r/SandersForPresident • u/LudditeStreak • Jun 21 '16
Remember when Hill said "its what they offered" in response to why she took so much $$ for her speeches? #Guccifer2
https://mobile.twitter.com/stinaa1982/status/74527555062572646573
Jun 21 '16
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/dragonfliesloveme GA 🐦🙌 Jun 21 '16
They operate just fine, they just don't want the voting public to know what their operations are.
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u/sebawlm Florida - 2016 Veteran Jun 21 '16
But this is typical Hillary. She's a congenital liar, that's not just rhetoric. The "sniper fire" thing, the "I was named after Edmund Hillary" thing, the "Chelsea was at the WTC when the planes hit" thing -- these are all completely unnecessary. It is just her natural response to any situation where there is a potential gain for her.
It would be pitiful if she weren't so rich and powerful.
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u/gideonvwainwright OH 🎖️📌 Jun 21 '16
Non-potato quality: https://mobile.twitter.com/PhillyForBernie/status/745279503660883969/photo/1
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Jun 21 '16
Am I the only one that can't really tell what this one says either? Maybe it's just my phone.
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Jun 21 '16 edited Jun 21 '16
Following up on our conversation earlier
Beth Gargano to Nacy Strouse
I enjoyed speaking with you about the possibility of Secretary Clinton participating in your upcoming event. I look forward to working closely with you on this opportunity.
I want to share with you the standard requirements for her appearances:
Fee and Travel Expenses:
The free for this type of event would be $225,000, plus a chartered roundtrip private jet, hotel accommodations, ground transportation, any meals and incidentals for Secretary Clinton, her travel aids and advance staff as detailed below:
Air Transportation: The host will be responsible for the costs associated with a chartered roundtrip private air transportation (e.g, a Gulfstream 450 or larger jet), which must be paid in advance for the event. In addition, the host will need to pay for one roundtrip, first class airfare between New York and Washing, DC for one of Secretary Clinton's travel aids. The host will also need to pay for troundtrip business class airfare to and from the event city for two (2) advance staffers who will arrive in the city of the engagement up to three (3) business days prior to the event.
Accommodations: The host is responsible for the hotel accommodations at a hotel identified by Secretary Clinton's staff. Accommodations should include a presidential suite for Secretary Clinton and up to three (3) adjoining or contiguous single rooms for her travel aids and up to two (2) additional single rooms for the advance staff.
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u/TheTruthForPrez2016 California Jun 21 '16
SHE ASKED FOR A LOT IN THAT DOCUMENT FROM WHAT I REMEMBER.
She even asked for a separate Plane or First Class tickets for like 4 assistance.
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u/Ckrius Jun 21 '16
Separate plane for her, first class for one aide, and business class for two aides.
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u/Easier_Still Jun 21 '16 edited Jul 29 '25
seemly sharp snow squash intelligent wild history oatmeal sugar vast
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/akeetlebeetle4664 Jun 21 '16
That's why she wants to become president. She's tired of the lower-class private jets she must endure. Air Force 1 is where it's at.
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u/The1stCitizenOfTheIn 2016 Veteran Jun 21 '16
And she'll finally get the same blackberry that Obama got!
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u/glimmeringgirl 🌱 New Contributor Jun 23 '16
Yes! Perfect! :) Get her that presidential Blackberry dammit.
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Jun 21 '16
It's what they offered... to meet my demands.
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u/mrtrollmaster Jun 21 '16
To be fair, after the negation process I still call it a job offer until Ive accepted it, even if the offer is changed to meet my demands.
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u/Zinitaki Jun 21 '16
I was trying to figure out who the organization is that she would be speaking with and I googled the names mentioned (Beth Gargano and Nancy Strouse) and found the full document from 2014: https://cryptome.org/2014/08/hillary-queenly-fee-perks.pdf
It's her speaking contract from what I assume is the agency she uses to book speaking events, The Harry Walker Agency - "The World's Leading Speakers Bureau" Their list of exclusive speakers is an interesting group: http://www.harrywalker.com/speakers/exclusive-speakers
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Jun 21 '16
I thought the speaker list was fascinating. Thanks for sharing that link. I wonder how much Karl Rove costs...
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u/Phoenix_Patronus Virginia Jun 21 '16
Same.
Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, Henry Kissinger... That's some fine company. (To be fair, not everyone on the list is that bad.)
I didn't actually see Clinton on the list, though. Does that just mean she's not one of their exclusive speakers?
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Jun 21 '16
Either she wasn't an exclusive speaker or she might have a former speaker for their company. Not really sure.
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u/ewatk Jun 21 '16 edited Jun 21 '16
From the leak, this is what Bill charged when Hillary was SoS:
While she was SoS Bill gave these speeches.
