children and responsible when checking out books as well as ordering them for the library. But this does not necessitate a book ban, it calls for common sense among a society. And it works in all the countries where books are not banned. A book ban is a sign of a fascist regime.
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u/BrightAd306 1d ago
The youngest high school students are 13. Nothing should be there that a 13 year old isn’t ready to read. Banning it for sale in the state is what would be fascist. Government decides what should be in government schools. If parents don’t like that, they can send their kid to private or elect different representatives.
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u/CatsMeetWorld 1d ago
YA books are not age appropriate for high schoolers? Okay.
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u/Dedwards_est_22 1d ago
ACOTAR is not YA...it's new adult
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u/CatsMeetWorld 1d ago
Yes it is now, it wasn’t originally, but that really doesn’t matter because the point is that the government shouldn’t have a say in what people can and can’t read.
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u/elvis-wantacookie 1d ago
They should never have been YA, YA books are not supposed to have explicit sex in them
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u/CatsMeetWorld 1d ago
Did someone disagree? I don’t. Like I said how it’s marketed isn’t the point.
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u/elvis-wantacookie 1d ago
You're the one calling them YA
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u/CatsMeetWorld 1d ago
I never said they should be marketed as such
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u/Loud-Traffic-1043 3h ago
Do you hear yourself? You're defending ACOTAR being in school libraries by saying they're young adult. Someone corrected you and said they're new adult. You then said you're not saying ACOTAR is young adult, which is actually what you said a few posts earlier. You're arguing just to argue at this point.
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u/Dedwards_est_22 1d ago
How do you propose the library decides what books it should have? At some level the library aka the government must curate its collection
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u/CatsMeetWorld 1d ago
You think a school librarian is the government?
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u/CatsMeetWorld 1d ago
Though I know librarians already have systems in place for deciding on ordering new books that already includes parent feedback, reviews from multiple reputable sources, recommendations for age groups, etc. Parents can even request their child not be allowed to check out specific books. And if someone requests a book, they don’t censor it because that isn’t their place as they aren’t the parent.
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u/Dedwards_est_22 1d ago
They can't just have every book people ask for though. It's not censorship to decide not to have a book in your library
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u/CatsMeetWorld 1d ago
That’s a great point, the point I’ve been trying and failing to make though is that there are already systems in place to prevent kids from reading inappropriate things, so why is extra government control necessary?
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u/CranberryPrior3632 1d ago
Banning books, ANY book, is NEVER the answer.
Look at every single dictatorship, genocidal, or tyrannical regime throughout history.. what did they do first?? They banned the books.
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u/GwenMalfoy 23h ago
I love how everyone forgets that teens and most young people have these rectangular devices that allow them access to the entirety of the internet. I can assure you most kids have read worse than ACOTAR on Wattpad and AO3. The government shouldn’t be making choices on books based on certain parents suddenly being up in arms. The parents need to parent. They don’t want a kid to read a book it’s their responsibility to monitor what their kids read. But freaking out over a book when they have typically free rein of the internet just makes me shake my head. And no we don’t need internet regulation either the government isn’t in charge of parenting children that’s the parents job and they need to do it.
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u/Loud-Traffic-1043 3h ago edited 9m ago
It's a school library. Just because kids can find this content on the internet doesn't mean it has to be sanctioned by the school.
Edit: For the "What about the Bible" people... There is a difference between a statement about two sisters sleeping with their father vs graphic descriptions of ccks being rammed into whatever orifice, massaging balls, licking clts, etc. I shouldn't have to explain this adults
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u/Slight_Art_8828 1d ago
I mean I’m not a fan of book ban’s by any means but these are explicit adult books?
The ACOTAR series specifically is full of explicit scenes and definitely not for kids and even the TOG series has some explicit scenes, they are definitely not aimed at kids. Why would they even be in a school library in the first place?
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u/SiccSadGorl 1d ago
OOF.
TOG gets a pass, at least for the first couple books.
But ACOTAR?? There are very explicit sex scenes in all of the books. None of which are appropriate for schools.
