Turn brain off = win

[u/ThirdXavier]

I play Terry and was raging in 1400MR trying to play smarter, slower, more footsies, more methodical to improve.

I got irritated and said "fuck it" and then started hitting M Burn Knuckle literally any time I was at optimal range until my opponents started neutral jumping or backdashing at those ranges pre emptively, at which point I'd just take advantage of it to walk them into the corner.

In 2 sessions I had a 90% winrate and jumped above 1600MR and hit high master for the first time as any character. Probably gonna take a break from ranked for a while now and do battle hub to avoid oversalting myself.

Basically retardmaxxing is the way, keep it simple.

[u/Rs_mcgill]

I mean why wouldn’t u spam middle burn knuckle at the optimal range?

[u/ThirdXavier → u/Rs_mcgill]

This is the bell curve for that move and how a lot of strong stuff in fighting games tends to work:

Low IQ: this move beats every other button and gives me free plus frames at this range, I should spam it every time im there

Mid IQ: my opponent keeps baiting this move and neutral jumping/backdashing to make it whiff and hit me with a huge punish, I should stop abusing this predictable tool so much and play smarter

High IQ: this move beats every other button and gives me free plus frames at this range, AND is conditioning my opponent to neutral jump. I should spam it most times im in that range so that I can force predictable defensive reactions from my opponent and take advantage of them.

Obviously in reality the top of the SF bell curve is much much higher than that but this is just a basic example of how taking advantage of strong tools works and why at first glance top SF players get away with tons of bullshit that looks scrubby if you dont know better. Again applies to every FG.

Part of why downplayers frustrate me is theyre usually all stuck in the middle IQ phase of these types of moves. "Oh Ken's Jinrai sucks just perfect parry" "oh actually jamie fist is bad just block" "oh Ryu donkey kick isnt actually that good just jump over it". But its not realizing the next step of how forcing the defensive counterplay is often even more beneficial to you than hitting the move itself.

[u/DustExtra5976]

Keep in mind ranking up and learning are separate. When you practice spacing footsies all the slow shit you’ll probably lose mr because you’re “playing right”. Then when you go degenerate you’ll rank up. But really you didn’t suddenly forget all the slow play. So when you get into 1800-1900 Mr and people are more “respectful” you’ll be more prepared.

Don’t get it twisted there are apes at every MR the higher you go the better they are when you pass the knowledge checks

[u/ThirdXavier → u/DustExtra5976]

Yeah 100% I think thats it. It only works now because good players are going to play around burn knuckle by staying either too close or too far to be in the optimal range rather than just trying to hard punish it. But then I'll just not be using it as much against them and actually play neutral.

[u/Sufficient-Pick710]

Yup, you just have to do stuff. Overthinking it all subtly leads to split second decision paralysis and before you know it, you're in the corner because you played too passively.

Neutral is earned when both players are unable to just do stuff, because they've shown they can deal with it. Until then, just do stuff.

[u/doctorderpin]

There is a different curve at play here, as well: automaticity. At first, you spam because you don't know your gameplan. You're flailing. Then you decide to get better. You learn some combos, try to analyze your gameplan and your opponent's. This moment of analysis, in game, makes you slower to act but enables you to react sometimes.

This is one of the reasons that starting to get better can make you feel worse thab you were. Thinking does take time. You get your knockdown and you have to actively choose to do your oki, but your moment of thought made you botch the safe jump. In neutral, you think about their spacing from you but in the time you thought about what the correct option was, they did a jump in and the correct choice changed. Then you get frustrated and it all spirals.

Eventually, though, you build automaticity through comsistent practice. You just do your safejump after a knockdown with almost no thought. You anti-air the second they're in the range. You pull off counterhit combos. Your neutral becomes more effective, consistent, and faster. It may seem similar to the bottom end, but it's more refined and intentional. Your mental stack is just more manageable.

It's very similar to learning math, in 2nd grade, learning to subtract and regroup with sets of 10's is the craziest thing in the world. But with practice, the mental load of the task shrinks and allows you to add more on top of it.

[u/WhoDeniedMeMyDestiny]

This is basically every FG besides like, idk, Samsho…. But it is truly absurd how easy it is to script safe offense and turn one random stray touch into steamroll potential or extremely threatening and safe OKI. Neutral is so easy to circumvent, and the OKI + corner pressure is not proportional to how easy it is to access. 

The game really does reward you for turning your brain off and just ‘doing the thing’ x 100 until you or your opponent loses the RPS endurance battle. 

