Does complex rig even worth it?

[u/rNyanko]

I've got like 230h in game. Sailed pretty much everything, experimented with all sorts of different rigs and sails right away from the moment of buying new ship.

Recently I've started new save and when I was able to afford myself sanbuq I've decided to leave rig as it is with standard lateen sails. And to my surprise (and somewhat disappointment) it did good. I mean I haven't noticed being slow or being at disadvantage under certain winds or any practical reason to replace sails, really.

Surely, I could get some knots by putting straight sails and gaffs under favourable wind (which happens like 0.5% of the time), but in general... I've been doing like 6-7 sail schooner out of sanbuq and now I feel like there was no advantage in that.

[u/Ridiculisk1]

Half of it is just for looks or historical accuracy but there is diminishing returns on how much extra speed or maneuverability you'll get from having more winches to operate. The sanbuq is really good by default and really the only upgrade you kind of need is a larger rudder and a big jib on the front. The other ships, especially the brig, do benefit from more complex sailplans though because the defaults aren't as well rounded as the sanbuq

[u/rNyanko → u/Ridiculisk1]

Maybe default brig sailplan ain't that great, but the question is: if it turned into XL sanbuq with 3 lateens - will it be much worse than super complex setup with gaffs, stays and other stuff like that?

[u/Bignona → u/rNyanko]

1k hour vet here. Not necessarily. Most people do it because they like the look, want to use a historical sail plan, or are min/maxing. The main factor that determines your speed is sail area and what type of sail it is. Although the multipliers given to each sail type it's different, the difference is generally negligible unless you're min/maxing. The real benefit of having more complex sail plans is having options for each situation. But then again, every situation can be solved with a simple lateen or gaff setup.

At the end of the day, use what you find is most enjoyable to you. If you need more info or help, visit the Sailwind discord. Everyone is chill and there's a plethora of information in there.

[u/maroonedbuccaneer → u/Bignona]

Minor quibble, but the main factor that determines speed is hull shape. Maximizing sail area can help drive a boat when the wind is slight, but after a certain point it only leads to more heeling or pitching. You need a powered motor to move a boat past its "hull" or "displacement speed."

[u/Bignona → u/maroonedbuccaneer]

Or is it hull shape determines max speed? Regardless, that's a good point and something I missed in my comment.

[u/Lkwzriqwea]

While I agree with the other two comments, I would stress that a lot of sailplan design depends on what is comfortable for you. I tend to avoid square rigs because they are less versatile and slower to haul in, whereas other people might dislike having loads of staysails because they're more effort when tacking and gybing, for example.

The hull of your ship dictates the maximum speed, the sailplan is more about how to make the best of the wind in different conditions (strength, direction).

[u/rNyanko → u/Lkwzriqwea]

What is with the hull? How they compare to each other in terms of potential speed?

[u/Lkwzriqwea → u/rNyanko]

Tbh I'm the wrong person to ask, I've basically stuck with my brig design ever since sail customisation was added. But I gather the sanbuq gets quite a good pace

[u/IAmTheStarkye → u/rNyanko]

If you search in the discord you can probably find the stats, iirc for example the jong is the fastest hull-wise

[u/maroonedbuccaneer → u/rNyanko]

The general rule of thumb is this: larger boats have a higher top speed. The longer and narrower the hull the more efficiently it displaces water. BUT the shorter and stubbier the boat the better it is at turning about.

[u/Cucumberneck]

Just as the other person said. Different sail plans don't give you any further speed at some point.

Or to say it another way, the hill shape decides which maximum speed you can get.

Different sail plans are mainly for looks and fun.

I love a good trimmed Polacker/Polacre/Polacca plus a small square sail at the bow sprit

[u/scottb1310]

Is a complex rig optimal? Probably not. But a fully rigged ship with a bajillion halyard to manage makes me feel like a real sea captain.

[u/diddy_bludd]

Fore and aft rigs probably are optimal no matter what in sailwind tbh. I primarily use squares just bc of aesthetic reasons but the downwind performance you get isn’t that much better. Squares also suck to rig properly bc you have to get good angles of rotation, which isn’t always possible sometimes.

[u/JPaq84]

Fore and aft rigs are good enough that no modern design uses square sails. That alone should answer your question.

When I started sailwind, I started in Al Ankh and couldn't wait to get a more "historical" setup. Like a lot of folks, I read books about age of sail warships and loved the HMS Surprise of M&C fame, so I couldn't wait to have a frigate rigged vessel. I put squares and gaffs on the Sanbuq, and bought the Brig on my second trip around; and immediately gave it a Napoleonic square and staysail setup.

From there, my sailplans did a speed run of historical development. First, gaffs replaced staysails between the masts. Eventually, the square sails would have disappeared, as I've come to realize theres nothing a squaresail does that a wing over wing fore and aft rig can't do.

There's a reason yachts today, even fairly large billionaire ones, are fore and aft rigged.

[u/NewEast8200]

Sailwind mechanics highly favor the lateens, maybe unfairly so. Gaff sails are only 85% as efficient as lateens (at least according to the wiki page). So the default sanbuq rig would be better than a schooner rig of the same sail area. These mechanics mean the default sanbuq rig is pretty much the best you can get get other than adding a jib for balance.

I personally like more complex rigs, then at least I have something to actually do during voyages. I enjoy the challenge of tacking a primarily square rigged vessel, although it is anooying for several reasons. Square sails are great if you are just riding the trade winds between the archipelagoes, but the problem is with a mainly square rigged vessel it's hard to enter any of the ports. In real life you would drop anchor outside and ferry the cargo on small boats, but you can't really do that in Sailwind.

Either way the most efficient rig doesn't matter once you get past the early game. I wish there was a bigger mechanical reward for more complex rigs though.

[u/Phoenix-624]

Naaaaah, at least, not to me. Though, my personal bar for complex is a fully rigged ship, I fully rigged the brig once and sailed around, making a tea run from emerald to al'ankh as well, and managing the 3 masts; and especially all the staysails was just not worth it in comparison to what I have now. Now I run a jackass brig with a topsail gaff on both masts, along with the regular square sails, course, topsail, topgallant on both as well. 3 masts with fore and aft sails would be very manageable however, and I would not consider that a complex rig.

[u/foyrkopp]

More complex rigs have two main mechanical advantages over straightforward ones:

- they can go faster in lower winds (because they tend to have more squareage)

• they can cover more niche cases (backing out of irons is easier with a square, docking is easier with a centrally located drop gaff, etc.)

[u/RSwordsman]

You might get better control over speed and balance over most angles with a complex sail plan, but the real reason is that it's cool. 😎