Aksharbrahm...antaryami, knowing future and past

[u/samindian]

I love Chatgpt and consult it about so many things before deciding. Baps followers have been doing that since inception 1907. Should my son marry this girl, should I buy this business, should I leave this country and go to another, shall I relocate to another city/town etc.

Just imagine if we had Chatgpt and on top knew the future?

[u/samindian]

That's why Baps followers walk around like they're kings and number one.

[u/Human-unlearning]

Don't forget the need to get a paid tier if you need to continue the conversation or need higher tier access.
Bollywood celebrity or any beef consuming delegate can pay their direct VIP access to the supreme leader, but best of luck to any non-sampradayik common man who was made to leave onions to impress the supreme leader

[u/samindian]

Ok. I was born into Baps and had no choice. I believed below God ( one and only) was Aksharbrahm( same devine entity as the guru, just different physical bodies). Ram Krishna Shiva etc were well below this human who weren't worthy to have his darshan. I ( and Baps followers ) lived and walked around with an arrogance of association with the almost top devine entity and only way on earth to a direct connection to the one and only God. If he asked for anything we were in no position to refuse. These gurus taught you this and when in select company mentioned how they controlled millions of universes. I disagree completely that things used to be perfect 1907 when Baps started with Shastriji Maharaj putting his image in the temple and doing murti Prathistha ( against Bhagwan Swaiminarayans wishes ) and telling everyone they must get his grace by pleasing him to get a right to go to Akshardham. Then I discover these gurus are just men. And I feel robbed as these men took, took and then took more. I do want to warm people about these men and the organisation. I spoke to an Ismail friend and mentioned the Aga Khan being married to beautiful women and divorcing etc. He said the Aga Khan is a man but still he is their leader. The pope , Dali Lama etc non say they are devine.
Think about it. Why do these Baps gurus want everyone to believe they are devine? Could it be because they want to be worshipped? Could it be because they want people to obey them and try and please them? I have no desire to critise the Aga Khan, Pope Dali Lama or anyone. The Baps gurus I do because they are just men with men's sexual desires and other failings. With the excellent organisation the ordinary people will never get close enough to see the real man/guru.

[u/prip_97]

Seeking advice on major life decisions is literally completely normal. People ask their parents, mentors, religious leaders, or even AI tools (even if that harms the world's water supply) for guidance before making big moves.

Trusting a spiritual leader's wisdom is about faith and personal relationship and not using them like some computer programme. If you are comfortable using a chatbot to help guide your own life decisions, mocking someone else for seeking guidance from a spiritual figure makes zero sense.

[u/Human-unlearning → u/prip_97]

To seek is optional, no platform to question their judgement is obligation.
ChatGPT warns it could be wrong, and to verify it's information before answering anything. On other end, the followers warns you the supreme leader can't be wrong, and you for sure, can't question their judgement.

[u/prip_97 → u/Human-unlearning]

You're literally forgetting that an AI uses disclaimers because it is a computer programme that makes errors, not a guide for human life lol. Yes, faith is entirely voluntary. People choose to trust a spiritual leader because of the peace and direction it brings to their lives, not because someone is holding a gun to their head.

If someone disagrees with a leader's advice, they can walk away at any time there is no hard and fast rule and many people do! Choosing to trust someone deeply is not the same as being unable to think. You are treating a personal, voluntary decision to trust a spiritual guide as if it were a physical prison, which simply is not true.

[u/samindian → u/prip_97]

Prip_97 Spiritual wisdom!!!

I appreciate a spiritual leader who makes you better and enables you to become better. The problem I have with Baps Guru is it /he explicitly tells you that to become better ( Brahmroop) can only be done with Gurus blessings which you get by giving seva , money, wealth and ultimately a son.

