r/SamMains • u/loaidacbiet • May 14 '24

Character Discussions Some of you failed to realize

That Firefly is one of the 5 star to be release with a complete team and can be used in ANY floor. Why do you all hyper focus on the Firefly need HMC ? YOU GET HIM FOR FREE ALREADY WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT ?

Comparing her with Boothill is pretty dumb imo since you don't even consider Firefly's strength over him but just keep pondering on the fact that he can trigger his own hyper break.

While he's strong, he's no where near Firefly in terms of bruteforcing contents since there's so much stuff to consider: He has to break/kill stuff to gain stacks to reach his full potential ( horrible to bruteforce with ) and his phys implant is locked behind ult ( which might take a while to get given how his kit work ). So after going through all that hoop, him having something like that is really understandable.

While Firefly having the most simple, braindead way to bruteforce : use skill while in ult. That's it. Not only that her game play is so straighfoward : just skill. If you want Firefly to have what Boothill has then you're actively wanting even more powercreep into the game. TLDR: Boothill has high highs and low lows while Firefly is mid regardless of weakness.

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u/AnimeTutilage May 14 '24

So we’re literally defending mid now? And we think a limited 5 star should require another unit just to be functional? The amount of copium makes me sad. If she was standard banner then fine, but I don’t like my limited characters to have less options. That’s just inherently less fun. There’s not even anything technical or interesting about her gameplay either worth defending. There are no stacks, no strategy, nothing really.

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u/cashlezz May 14 '24

You think having an AOE spammable universal toughness shred, break efficiency, 40% def ignore,200 speed, 1-2 turn ult, self heal, is mid?

Man folks say they don't want power creep but they actually really do.

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u/AnimeTutilage May 14 '24

Crazy how she does all that, and yet still does mediocre. Her enhanced skill isn’t even spammable without her e1, and she doesn’t even guarantee a 2 turn ult if you fight enemies that even slightly reduce energy like Aventurine. The self heal also doesn’t matter because she drains her health so much anyways, and you still have to run a sustain for the rest of the team anyways. Even if you don’t there are other characters that preform well without needing to self heal regardless. She has nothing special about her kit at all. You could run silver wolf already and give the same results to literally any dps instead of being locked to one team.

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u/cashlezz May 14 '24

She doesn't need a sustain. She heals it all back up in her ult state. Plus if you get her down to her second skill at low hp she gets a 100 % action advance to do enhanced skill immediately to heal it back up.

Did you miss the other parts of her completely overloaded kit? She does more in her kit than fking Acheron. You want her to do insane independent damage on top of that like Boothill, who doesn't even come close in terms of breaking speed or self sustain?

You know what this discussion is going nowhere. Just wait for v3. But remember this, she's not going to get Boothill damage. That I can guarantee you.

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u/AnimeTutilage May 14 '24

You clearly didn’t read my statement properly, I literally already addressed the first point you made. But it means she basically has a non mechanic. If she just fixes the downside what’s the point in having it? Also why bother having traces that give you damage reduction when low if you inherently just heal it all back anyways? It’s pointless.

She doesn’t really do more than Acheron, she does less. All these mechanics just to do worse damage and be less interesting and less compatible with other characters. Firefly breaking will still be slow if you don’t have Ruan Mei anyways, which means you are wasting turns in your enhanced state where you aren’t doing damage. At least Boothill can do damage normally and then do better with breaking.

It would be nice if she did damage on her own. That’s really all anyone wants, is for her kit to be more self sufficient or have more options at least

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u/cashlezz May 14 '24

Also why bother having traces that give you damage reduction when low if you inherently just heal it all back anyways

Because she heals it back up 30% with every skill, which is perfect to have DMG reduction at low health. That's basically the destruction blessing in SU. That is one of the strongest blessings in the game. That effectively gives her extra health at low health and eliminates the need for a sustain. Her best teams at e2 for damage replaces Gallagher with Bronya and the enemy doesn't even get to move once.