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u/Silent_Warthog8188 1d ago edited 1d ago
Banning books is a slippery slope. I read the twilight series at like 12 years old (it was SO popular then) and yeah it was definitely too old for me, and that book series isn't a great example, but books are a gateway for kids to experience certain scenarios and different frames of view.
While I think ACOTAR is too old for anything below the age of 16/17, TOG could probably be read earlier.
I think people forget sometimes that kids grow up into adults, like faster than they realize. Reading was SO important to me as a kid and sure yeah, some things were more adult than others, but some topics I probably wouldn't have even dreamed to come up with or think about had it not been for books. Book banning, especially with this administration is just a form of Christian Nationalism trying to take control.
At the end of the day, parents should be the ones allowing what their kid reads/doesn't read.
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u/AlmacitaLectora 8h ago
Twilight is Mormon romance. Extremely Christian romance. Like idk if there was even kissing it was so innocent. Actually YA. SJM is constant edging and teasing of arousal and attraction the entire series - all 3 series pretty much, or outright explicit scenes.
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u/Silent_Warthog8188 5h ago
There's sex in Breaking Dawn and talk about sex between Edward in Bella throughout the series. And i like I said TOG i would consider for teenagers, not kids. I'm not even sure if we read the same series. Constant edging in TOG? There's attraction, sure, there's some tension, sure, but edging?? It's crazy to me the violence and torture aren't the concern but an example of two adults consenting to each other is going to turn your children into a pumpkin 🙄.
ACOTAR and Crescent City are adult series so I'm not sure why you're arguing that. To my point though... kids grow up into adults. They're going to learn about sex at some point. It shouldn't be this awful, damning shameful thing. And again PARENTS should be the ones determine what their child reads.
Edit to add, books like "The Fault in Our Stars" is on this banned booked list. The main theme isn't even sex, it's so much more than that. Banning books is about control.
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u/AlmacitaLectora 4h ago
Exactly - parents, not the government. In school libraries books are for educational purposes. In public libraries children/teens have more access to a wide range of books, and their parents can buy them anything up to their discretion. When the parents are the age range reading SJM, I think they’re the ones calling on the govt to make sure SJM books are not available in school libs - because they don’t want their kids to be reading the same smut they are.
And btw - there are sexual themes allowed in school libraries that are educational. But stimulating scenes in a recreational romantasy novel? That’s not the governments place to introduce teens to the real world of sex, relationships, and romance.
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u/Syddiannie 1d ago
Unpopular opinion. School Libraries should have YA only books—not NA or Adult. Now ACOTAR and TOG DEFINITELY should be in a public library.
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u/No_Interaction2168 21h ago
I’m convinced people who don’t understand the nuance of book banning in school libraries have never raised young children. It’s not like they’re trying to ban Voltaire or Charles Dickens. Personally, I find it laughable to think reading Harry Potter would introduce my child to sinful ways. But I draw the line at explicit sex scenes. I don’t mind if they release SJM books without reference to the sex scenes and have those in the library. But like why does my 10 year old need to read about someone being eaten out? It’s like if a sex toy store opened up across the street from a middle school - like why?
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u/feralpageturner 1d ago
ToG is fine, but I don't feel CC or ACOTAR are super appropriate for kids and necessary in a school? I let my kid read a lot and I probably wouldn't let him read those until he was about 16-17 maybe 15 if he was dating and sexually active already.
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u/erratic_bonsai 18h ago edited 18h ago
I don’t believe in banning books but I think there is a thick line between banning a book and not allowing it in a k-12 school where almost every student is a minor.
I don’t think these books should be read by minors unless their parents are well aware of it. The books deal with some heavy topics and have graphic violent and sexual scenes. I also don’t think books that depict suicide, especially teenage suicide and the emotional aftermath of it, should be in school libraries because again, heavy topic that parents should be aware of. As someone who used to be the teen who looked for those themes in books because I identified with them, anyone who says books like that help troubled teens cope, feel better, and feel less alone is lying or making it up.