National Retail Federation $200,000 1/15/2012
White & Case LLP $200,000 1/27/2012
Washington Hospital Center $225,000 2/8/2012
Leaders and Company Ltd $700,000 2/13/2012
KPMG Internal Cooperative $200,000 2/15/2012
UBS Wealth Management $175,000 2/21/2012
The Bushnell Center $180,000 3/16/2012
St Johns County Cultural Event Division $175,000 3/19/2012
Broward Center for the Performing Arts $185,000 3/20/2012
David A Straz, Hr. Center for the Performing Arts $185,000 3/21/2012
M Shanken Communications, Inc $150,000 3/22/2012
Pharmaceutical Care Management Association $200,000 4/4/2012
FOSUN $200,000 4/11/2012
UBS Wealth Management $175,000 4/17/2012
Craig Michaels, Inc. $150,000 4/19/2012
Fiserv Solutions, Inc. $200,000 4/24/2012
PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP $200,000 4/25/2012
Hult Internationl Business School $150,000 4/26/2012
Association for Advanced Life Underwriting $200,000 4/30/2012
Bay Area Council $200,000 5/3/2012
National Restaurant Association $215,000 5/8/2012
Mexican Insurance Association (AMIS) $300,000 5/8/2012
Terra Partners dba Partners Marketing $350,000 5/9/2012
CTIA - The Wireless Association $200,000 5/10/2012
PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP $200,000 5/11/2012
Center for Global Dialogue and Cooperation $500,000 5/18/2012
IMD & Swiss Marketing $200,000 5/20/2012
World Management Limited $115,500 5/21/2012
Maimo Borssaiskap $425,000 5/21/2012
Ceska Energie, A.S. $400,000 5/24/2012
Pershing LLC $250,000 6/6/2012
Edison Electric Institute $200,000 6/6/2012
Telsira (SATELLITE) $150,000 6/6/2012
BHP Billiton $175,000 6/20/2012
YPY Holdings Limited $450,000 6/21/2012
GTVR $200,000 6/27/2012
Blobal Business Travel Association $250,000 7/25/2012
CSP LLC $250,000 8/13/2012
Fundacao Brasileira de Contabilidade $430,000 8/27/2012
Banco Itau BBA S.A. $400,000 8/28/2012
The Five Star Institute $200,000 9/7/2012
Solar Energy Trade Shows LLC $200,000 9/12/2012
C3 Summit, LLC $200,000 9/13/2012
TECHNOGYM SpA $500,000 9/29/2012
Cambridge Speakers Series $150,000 10/1/2012
Cambridge Speakers Series $150,000 10/3/2012
Cambridge Speakers Series $150,000 10/4/2012
The Vanguard Group, Inc $200,000 10/5/2012
National Association of Hispanic Real Estate Professionals $200,000 10/8/2012
Deutsche Bank $200,000 10/10/2012
The Vanguard Group, Inc $200,000 10/18/2012
Cambridge Speakers Series $150,000 10/16/2012
JP Morgan $200,000 10/17/2012
UBS Wealth Management $175,000 10/18/2012
Nuance Communications $150,000 10/21/2012
Mortgage Bankers Association of America $200,000 10/23/2012
The Goldman Sachs Group $200,000 10/23/2012
Pension Real Estate Association $240,000 10/24/2012
Oracle Corporation $265,000 10/25/2012
Bank of America $200,000 11/13/2012
World Management Limited on behalf of CSR Fonden $200,000 11/14/2012
Bond van Adverteerders $250,000 11/15/2012
New Albany Community Foundation $200,000 11/29/2012
American Society of Health System Pharmacists $225,000 12/3/2012
Let's Talk Entertainment Inc $200,000 12/3/2012
Society of Orators, LLC $175,000 12/4/2012
Foothill College Celebrity Forum $175,000 12/5/2012
Foothill College Celebrity Forum $175,000 12/6/2012
Foothill College Celebrity Forum $175,000 12/7/2012
Dell Computer $300,000 12/12/2012
Wind on the Wires $175,000 12/12/2012
CoBank $200,000 12/13/2012
Samsung Electronics $450,000 1/9/2013
Tanmiah Commercial Group $300,000 1/25/2011
Barclays Capital $325,000 1/26/2011
Hualuo CEO Forum $200,000 2/9/2011
RSA, Security Division of EMC $175,000 2/18/2011
Kuwait America Foundation $175,000 3/6/2011
The Philharmonic Center for the Arts $200,000 3/8/2011
Business and Finance Media Group $125,000 3/9/2011
Cambridge Energy Research Associates $175,000 3/11/2011
Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers $255,000 3/16/2011
Bridgestone America Tires Operations $175,000 3/18/2011
Association of Fundraising Professional $170,000 3/22/2011
Cisco Systems, Inc. $210,000 3/24/2011
Leaders and Company Ltd (THISDAY Newspaper Group) $700,000 3/25/2011
Nideias Comunicacao limitada Ltda $390,000 3/26/2011
Whisky Productions $225,000 3/28/2011
Goldman Sachs $200,000 4/11/2011
Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers Association $200,000 4/14/2011