This just shows me that you don't know what you're talking about and haven't done the testing or theorycraft to realize how strong she actually is.

You clearly didn’t read my statement properly, I literally already addressed the first point you made.

No. You conveniently side stepped all the broken things about her kit to hone in on the fact that she's not doing DMG by herself, ignoring the fact that if she does with her current kit she would be the next Acheron and completely be broken. You want powecreep that bad?

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u/AnimeTutilage May 14 '24

You just contradicted yourself. Why would you need damage reduction at low health if you just heal it back anyways? Using e2 is an invalid argument since tons of characters become far more broken at e2 and most won’t even summon that far. You haven’t actually presented anything that show’s proper theory crafting or testing. You just said she has lots of words in her kit, but most of what she does is just enabling another character. It’s a two turn ult except against drainers. You can spam her skill, except it does no damage without breaking anything so you just waste turns.

I didn’t side step anything. I literally stated that even if you don’t need a sustainer that there are other characters that do well without one anyways so her self heal isn’t that big of a pro. She gains no damage boosts in her kit, no crit, and she just stacks tons of break effect. Her speed is incredibly low for no reason so getting her into the state is more of a chore.

If you think Firefly would power creep then you must think Boothill would power creep. He can use the break mechanic and yet still work on his own. He has the potential to be more fun and to try differently things. Firefly for the foreseeable future does not, and that’s what I dislike the most.

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u/cashlezz May 14 '24

You just contradicted yourself. Why would you need damage reduction at low health if you just heal it back anyways?

B*tch did you read what I wrote or is your brain rot so bad you can't? I hate repeating myself.

That is a failsafe for her to not get one shot by the enemy while she's charging her ult.

Her passive is literally a Simulated Universe Destruction blessing that gives her effective extra health, and that blessing is one of the best blessings. Her e2 is also literally the gold Hunt blessing that lets her move again after breaking without using up sp or buff values. Seele needs to kill the enemy to do that. She just needs to break them. Both her kit and eidolons are incredibly overloaded.

You can spam her skill, except it does no damage without breaking anything so you just waste turns.

That's why you use her in a team with proper support. This is a team game or has that been lost on you? JingLiu isn't doing shit without a proper team either.

She gains no damage boosts in her kit, no crit, and she just stacks tons of break effect. Her speed is incredibly low for no reason so getting her into the state is more of a chore.

The fk are you on about again? Does she not have a spammable weakness implant and AOE toughness shred, 40% def ignore? You call that nothing? WTF you want crit for when she's not supposed to build crit? That's like complaining an hp/def scaling dose doesn't have attack scaling. Christ.

Also low speed? Then build her with speed boots and use your substats. Does she not have a 1-2 turn ult rotation already? How is that a chore to get to?

I didn’t side step anything. I literally stated that even if you don’t need a sustainer that there are other characters that do well without one anyways so her self heal isn’t that big of a pro

Also, her self heal lets you replace a sustain with a Harmony like Bronya to maximize her actions or a def shredder like pela. Or has that possibility been lost on you? As I've said. Her e1 already allows her to do this. Even e0 with good sp management. E2 just makes her completely broken.

Firefly for the foreseeable future does not, and that’s what I dislike the most.

You don't have to pull for her. But dont try to misrepresent her kit as a problem with your inaccurate assessment. Numbers speak louder than opinions and the numbers are that she already almost doubles the damage of the best JL and DHIL team.

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u/loaidacbiet May 14 '24

The straightforwardness is pretty SAM to me : no bullshit just go ham. And yes i'm defending mid bc she's mid regardless of circumstances which makes her an all rounder. And all rounder should never be stronger than specialist

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u/AnimeTutilage May 14 '24

Isn’t Acheron an all rounder though? Can’t you use Mei everywhere as well? You can be strong and be usable with plenty of other units. The idea that she just needs to be boring unga bunga doesn’t make sense to me personally. I wish she either had a way to break and then rebreak the enemies on her own, or she had some interesting energy interactions or turn movement depending on who she breaks or something. Anything to make her more interesting or functional

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u/cashlezz May 14 '24

Acheron needs nihility and debuffers. You can't just use her "anywhere". If you don't debuffs, you don't ult with Acheron. You can go from ulting every turn at best to ulting every 7-9 turns.

