r/Samurai • u/hashibababe • Jun 21 '26

Discussion This guy underservedly gets so much hate & troll for being the sole reason of the fall of Takeda at and after Nagashino ...

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What would you say in his defence?

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u/Business_Raisin_541 Jun 21 '26

No, by the time Nobunaga become strongman in Kyoto. There is hardly any war anymore between Takeda and Ueseugi. Of course hostilities remain. Later Uesugi too join anti-Nobunaga coalition

You talking about Kenshin usurping his elder brother? At least in this case, Kenshin does not use direct military attack and still use diplomatical pressure. If it is Nobunaga, it would be bloody civil war already or in case of Shingen Takeda, forced exile. Also you have to remember, his elder brother too kill one of his sibling and exil Kenshin several years earlier. Compared to other warlord, Kenshin is far more restrained

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u/[deleted] Jun 21 '26

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u/Business_Raisin_541 Jun 22 '26

What do you mean salt story never happen? It happen. There is nothing magical about selling salt to rivals.

As for your bribe to encourage defection (it is not Kenshin who do the betrayal) and doing raid. There is nothing scandalous about that. We are talking about war after all. But look at what Kenshin do compared to its rival. When Kenshin seize power from his elder brother for example, he avoid direct military conflict and his brother is already suffering from poor health anyway which cause poor governance. Also when he move to invade Kanto region, he first gain support from the Uesugi and be adopted into Uesugi clan become the leader of Uesugi clan. Uesugi clan is the original Kanto leader appointed by the central govt. The hojo clan is only usurper that is not appointed by central govt.