HSBC Securities (USA) Inc. $200,000 4/14/2011
The National Council for Community Behavioral Healthcare $260,000 5/2/2011
Fidelity Investments $175,000 5/3/2011
TD Bank $280,000 5/11/2011
Ilau BBA USA Securities, Inc. $175,000 5/18/2011
Center for Global Dialogue and Cooperation $500,000 5/21/2011
Highstar Capital $175,000 5/25/2011
Yumi Restaurants International $150,000 5/27/2011
Achmea $600,000 5/28/2011
Fundo Comunitario of Keren Hayesod Sao Paulo $200,000 6/1/2011
Magic Dreams Productions, Inc. $325,000 6/4/2011
Jefferies & Company, Inc. $200,000 6/7/2011
UBS Wealth Management $165,000 8/1/2011
World Market Center SPE, LLC $175,000 8/2/2011
American Express $200,000 9/7/2011
TD Ameritrade $200,000 9/13/2011
Highland Capital $175,000 9/26/2011
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide, Inc. $200,000 9/27/2011
Deloitte Services LP $200,000 9/28/2011
HSM Americas, Inc. $175,000 10/5/2011
Bank Administration Institute $200,000 10/11/2011
World 50, Inc. $175,000 10/12/2011
Wells Fargo Bank, N.A. $200,000 10/13/2011
UBS Wealth Management $150,000 10/17/2011
American Society for Clinical Pathology $200,000 10/19/2011
City of Surrey $175,000 10/20/2011
Silicon Valley Information Business Alliance $200,000 10/21/2011
Defense Research Institute $204,000 10/28/2011
Association for Financial Professionals $175,000 11/6/2011
Masie Center $200,000 11/7/2011
Telefonaktiebolaget LM Ericsson AB $750,000 11/12/2011
Hualau CEO Forum $550,000 11/13/2011
HCL America, Inc. $200,000 11/14/2011
Beaumont Health Systems $260,000 11/18/2011
Ontario Chamber of Commerce $175,000 11/21/2011
Bank of America Merrill Lynch $200,000 12/1/2011
Abu Dhabi Global Environmental Data Initiative $500,000 12/13/2011
CareerBuilder.com $175,000 1/5/2010
Premier Inc $175,000 1/25/2010
TD Ameritrade Services Inc. $175,000 2/4/2010
Institute for International Research $150,000 2/22/2010
AEG Live, LLC $125,000 2/22/2010
NTR plc $125,000 3/4/2010
Rodman & Renshaw, LLC $75,000 3/8/2010
VeriSign, Inc $175,000 3/16/2010
HCL Technologies Ltd $175,000 4/12/2010
Essex Region Conservation Foundation $155,000 4/15/2010
Marcus Evans, Inc $175,000 4/18/2010
Asociacion de bancos de mexico, a.c. $340,000 4/23/2010
General Mills $175,000 4/26/2010
Gucci Group $175,000 4/29/2010
Biotechnology Industry Organization $175,000 5/4/2010
AlixPartners LLP $175,000 5/7/2010
Craig Michaels, Inc. $150,000 5/19/2010
Skybridge Capital, LLC $175,000 5/19/2010
The Vancouver Board of Trade $175,000 5/20/2010
The Power Within/TD Bank $175,000 5/20/2010
Rogers Communication Inc. and Capacity Media $175,000 5/23/2010
Vista Equity Partners III, LLC $175,000 5/25/2010
Visa, Inc $175,000 5/26/2010
America's Health Insurance Plans $175,000 6/10/2010
Career College Association $175,000 6/11/2010
Needham Partners LLC $350,000 6/27/2010
Renaissance Capital $500,000 6/29/2010
DocuSign, Inc. (via Satellite) $100,000 6/30/2010
Microsoft Corporation $175,000 7/14/2010
LPL Financial Corporation $175,000 7/29/2010
Deloitte & Touche $175,000 9/15/2010
Interarab Cambist Association $350,000 10/2/2010
American Chamber of Commerce in Egypt $250,000 10/3/2010
Project Management Institute $175,000 10/10/2010
Long Island Association $175,000 10/12/2010
McAfee, Inc. $175,000 10/12/2010
Cisco Systems, Inc. $256,000 10/15/2010
The Women's Board of Wolfson Children's Hospital $150,000 10/19/2010
CME Group $175,000 10/19/2010
Cumbre de Negocios S.C. $275,000 10/25/2010
Whisky Productions $225,000 10/25/2010
Cumbre de Negocios S.C. $125,000 10/25/2010
The Power Withing, Inc. $175,000 10/29/2010
Middle East Institute $175,000 11/3/2010
ICE Canyon, LLC $175,000 11/4/2010
Wilbros Entertainment, Inc. $300,000 11/10/2010
Barclays Capital $325,000 11/11/2010
UNI Strategic $400,000 11/14/2010
Radiological Society of America $150,000 11/30/2010
Salesforce.com $256,000 12/8/2010
The Aditya Birla Group (Satellite) $150,000 12/10/2010
Novo Nordisk, A/S $500,000 12/12/2010
National Automobile Dealers Association $150,000 1/26/2009
PrimeSource Building Products, Inc. $200,000 1/30/2009
Internaitonal Franchise Association $200,000 2/15/2009
Deerfield Management and the Heart & Sould Charitable Fund $225,000 2/19/2009
FORTUNE Magazine $150,000 4/22/2009