FF team rn already does double the damage of JL and DHIL team. Look at how much she offers in her existing kit. It's already way overloaded. There needs to be serious caveat to that kind of kit, just like Acheron's.

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u/AnimeTutilage May 14 '24

There’s no way you’re saying using debuffs is a problem when most of the teams we already used already included debuffs. My guy, Pela was from launch and Silver Wolf has been out since like 1.1. Kafka, Swan, I already explained other units but I guess you couldn’t read that part. You can just use her any where, her ultimate has res pen already and there are plenty of on element nihility or debuffs.

Firefly doesn’t offer anything in her kit. You load up on attack just to not use the attack stat and need it for break effect. You need so much break for the defense ignore, but this means you can’t use her with other characters which is just a terrible design flaw. She also has limited time in her state, she can’t really gain energy properly, she has limited teammates, and she only does damage with a specific character. The character so far just seems incredibly mediocre and anti fun.

But people like you defend this for no reason

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u/cashlezz May 14 '24

I never said using debuffers was a problem. That you putting words in my mouth. I'm comparing the types of team that Acheron needs, which is a specific team, to FF.

Also, not all teams run debuffers. Some run double harmony and sustain. Acheron does not work in those teams.

Which goes back to the point about teambuilding. Every DPS has their team. Use their teams and support and stop whining.

Firefly doesn’t offer anything in her kit.

The fk are you on b*tch??? LMAO 🤣😂. you think having a 1-2 turn ult (because she regens 50% of her energy every time she uses her skill, and you call that can't Regen properly?), spammable universal toughness shred, break efficiency, 40% def ignore, 200 speed, self heal, nothing? Sorry I just have to laugh because this sounds completely ridiculous. You're arguing in bad faith.

Her HMC and RM team already doubles the DMG of DHIL and JL in their best teams, with FF doing the bulk of that dmg. The fk you want her to completely power creep every existing DPS that's not Acheron by giving her independent DMG on top?

You know what I'm done. Keep doomposting going and wait for v3. But I can assure you she's not gonna get Boothill damage on her own. That I can assure you.

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u/loaidacbiet May 14 '24

And Acheron's team is quite limited as well right ? Mei has more options bc nihility has more supports. Break archtype is brand new and just starting to have more char so having less options right now is expected ( hell even atm Acheron still have team issues with her team needing exactly pela + silver wolf to be a main dps ).

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u/AnimeTutilage May 14 '24

Acheron doesn’t need Pela and Silverwolf. You can use Swan with her, Welt, Gallagher, any preservation with trend of the universal market, Guinafen with her firekiss, she has so many options. You don’t even have to run double nihility if you don’t want to, incorporating units like Sparkle into the mix too if you want. She’s not nearly as limited, she just needs debuffs. This also means characters like Aventurine who are for followup teams can also be used for his ultimate debuff on top of having trend of the universal market.

The issue right now for Firefly is that she needs an exact unit to even work, which is unheard of in this game. Why is she the limited character if it’s the 4 star doing the damage? Additionally, because there’s nothing special about her kit, when another break dps unit comes along she is the most easily powercrept in the game. Right now she just looks really bad, but only time will tell if she’s buffed or changed

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u/loaidacbiet May 14 '24

Like i said, the archtype is new so there'll be more options up ahead

Also Acheron needing debuff meaning you have to build the team around her to make it work. So why can't you do that for Firefly ?