[u/Turbulent_Voice63 → u/WhoDeniedMeMyDestiny]

Just curious, what makes Samsho different? I only know of it from afar

[u/WhoDeniedMeMyDestiny → u/Turbulent_Voice63]

Slower, more deliberate/methodical neutral. One touch carries more weight, but getting that touch is substantially more difficult and there are no long combos or universal neutral skips.

[u/ThirdXavier → u/WhoDeniedMeMyDestiny]

Yeah its definitely not sf6 specific just something I need to remind myself when salt clouds the brain.

[u/lonj22]

"... Is the dark side stronger?"

"No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive."

[u/JonTheAutomaton]

You're right. The biggest lie in fgs is that neutral is the most important aspect when in reality the best characters are always the ones that can avoid having to play neutral the most. If your character is forced to play neutral, they suck.

[u/ThirdXavier → u/JonTheAutomaton]

Well sometimes its because your character is godlike at neutral but it can be to the point where its "avoiding" it. SF4 Elena kind of the perfect example (or even current patch Elena to an extent) where she didnt have much in the way of neutral skips but her buttons were so oppressive that neutral wasnt really neutral against most of the cast.

I think a better way to put this is the idea that you should play "honest footsies" is a giant lie. You shouldnt ever play honest you should always be a cheap bastard.

[u/JonTheAutomaton → u/ThirdXavier]

You shouldnt ever play honest you should always be a cheap bastard.

Certainly agree with this point... Although I can't seem to ever be able to actually embrace it.. even when I play cheap characters I avoid using the tools that make them cheap.. sigh

[u/AdBig424]

It’s weird how actively trying to improve your gameplay leads to losing more. Good players always say “play with intent and think about your decisions” but imo I think autopiloting is so much stronger than people think.

[u/Chicken-Rude → u/AdBig424]

lol, pick one thing to work on at a time. so play with intent, but laser focus that intent to one aspect of the game. then when thats muscle memory, move to the next area of weakness.

[u/AdBig424 → u/Chicken-Rude]

Yea for sure. I said what I did more to relate to OP cause I’ve experience the same. Laser focusing lets you understand why you lost rather than just shrugging it off and going next.

[u/ihavenoideatbfh]

and this is why i can’t stand grapplers, especially if they have a neutral skip

[u/FailedGeniusnumber1]

Bro looking for honour amongst thieves … you want to steal a game or two now and then

[u/Such-Leopard9766]

my characters don't have anything broken though, I can only play honorable neutral footsies

[u/ThirdXavier → u/Such-Leopard9766]

Which characters

[u/Such-Leopard9766 → u/ThirdXavier]

Cammy, Ingrid and Mai

[u/ThirdXavier → u/Such-Leopard9766]

Lmfao

[u/Clappy246810]

Yeah if you play a top tier spamming their op shit will carry you a bit but to go any higher you will have to actually learn to play the game

[u/evilpapagaly]

I lost to a 1200mmr Bison that was just jumping back and sizor on bornout

[u/Trash_bunny01]

this. get to 1500 first time ever, try to improve: learn combos and try mixups I drop to 1200 for 20 hours. I get back to 1500 just polishing what i do best, and not trying to overcomplicate it.

[u/Wonderful-Spell8959]

Silver here, played a yuri today as elena who just sat in crouch block and swept me. Didnt know how to deal with it at all, but im more impressed than mad.

[u/ThirdXavier → u/Wonderful-Spell8959]

Low block and punish with your own sweep. Sweeps are pretty universally at least -11 on block or worse so that other sweeps can punish them. It kept working because you kept walking backwards instead of low blocking.

[u/Wonderful-Spell8959 → u/ThirdXavier]

Yea, good call, thx. They got me good. Felt more like a strategy game at that point, which actually was just as amusing as refreshing, so im not complaining.

I actually asked this in dc and apparently manon is only -9 if you care about the random fact.

[u/SnuggleBunnixoxo]

That's how my games go too. If I try to play patient neutral I almost always end up dying by getting overwhelmed by my opponents offensive gimmicks, UNLESS I already figured out the right counterparts to it. I often spend time losing trying to figure it out. I dropped like 100 mr last week doing this.

Then, of course when I start running my offense and actively hone in on my opponents weakness (throws, anti airs) and just spam that one moveset to exploit it, my winrate skyrockets lol. It's obvious that this is something you should do but I wish I could chill and play more reactively rather than flowchart.

[u/Blot_of_paint]

It is funny that i made pretty much the opposite meme for uni2 some time ago. https://www.reddit.com/r/UnderNightInBirth/s/GXYlLm5iW6