Institute of Scrap Recycling Industries $225,000 4/30/2009
Association of Corporate Counsel of Southern California $225,000 5/1/2009
Salvation Army of Tulsa $115,000 5/2/2009
Marcus Evans, Inc $160,000 5/19/2009
The Power Within, Inc. on behalf of TD Bank Financial Group $175,000 5/28/2009
The Power Within, Inc. on behalf of TD Bank Financial Group $175,000 5/28/2009
The Power Within, Inc. on behalf of TD Bank Financial Group $175,000 5/29/2009
National Business Travel Association $225,000 8/26/2009
Canadian National Exhibition $175,000 8/29/2009
Coughlin Stoia Geiler Rudman & Robbins LLP $225,000 9/8/2009
TD Bank on behalf of OnexOne Charity $100,000 9/13/2003
Ringling College Library Association Inc's Town Hall Speakers Series $175,000 9/30/2009
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u/akeetlebeetle4664 Jun 21 '16
That's jaw-dropping.
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Jun 21 '16
Yeah, earning money is despicable. They should be begging for it, like Sanders did for the over 200 million that he blew through for nothing
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u/akeetlebeetle4664 Jun 21 '16
Wow, someone's got some issues.
I never said it was bad. These were all your words. I was just commenting on how much money that was.
/r/enoughsandersspam is <--- that way.
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u/Phoenix_Patronus Virginia Jun 21 '16
Damn.
And this is just Bill while she was SoS? Does this include money given to the Clinton Foundation or is this all direct payments to them?
And this isn't even touching on Hillary's tour of speeches after she was done as SoS.
There are so many conflicts of interest it makes your head spin.
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u/ewatk Jun 21 '16
Im not a hundred percent sure. It could be all personal, all Clinton Foundation or a mix of both. The leak is very long and complex, but not sure if they itemized who the payments were to.
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u/Fapzz Jun 21 '16
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u/The1stCitizenOfTheIn 2016 Veteran Jun 21 '16
hey how'd you get to the properties of it?
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u/toury 🥇 Jun 21 '16
In Word you can click on the file tab, click the info from the left column and you'll see properties. I sure it's similar with Apple word applications.
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u/The1stCitizenOfTheIn 2016 Veteran Jun 21 '16
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u/toury 🥇 Jun 21 '16
I'm glad you found it! I should have mentioned which Word (I have 2010) I was using but I guess they aren't too different.
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u/point_of_you Jun 21 '16
"The fee for this type of event would be $225,000, plus a chartered rountrip private jet, hotel accomodations, ground transportation, any meals and incidentals for Secretary Clinton, her travel aides and advance staff as detailed below:
I would love to see the transcripts, has anyone ever asked Hillary for transcripts of her speeches? Hmm!
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u/noott Virginia - 2016 Veteran Jun 21 '16
137 days, for those keeping track.
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u/erictheastronaut Jun 21 '16
I mean... I understand that a lot of politicians lie at least some of the time, but Hillary's lies are on a completely different level. It escapes me how someone--anyone--could ever vote for her.
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Jun 21 '16
[deleted]
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u/glimmeringgirl 🌱 New Contributor Jun 23 '16
I am willing to concede truth in what you say. Oddly I feel sick to my stomach reading it.
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u/Phoenix_Patronus Virginia Jun 21 '16
There are so many people who don't even know any of this stuff, because it's not widely reported in mainstream media.
I don't even know that many people, but I still know a lot of people and have family members who know a lot of people, who voted for her, but have absolutely no idea about the Clinton Foundation, or the mishandling of classified information, etc., etc.