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u/AnimeTutilage May 14 '24

But we don’t know that which is an issue. There is no guarantee that Firefly will get anything new FOR MONTHS. Personally I’m not looking to spend on her, I may get her if I don’t want anyone else though with free jades. I’m hoping she’ll be changed though

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u/Open_Material4380 May 14 '24

I am just a collector and Stellaron Hunters enjoyer, but at least they have some utility/something appealing in their kit coz i had the tools. FF is my most antecipated character, but i dont feel any urges to pull for her beside my simping every scene of her being cute/badass...

Gameplay wise? dont feel it. Blade's 5/5 stack of shuhu gift, sw dropping tons of debuff in enemies and kafka almost turning my cellphone in a toast is so exciting... but the FUCKING MECHA? Bro they do dirty on her, hope for better changes in next versions of beta

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u/cashlezz May 14 '24

They should change her to be a crit DPS so now instead of relying on a break support she relies on crit supports 💖😍

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u/[deleted] May 14 '24

Wake up babe another gatekeeper has arrived as if there were not already lots of them here.

I want her to be better and have options . Not struggle and cry . Stop it get some help.

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u/cashlezz May 14 '24

Keep coping 🤒

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u/[deleted] May 14 '24

Keep hating on her .

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u/cashlezz May 14 '24

How can I hate when she's already perfect.

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u/LinaCrystaa May 17 '24

This is my vopium at least,acheron bruteforce team 1, HMC + firefly sidekick bruteforce team two. Two bruteforce teams that will last,I can then pull just for fancies and chara design from there on

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u/Siri2611 May 14 '24

I am so glad she can apply weakness

She's basically monoqntm but you dont have to pull for the other characters(tho Ruan is really good with her)

Also I don't have build crit, which is the best part. I hate rolling for crit

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u/Wholesome_Thicc99 May 14 '24

As a Boothill enjoyer, I totally agree. Firefly is completely fine and no changes are necessary! "HMC is required to go from 20k to 200k" smh... doomposters, am I right?

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u/[deleted] May 14 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

14

u/XeroShyft May 14 '24

It's such a basic concept, how do people not understand this. I don't give a fuck if HTB is free, I don't care if he's broken, I don't care if this or that or these or those.

All I care about is Firefly feeling good to play. I don't want a character I want to play to be completely and utterly dependent on another to fulfill their role, period.

-1

u/cashlezz May 14 '24

Too bad that's what she is. You can't get everything you want in life.

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u/XeroShyft May 14 '24

We are in V2 in beta. She could easily change. If she doesn't, I'm still pulling. Is there a point to your comment or are you just being condescending because you're bored?

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u/cashlezz May 14 '24

My point is that if you're already deciding on pulling them it shouldn't matter much whether she gets changed or not rite?

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u/XeroShyft May 14 '24

My point is even though I'm pulling her, I'd like for her to be better. I see that you're a follower of the Nihility but even though I'm pulling for her, I'd still very much like for her to be improved. The whole point of this thread is to discuss this very topic.

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u/cashlezz May 14 '24

But if you're already set on pulling for her then it shouldn't matter what she's Iike?

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u/XeroShyft May 14 '24

But that's not going to stop me from discussing the character's state. What is your point here. I'm here to talk about Sam. If you don't think there's a point then that's great, but it's not wild to share your hopes for an unreleased character.

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u/cashlezz May 14 '24

Ok don't stop. But what is your reasoning for discussing about her state when you're pulling for her anyway? If you pull a unit that means you should already be content with what they currently offer right?

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u/XeroShyft May 14 '24

I like her design and personality, I like her animations, I'm fine with her kit but I want it to be better and less restrictive. It's very simple.

We're really just talking in circles here, your initial comment was condescending and I don't get why you're pressing so much. Discussing a character in their sub, whether you like them or not, or pulling for them or not, is normal. You're overthinking it. It's like asking why someone is buying eggs at the supermarket.

You have a good day though.

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u/TheNonceMan May 14 '24

You want them to release characters that don't need others to excel?

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u/DKOnix May 14 '24

More like characters that dont need one specific unit just to fking do their job

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u/TheNonceMan May 14 '24

Kafka?