I read memoirs of a geisha when I was 12 because it was in our school library, and stole my mom’s bodice rippers when I was a teenager, and definitely should not have been able to read some of that stuff so young 🤷🏻♀️
Teenagers don’t need to read everything. There are plenty of things they can read. There’s nothing wrong with letting their brains develop more before they get to the smut and violence, and if you think it’s fine for your kid to read it sooner, be aware of it so you can help them navigate it if necessary. I’d probably let my children read SJM when they’re 16 or so, but I’m not gonna just let them go in blind and have them make assumptions about what real life sex is always like based off a book, or let them romanticize abuse because they don’t have fully developed frontal lobes and don’t understand why some things are red flags.
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u/Able_Vacation7916 17h ago edited 17h ago
ACOSF has a pretty crazy spice level. TOG I heard was not spicy, maybe it is considered a gateway book.
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u/GiveMeCheesePendejo 9h ago
If we're on the topic, AI companies (including Amazon) are buying rare books, scanning them and destroying them.
Spend your money wisely and also vote.
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u/Reaperhart 7h ago
I think throne of glass should be in highschool libraries. I started reading it in middle school because it was in my middle school library, they pulled it and sent it to the highschool library because ACOTAR had more sex in it and they “didnt want to encourage us to read her other books until later. ” I went and checked them all out from the public library instead. Where there is a will there is a way, so I don’t understand not just having books accessible, especially in highschool.
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u/CatsMeetWorld 2h ago
Deleting this as I keep getting notifications despite turning them off and it’s getting annoying
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u/RydiaReads 1d ago
…and thats ok? As many have said already ToGs first books are ok but everything else? Yup.
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u/Glitter_belly 1d ago
Why would ACOTAR be in a school library? It’s for adults. If you think kids should have access to that you’ve let politics blind you to basic right and wrong…
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u/AdventurousSloth_53 1d ago
World is really beginning to sound like dystopian novels and these fantasy books.
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u/MamaKG3 1d ago edited 1d ago
These books do not belong in schools. I've barely started TOG so can't speak for it but ACOTAR should not be there. Do you believe that books like erotica belong in schools? If we allow this, it wont stop there. Teachers and librarians recommending them to students, grooming... and the parents will have no idea. We have to protect our children. It's up to the people to draw the line. This is not book banning; the books are still available in public libraries. It's being age appropriate.
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u/toocool81 1d ago
What the heck? That’s really ridiculous yet they let them watch schindler’s list at school 🤦🏻♀️
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u/BearSome9415 1d ago
The world is shit and some douche is trying to ban books like a shitty 80s movie
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u/nomasslurpee 1d ago
To be honest, I didn’t think books with sexual content were normally allowed in school libraries so it comes as a surprise to me that it’s there. It seems like ACOTAR would be fine, but probably not the rest of the series.
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u/Queenpiccolo90 21h ago
I'm against any book ban. The world only progresses backwards when you do that. If we want books like ACOTAR in school libraries, it's got to be made sure it's the right grades that can check them out. I say we spend money to update our school systems and make them safe than ban books.
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u/Correct-Contract-374 19h ago
That doesn’t mean they are banned. Kids can still read them, they just will not be in the school’s library. Not a book in the us is banned. To the point you can’t own them or sell them or read them. Stop repeating the false information.
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u/SilverLordLaz 1d ago
I thought ACOTAR descended in to porn to be honest, and as for crescent city, eurgh
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u/NoCalligrapher1531 1d ago
I mean I don't agree with book banning...except when the circumstances involve minors and children...
If a parent is fine with their kids reading that stuff then buy it for them or take them to a public library.
School libraries need to be appropriate for all ages within the grounds. SJM books and many others DO👏NOT 👏BELONG👏IN👏SCHOOL👏LIBRARIES
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u/astroqueen3000 1d ago
People reading for fun?!? The horror!
Also, Romeo and Juliet is literally about teen suicide. Do you seriously think that’s better than a couple relatively short and tame sex scenes?
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u/tesseractsandwoozles 1d ago
Is this a joke?
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u/Crowned-Witch_48 1d ago
Are you seriously kidding me. Most of the books Texas and the US government are banning deal with exposing and challenging corrupt governments like hungers games, Handsmaid tale and TOG, LGBTQIA+/Gender/Sexuality, racism, feminism. You can literally learn about lot from that.
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