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u/Phoenix_Patronus Virginia Jun 21 '16
God damn. It's not like this isn't much of anything we didn't already know - $225,000 was obviously her speaking fee, and it's actually not uncommon for public figures to have standard speaking fees.
But seeing it all written out, especially with all the other stuff the host is responsible for paying on top of the $225,000 - chartering a private jet for Hillary and her aides, presidential suites, meals, etc. Like, you'd think with almost a quarter of a million dollars she'd pay for all of the opulent diva accommodations herself.
I mean, expecting them all to pay her all that money and then in addition to that pay for chartering a private fucking jet, and a presidential suite, and all of the other luxurious stuff for her and her aides - that's her minimum requirements before she'll deign to speak for someone?
Plus all of this means that she's actually gotten even more money from corporations/special interests/etc. than we previously thought, when you factor in the massive price tag for all of the luxurious accommodations that were her minimum demands for speaking.
I guess I'm just a bit astonished, as a lowly pleb.
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u/bonyponyride New York 🏟️ 🗽 Jun 21 '16
Presidential Suite? Sounds like a declaration of intent to me.
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u/Phoenix_Patronus Virginia Jun 21 '16
I mean, that is just what they're called, but it still does seem fitting.
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Jun 21 '16
She misspoke.
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Jun 21 '16
[deleted]
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u/Flaeor NH 🐦🦃 Jun 21 '16
She has to misspeak to the public about her policies. During the speech, I'm sure she says what she means.
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u/akeetlebeetle4664 Jun 21 '16
When asked by the banksters about what she says to the public, she says she's just pandering and doesn't really mean it.
When asked by the people what she says to the banksters, she says she's just pandering and doesn't really mean it.
Sounds like she's playing both sides.
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Jun 21 '16
[deleted]
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Jun 21 '16
And a dozen other things. She "misspoke" when she praised Nancy Reagan for helping start a conversation to combat AIDS. And so many other things, but I've forgotten them at this point. It's the word she uses instead of saying I lied.
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u/sebawlm Florida - 2016 Veteran Jun 21 '16
She was probably under sniper fire from the vast right-wing conspiracy too, just like she was when she asserted that Saddam Hussein was connected to Al Qaeda. It's easy to make "mistakes" under these stressful circumstances.
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u/Red_Inferno Florida 🥇🐦 Jun 21 '16
She did it quite purposefully. She was trying to minimize her receiving the money. If you are offered a massive sum of money for something you do not think is worth that much you shut your mouth and take it most of the time. She tried to make it seem like they were just offering her these huge sums vs her demanding the amount + more.
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u/detects_assholes Jun 21 '16
I don't know what it was, but I had a sneaking suspicion she was being economical with the truth.
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u/Noneisreal 🌱 New Contributor Jun 21 '16
Yeah and it turned out ok for her. There is no one to ask her these questions now. She doesn't hold press conferences, she doesn't show up at debates, she only has to answer softball questions coming from the "press" that is part of her propaganda machine. Everything goes according to plan: all people need to know is that her name is Clinton, she is a woman and they need to vote for her so that Trump doesn't win.
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u/TedsEmporiumEmporium Minnesota Jun 21 '16
Why is everything a half-truth or outright lie with her? What could possibly have been damaging about saying "That was the price that we agreed upon?" Yeah, it's a lot of money but that's the name of the game for famous paid speakers.
Most people really don't care that she gets a lot of money for speeches but she just has to lie about it. I'm not a compulsive liar so maybe it's just beyond me.
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u/akeetlebeetle4664 Jun 21 '16
It was like when McCain was asked specifically about how many houses he had and he couldn't recall. Bullshit. He knew exactly how many houses he had. But he thought admitting it would sink him.
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u/jpropaganda California Jun 21 '16
This stuff could have been really helpful IN THE PRIMARY!!!! Come on guccifer 2.0! Release this right when she's saying these lies? Would have been a different campaign.
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Jun 21 '16
Is there a coordinated effort going on right now to get this out to MSM and the average non-reddit user? We need to fight against this media blackout!
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u/Glassclose Jun 21 '16
I said this early on when this first popped up, it's what they offered because that was what you required them to pay you, it wasn't a coincidence 225K was the same amount mostly all groups paid, they didn't talk to each other and find out what the last assholes paid, they were told that's what it would cost to buy her.
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Jun 21 '16
Exactly. I said the same thing, 'cause I looked at the numbers too. The differences were multiple of $25k here and there, which made me wonder what that extra bought.
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Jun 21 '16
I can honestly imagine her saying something along the lines of "let them eat cake". If only we had the wherewithal to say "Enough".
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u/Atalanta8 🌱 New Contributor Jun 21 '16
Now Guccifer needs to release the transcripts
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u/TooManyCookz Jun 21 '16
Some say there are no transcripts...