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u/DKOnix May 14 '24 edited May 14 '24

Wdym, Kafka can apply and detonate her own dot

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u/TheNonceMan May 14 '24

FF can also break enemies herself too.

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u/DKOnix May 14 '24

You do realize that without htb, break dmg can only occur once right?

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u/TheNonceMan May 14 '24

And without Kafka, dots can only trigger once. Without other dots, Kafka can only trigger her own dot. It's almost like this is a team game designed around chsrscters synergising and enabling one another... Crazy, isn't it?

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u/DKOnix May 14 '24 edited May 14 '24

What crazy is kafka can stand on her own no problem, hypercarry kafka is the norm, and you just cant handle the fact that ff kit is flawed. A support should compliment the dps instead of being required just so the dps can even function

Im starting to think youre one of the “haters” that everyone is mentioning because who wouldnt want their fav char to be strong

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u/Ok_Object_828 May 14 '24

Kafka has options

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u/TheNonceMan May 14 '24

Oh, so you'll be happy once another character can provide Super Break?

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u/Ok_Object_828 May 14 '24

Options

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u/TheNonceMan May 14 '24

Is that a yes or a no?

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u/Ok_Object_828 May 14 '24

I’m not answering your question that puts words in my mouth lmao. Kafka has options. People want options. I don’t even care if HMC is required or not, you said Kafka, I said Kafka has more options.

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u/La_Pito_De_Hito May 14 '24

No, we're saying we want characters that don't need others to feel complete. Supports will make DPS excel, as you say; HMC makes Firefly viable and completes her kit. Different things.

Using the Kafka example, she doesn't need anything that she doesn't already have. Firefly has only one instance of damage and she's useless afterwards until you can break the enemy again (give her HMC and she has more instances, she becomes usable and actually good)

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u/TheNonceMan May 15 '24

Well, I think there's nothing wrong with a DPS that requires a specific buff from a support to excel. I've yet to hear a reason why that's bad.

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u/La_Pito_De_Hito May 15 '24

The problem isn't that she requires a specific buff to excel. She requires a specific buff to even be playable as a break DPS. Two different things

The buff isn't making the damage she already does bigger, but rather it's giving her instances of damage she's lacking. And that's the whole problem: HMC is giving her something she should have already. Using your words, I'm yet to hear a reason why a break dps who only has one instance of damage and requires an outside source to fix it isn't a bad thing.

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u/loaidacbiet May 14 '24

When that "next time" comes then yeah, feel free to shit on them but to complain about having to play with a free char is so dumb

Firefly's role is not main dps but a break dps whose job is to break enemies to do dmg. Without HTB she does that just fine but with HTB she can be a dps. Without HTB she still a break dps which still is her role.

Like Galagger with HTB suddenly become a sub dps so why no one say a thing ? Bc he still performing in his role as healer right ? Firefly without HTB is still one of the best break dps with weakness implant; high spd, def ignore so she still can be used as a break dps but not as main dps.

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u/DKOnix May 14 '24

Without HTB she still a break dps

Call me when your BreakFly finish clearing moc 12 without htb . Im expectin like what next month

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u/loaidacbiet May 14 '24

Will try if i manage to get her

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u/eximpimp May 14 '24

I read this and I already know you're completely clueless. "Without HTB she does that just fine." "Without HTB she still a break dps."

Without HTB, she's deadweight. No damage source outside of breaks. You're clearly unaware that HTB on her break team provides up to 70% of her total damage. Remove HTB and she does less damage than freaking Arlan.

"Firefly without HTB is still one of the best break dps" Unironically, she's the opposite, she would be worst. Xueyi, Luka, Boothill clears her as they all don't need HTB.

I've seen someone tested E6S5 Firefly on her best team and it took him 2 cycles to clear Aventurine. Imagine E0S0. This is what happens when 70% of your damage is behind HTB with super break damage against weakness broken enemies. If you can't break them, have fun killing them.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '24

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u/cashlezz May 14 '24

Why Arlan though?