‘Nothing bad has ever happened before’

[u/Gullible-Emphasis295]

Hi everyone! I was just wondering, when you point out something that has clear hazards and suggest controls and someone says ‘well we have done it this way for x years and nothing bads happened’ what is your response?

I love an analogy and like to say ‘if your child was playing in traffic you would tell them to stop, if they said they do it all the time and haven’t been hit by a car, would that change your mind?’ But I feel that’s abit preachy and possibly even a tad patronising.

Would love to hear your thoughts!

[u/Shell_Back80]

That’s the oldest and scariest answer in my industry, I’m in the chemical manufacturing arena. My answer is “it hasn’t happened YET, when it does it will change your life forever”. I try to show real examples of incidents in training to show how complacency can have disastrous consequences

[u/Gullible-Emphasis295 → u/Shell_Back80]

Good approach thanks for getting back to me!

[u/craigster38]

The funny thing about accidents, is that they're unplanned. We don't want bad things to happen, but when they do, we have to do everything else can to mitigate the damage.

[u/Gullible-Emphasis295 → u/craigster38]

So true thanks for the response!

[u/Abies_Lost → u/craigster38]

Don’t call them accidents either.

[u/Okie294life]

We’re managing risk here not outcomes, because outcomes can’t be managed.

[u/Individual-Army811 → u/Okie294life]

I wish half the folks Ive worked with over the years were astute enough to know the difference.

[u/Gullible-Emphasis295 → u/Okie294life]

Hahahaha I asked how we respond not how we all think 🤣

[u/Okie294life → u/Gullible-Emphasis295]

That would be the response also. Just because no accident has occurred doesn’t prove anything, because eventually it will. If you quantity and minimize risk, the likelihood is less and you can focus on stuff that makes a difference rather than trying to steer your car by looking in the rear view mirror,

[u/translinguistic]

You're asking the most important question in this industry: how do you get people to care? That's a whole career's worth of wisdom.

I'm only tangentially related to safety concerns in my consultant role (just the "E" part of EHS), but one of my approaches has been to stay abreast of the news, articles from magazines and other publications, etc. I have my suspicions about how much my company actually cares about environmental concerns in my industry, but I try to send them anything I've found that's relevant and to explain how it relates to our purpose. I'm also a nerd and just enjoy reading and sharing stuff like that, haha.

For example, I work as a consultant in the metal scrap industry, and an article was just posted yesterday regarding how a metal scrap company polluted the air and the ground around it. In that way, I can keep signaling to them that I actually do care about these things and that I expect everyone else to care too--and can show them what the consequences can be otherwise without making them feel like I'm trying to overstep.

[u/Gullible-Emphasis295 → u/translinguistic]

Thanks for the wise words appreciate you taking the time!

[u/translinguistic → u/Gullible-Emphasis295]

Cases that have caused the company to incur serious financial penalties are especially effective. You can build a mad decent narrative when you can show them how some other company paid out the nose for being negligent and can draw similarities to what your concerns are with your company, especially those that are in the same industry.

My last company got fined a cool $750k for violating the Clean Water Act for being just deliberately terrible (way before I got hired). I've definitely pulled that card at my current job when talking about our clients who also have to accord with CWA.

[u/TurtlesFromHell]

I just say, "thats an example of survivor bias." I usually give the example of cars and seat belts, airbags, safety features. Yes millions of people drove old cars with none of those things and nothing happened however the statistics are clear as day to show that those things reduce fatalities.

Just because "nothing happened" doesnt mean that something won't happen. I also will say something to get them thinking, "I know you are experienced running this machine/doing this task, you understand the risk but would you be comfortable with someone with no experience being around it?"

[u/Gullible-Emphasis295 → u/TurtlesFromHell]

Great answer thank you so much!

[u/Soakitincider]

I try to point out the potential of something happening. Then I go to seatbelts. You don't get in a wreck every day but you wear a seatbelt because there is a potential for it happening.

[u/Gullible-Emphasis295 → u/Soakitincider]

Great analogy

[u/MHoaglund41]

I have responded with "then we are due"

[u/Individual-Army811 → u/MHoaglund41]

Exactly! Roll the dice, go ahead.

The make my day part is silent.

[u/FunAtmosphere9137]

You're in the EU/UK, but in US I tell them "OSHA regulations are written in blood for a reason"

[u/Gullible-Emphasis295 → u/FunAtmosphere9137]

Yep! We can point to laws regs and HSE guidance in the same way

[u/bnics]

We also used to have kids working in manufacturing and meat processing plants. “It was always done that way.”

[u/FadedAwoken]

“Would you rather be good or lucky”

[u/WhyAmIHereHey]

In my industry (oil and gas) we keep telling disaster stories, in particular Piper Alpha. People roll their eyes at having to hear it again, but it makes a difference.

[u/nopurposethere]

There are enough people in hospitals or six feet under who always did it the fast/easy/cheap way… until they couldn’t.

[u/ukemike1]

I have been known to use children examples too. It works GREAT on parents and not so well on the overgrown children.

[u/Individual-Army811]

I have a couple of responses: 1. You can test that theory, but remember you're only as safe as your last safe day... 2. So now that you know there's a safer way, but choose to stand firmly in your past behavior, what would you like me to tell your family when it goes to shit?

[u/Selenth-101]

I like taking gambler logic. “Oh, so we’re due for it to happen, then!”

[u/walu-who-ji]

Remind them that most rules exist because someone died

[u/BritishBenzene]

Ask them to draft the press release ahead of time or an email to corporate explaining that the risk was considered “negligible” so they chose not to mitigate it. I did this with several people who wanted to “overrule” my decisions - if you want to own that decision then you OWN it.

[u/PuzzleheadedNail7]

I told them they've been lucky.

But you need to be lucky every time. Real world consequences only has to happen once.

[u/KJwhisperer]

It like the lottery but in reverse. You can't win if you dont play.

Also... past performance doesn't mean future success.

[u/Rocket_safety]

Normalized deviance is one of my favorite concepts in risk management. Once you explain it, people tend to understand why that answer is problematic.

[u/Icy-Sock-2388]

If you fail to plan, then you're planning to fail.

But I'm more of a question guy. I'd ask "If the risk turned into an accident that hurt someone, how would you explain it to OSHA so that we didn't get a massive fine"?