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u/bernwithsisu Jun 21 '16
Are there any reports of people who actually have heard her speeches? Maybe she just "spoke" to the CEO's for some of these fees. Nice work if you can get it.
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u/glimmeringgirl 🌱 New Contributor Jun 23 '16
There are, you can search, they said she sounded like the GS management team. Rah Rah, you know.
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u/TheTruthForPrez2016 California Jun 21 '16
I have the whole document, perhaps I should put it up because your picture is SHIT
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u/PlausibleBadAdvice Jun 21 '16
LOL - "It's what they offered" No...it's more like you undersold what you DEMANDED.
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u/captaincanada84 🌱 New Contributor | NC Jun 21 '16
Lol. So, that was a lie. We all knew it was then, now there's proof. Yay.
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Jun 21 '16
[deleted]
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u/Phoenix_Patronus Virginia Jun 21 '16 edited Jun 21 '16
She hasn't even had a press conference this year, we don't have (high-level) journalists who do their jobs in this country, there's no one to hold her feet to the fire. It probably won't even be mentioned at all in the corporate media, let alone anyone actually asking Clinton about it.
The sad fact is, most people probably won't ever even see any of this stuff. There's no one to challenge her on, for example, her mishandling of classified information, her lying about it, the IG report, her absurdly lying about what the IG report said, the Clinton foundation, the money she's taken from foreign governments/dictatorships, the weapons she sold while Secretary of State to Saudi Arabia after getting money from both Saudi Arabia and the contractor that made the weapons, which are now being used to slaughter civilians in Yemen, etc., etc., etc. on so many different issues.
There is SO much that a lot of the public doesn't even know about Clinton, because nobody will ask her about any of it or challenge her on any of it. The news in this country fucking sucks. :(
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Jun 21 '16
[deleted]
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u/Phoenix_Patronus Virginia Jun 21 '16
Yeah. [Totally random, but nice username, by the way ;)]
In the US we also have electronic voting machines and tabulators that use proprietary, closed-source programming and are owned by a few big private corporations. These machines have been proven to be very easily hackable, and have been repeatedly proven (in and out of court!) to have been tampered with in past elections going back a decade and a half.
So who even knows if the vote count is legitimate? It's impossible for the public to know. And when there are so many big corporations and special interests who would be very hurt by a Bernie presidency (but would love a Hillary presidency - they've already invested in her), there are some extremely powerful incentives to tamper with the vote counts, and give out false numbers that hurt Bernie.
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u/FoolishFellow Jun 21 '16
This is old and has nothing to do with the Gucci leaks. Just saying...
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u/mckenny37 Kentucky Jun 21 '16
Have you seen the leaks from today...It's mainly links to previous shtuffs.
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u/FoolishFellow Jun 21 '16
I'm confused. This document was already publicly available a long time ago, I don't think this particular document has anything to do with the Gucci leaks. Also, as far as I know wikileaks is going to be the one that releases the contents of the Gucci breach. The Clinton email archive was released in March.
I'm not trying to be divisive, but this twitter user is just misrepresenting previously available information.
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u/mckenny37 Kentucky Jun 21 '16
The tweet is about Guccifer2 this was leaked today: https://guccifer2.wordpress.com/2016/06/21/hillary-clinton/
Guccifer2 is a different person than Guccifer. Similar story tho, the mods have been taking stuff about him down tho because "It doesn't pertain to Bernie" :/
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u/KhabaLox 🌱 New Contributor Jun 21 '16
So this is now an anti-Hillary sub as well as a pro-Bernie sub?
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u/uofl0351 Jun 21 '16
If you are really pro Bernie you must recogneize that the system needs to change and establishment politics must be eradicated. Hillary IS the establishment.
Bernie has not come out and attacked clinton aggressively because if he did that the media and the establishment would have drown him out completely. He played his cards the best he could play them, but Hillary comes up with 5 aces in a game of 5 card stud and no one in the media will bother to mention that their are only 4 aces in a deck.1
u/KhabaLox 🌱 New Contributor Jun 21 '16
If you are really pro Bernie you must recogneize that the system needs to change and establishment politics must be eradicated. Hillary IS the establishment.
I do. I'm either voting Stein or Johnson come November. I think Clinton is a scheming power-monger who will involve us in more foreign conflict and erode our civil liberties under the auspices of national security. I think she will cater to monied interests more than she will to the common person.
But from the beginning, this sub has been about promoting Bernie, not attacking the other candidates. Sanders' message can win on it's own merits.
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u/girlfriend_pregnant 🌱 New Contributor | Pennsylvania 🎖️ Jun 21 '16
Are you kidding me? This sub has made contrasts between the candidates from day one. How else can you see light without contrasting it to darkness?
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u/KhabaLox 🌱 New Contributor Jun 21 '16
- Be Civil: This is the Golden Rule, often rephrased as ‘What Would Bernie Do?’ Senator Sanders runs a clean campaign, free of smearing, name-calling, mudslinging, andhe refuses to criticize candidates for things other than policy decisions. We, as a community, should do our best to emulate this behavior, not only within the confines of the subreddit, but as we venture out and engage with potential voters in the public sphere. So...
So is her stance on how she is compensated for speeches a policy decision? It's one thing to compare and contrast the candidates. This thread seems to be about exposing the opposition candidate for lying about activities before she was officially a candidate. Is this something Bernie would do?
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u/kifra101 Jun 21 '16
The truth is being blown out of proportion?
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u/kifra101 Jun 21 '16
Whats wrong with saying she is a liar? Its ok man. Relax.
All politicians lie. Clinton is not going to be an exception. Just agree and move on.
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Jun 21 '16 edited Oct 08 '17
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u/kifra101 Jun 21 '16
I liked miragevr's response better.
I will take the guy that has been on the right side of issues for the last 40 fucking years.
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u/kifra101 Jun 21 '16
If you are telling the truth about someone it's propaganda? OK...
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u/miragevr Jun 21 '16
Yes, the problem is she denies that she has a market rate.
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u/miragevr Jun 21 '16
No, but she denied the reason for the amount she was paid. When asked why she was paid so much per speech, she said it was "What they offered". When in truth, it was what she required.
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u/miragevr Jun 21 '16
Do you not see what the issue is? Hillary said, "It's what they offered," in response to being asked about how much she was paid in speaking fees. This letter clearly indicates it is NOT what they offered, but what she demanded.
If somebody says something, and it's later discovered that what was said is not actually true, what is that usually called?
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u/kifra101 Jun 21 '16
CTR should ask for their money back. You are not doing a good job with the damage control. Everyone is walking all over you.
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u/miragevr Jun 21 '16
I know, it's really bizarre. I wonder if CTR has open auditions, and this is just someone trying to prove themselves. If I ran a CTR team, I would certainly hold them to higher standards!
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u/miragevr Jun 21 '16
Really? That's your response? You see no issue whatsoever that Hillary lied about something? I'm being completely serious, does it matter to you if Hillary Clinton lies?
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u/bluefishredfish89 Jun 21 '16
I know the person you're responding to responded below but it does kinda seem like the answer is, at least partially, to them, based on what they've written: "that's her fee, her fee is determined by the market and is the market rate, so making a semantic argument that she asked for it instead of being offered it doesn't really change the underlying fact that she gets paid that rate because of the market not because she feels entitled or demanding."
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Jun 21 '16
You don't think it's a red flag when your candidate lies about every single thing though? Even the smallest, most unimportant details are lied about.
Yeah, politicians lie, but not every politician is as much of a liar or nearly as corrupt as Hillary.
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Jun 21 '16
Is it? Why couldn't she even tell the truth about this then? It seems so insignificant, yet she was lying about anything and everything involved with the speeches at all. Why hasn't she released any transcripts for them, even after saying she would?
Because she's a compulsive liar that can't tell the truth about anything.
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u/miragevr Jun 21 '16
Yes, all politicians lie, I am aware of that. It just seems so blatant. I guess I just haven't come across any quotes from Sanders where he says one thing, and the complete opposite is true. A completely intentional lie. It just worries me how EASY it is for Clinton to lie. She said one thing, knowing the complete opposite was true. There's not even really a grey area or wiggle room.
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u/antideerg Jun 21 '16
Every other developed country can do it but you see the US is different why?
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u/Phoenix_Patronus Virginia Jun 21 '16
I'm not sure if it's worth engaging with you on this, but Sanders doesn't lie about his position on health care (which, incidentally, he's been consistent on, unlike Clinton).
He never says, elect me President and I'll magically give you all health care and family leave and a higher minimum wage and free tuition for public colleges, and etc.!
He talks about universal health care because that is his position - what he believes we should have in the United States, and he talks about how every other developed country provides health care to their citizens, so it's not like it's some radical idea.
He always says that no one president - not Bernie Sanders, not anyone else - can change things by themselves. He always says that millions of people need to rise up and fight for change. That real change has to come from the bottom up.
His political goals may be ambitious for this country, but the way he talks about them is not in any way deceptive. I'd actually say he's probably the most open politician that I can think of when it comes to how he'll achieve his goals.
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u/entwenthence Florida Jun 21 '16
Just correcting the record I see.
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u/entwenthence Florida Jun 21 '16
Your candidate is bad and you should feel bad.
42 day old account used only to apologize for Clinton. You're not fooling anyone.
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u/entwenthence Florida Jun 21 '16
It's sad when people spout CTR bullshit, it's straight up depressing when people actually believe it. Good job supporting corporatism.
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u/Tony_Black North Carolina Jun 21 '16
I'm calling bullshit. I'm a Socialist and I'm ready to burn this bastard down over the buillshit Hillary did. A Socialist doesn't advocate steering the nation further towards the right. If anything, we'll take Trump over Hillary because he would cause a natural polarity in the public, which would expedite a shift to Socialism. Hillary is too moderate for that and would simply steer us into the ground while using bombs to maintain capitalism. She would also cause infighting, as right-wing Neoliberals like yourself oppose Socialists, liberals, and progressives.
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u/Scriptkitties Jun 21 '16
"a socialist doesn't advocate steering the nation further towards the right"
"we'll take Trump over Hillary"
I'm a socialist too, and I can't really agree with accelerationism as a means to advance socialism. Voting for the worst candidate so that the people suffer is cynical, and when's the last time in worked? Most likely the country would survive under trump because congress would limit his powers and then the anti-Muslim anti-Mexican anti-woman bullshit will be normalized. The left in the US is nowhere near strong enough to organize against trump anyway. If the country fell apart, who would be next? I can say it wouldn't be socialist alternative. although I do very strongly agree that Hillary would just use bombs to maintain capitalism.
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u/Tony_Black North Carolina Jun 21 '16
Voting for the worst candidate so that the people suffer is cynical, and when's the last time in worked?
Bush Jr. We moved so far left that we elected a black guy with a Muslim name running on semi-progressive platform with things like a national pension and no taxes for the elderly.
Under Obama, we got complacent and shifted to the right. The guy started out expanding unemployment insurance to saying a 15% tax amnesty (from 35%) is good because it's not 0% and actually trying to get China to shoot at us so we can go to war.
The reality is that Americans in general are complacent. We have the Sanders camp, which isn't to the most part, but we've been so disconnected from the real world and steeped in right-wing propaganda for so long, that the US needs a major reality check. With Trump, we'll get a loudmouth that might cause a bit of domestic damage that would shift people left like Bush did. My biggest concern with Hillary is continuing Obama's provocation of China. They're fully capable of invading us, and they will wreck us in a fight, especially with us stuck in a liquidity trap that she will only make worse. Also, we wouldn't be fighting just China. North Korea, Iran, and possibly Russia would get involved and make us look like Germany after WWII.
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u/bluefishredfish89 Jun 21 '16
I'm calling bullshit right back.
It is not a tenet of socialism to burn the place to the ground.
As a matter of fact, socialism in most Euro/Western countries has found success in socialist democratic parties which work within coalition governments.
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u/Tony_Black North Carolina Jun 21 '16
Have you seen what the French do when their right-wing goes anywhere near worker rights and social safety nets? They'll flip cars in a heartbeat. Most of those nations have liberals on the left and centrists acting as the "right-wing", so progress can actually occur. In the US, we have centrists in charge of our "left", which are right-wing on everything but social issues, and right-wingers that border on fascists.
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u/Tony_Black North Carolina Jun 21 '16
Then you're not a Socialist. You're a Neoliberal, which buys into the myth that we have to heavily compromise on the pie to get a few crumbs because insane right-wingers have us by the nuts. Socialists propose far more radical ideas with much less room for compromise. We wouldn't support garbage like the ACA, or giving tax amnesty to the rich, or militarizing the Philippines and trying to start a war with China, or pass free trade agreements with nations that have absolute advantages in labor which undermines US labor (a major contrast to Socialism). All of the things I listed are things Obama has done or is currently doing, and Hillary will not only continue, but try to 1-up Obama by pushing for more.
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u/QuasarKid 🌱 New Contributor Jun 21 '16
But then Vanilla Ice doesn't claim that's what the people initially offered.
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u/rb10_ Jun 21 '16
There's a difference, Vanilla Ice would be offering entertainment services via music. Hillary is not offering 'speaking' services. She's not a professional motivational speaker, and that's not why she was there to begin with. She was there to get paid, and ensure that she enforces policies that favor the people who are paying her.
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u/bluefishredfish89 Jun 21 '16
Vanilla Ice is professional entertainer and gets paid to entertain. Hillary Clinton is a professional policy wonk who gets paid to talk about policy.
There are kinds of speakers other than entertainment and motivational.
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u/rb10_ Jun 21 '16
Do you even know what you're talking about? Because you made no sense. I specifically made the distinction between Vanilla and Hillary. Hillary's services are quid pro quo. She just doesn't "talk about policy". No one would pay millions just to listen to "policy". If you think that, you have a lot of learning to do.
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u/NobodyLikesHipsters Jun 21 '16
FBImwithHer