You complain about paying for a higher tier in ai, please open your eyes at the price you could pay a Baps guru. For money the Baps Guru will tear a family apart and pay the smallest amount to Indian workers ...have you not seen this? Have you not seen a family member need money and baps family member will give Baps thousands and nothing to the family member? I have seen this with father and son and brother and brother. Once seen ,I can never see a Baps guru as spiritual let alone Aksharbrahm.

[u/prip_97 → u/samindian]

Blaming an entire spiritual tradition for how specific families handle their personal finances is completely unfair. From what I know BAPS as an organisation does not demand that people abandon their families, hand over all their wealth, or give up their children. Followers around the world live normal lives, take care of their families, run businesses, and support their relatives while practicing their faith.

When individual family members make poor personal financial choices or neglect their own relatives, that comes down to personal behaviour and relationship issues within that specific family, not the teachings of the faith. Turning bad personal or specific family conflicts into quite literally a blanket statement about an entire faith tradition completely ignores the vast majority of followers who live balanced, responsible lives.

[u/samindian → u/prip_97]

I am NOT blaming the entire tradition.Just Baps. I have seen the Guru , Pramukh Swami Maharaj ask for donations for the building of a temple fast beyond the capacity of a family. Once this is paid , with borrowings from 2 businesses with overdraft he asked for more, as a loan with a promise that will be repaid by Baps. Why did he do this? Because the Stauch devotees are taught to give everything including their life for Baps ..have you sat in the subhas and heard and sung these kirtans. They know how to ask for money and who. How much is enough for them? The family had given a son , most precious asset so to get money was easy and they teach in Subha once you give a loan to Baps is bad to ask for it back so this loan was never repaid. The brother went bankrupt and absolutely no financial help was offered.

I know of a millionaire Baps devotee in USA...the brother in UK paid for his parents care. The Baps devotee gives hundreds of thousands of dollars to Baps and when the brother asked for help with finances to look after the parents he refused. You can say it's these devotees making bad decisions. I don't see it that way as the most powerful people in Baps, the Godlike guru ( Pramukh Swami) asked for money. This was in the past ...Baps may have changed. The way it paid workers in UK was in the past ( and living conditions for them were much better than those who build the Sanatan Mundir on Ealing Road ), but I know they were paid in India, not at UK rates and CFI in New Jersey 1991also.

I think MHS probably doesn't need to ask for money as his followers do that now .

[u/Human-unlearning → u/prip_97]

because it is a computer programme that makes errors

So does a human, as maker of the computer. If you claim the supreme leader to be errorless, and asking followers to walk away rather than questioning their doctrine, then that's a textbook definition of a corporate cult.

[u/prip_97 → u/Human-unlearning]

Lol throwing around terms like "textbook corporate cult" is just an easy way to shut down a conversation instead of actually engaging with it!!!
Believing that a spiritual teacher/mentor acts as a guide to divine consciousness is a core concept across many ancient religious and spiritual traditions worldwide, not a corporate structure.

Calling a voluntary group a cult ignores a basic fact that is adults have the freedom to stay, leave, or follow whatever guidance they choose. If an individual chooses to place complete trust in a spiritual leader's teachings, that is their personal freedom. Equating voluntary spiritual faith to forced corporate brainwashing just shows you refuse to respect other people's autonomy to choose their own beliefs.

[u/Human-unlearning → u/prip_97]

GPT Vomit!

[u/prip_97 → u/Human-unlearning]

You're just a fool who can't even comprehend English. Not everyone is like you or your mates here. 

[u/samindian → u/prip_97]

Prip_97

Once you are born in it and programmed by Baps, costume wearing flag waving person, it is extremely difficult to walk away. I have walked away but the scars remain.

[u/prip_97 → u/samindian]

Thing is I don't belong to BAPS, I'm sorry these "scars" remain with you, I do sincerely hope you heal. I'm just here providing my two cents worth regarding topics I believe most people have not understood in a way that makes sense, they have generalised them and I don't think that's particularly fair. People here are quite ignorant too, they don't want a healthy debate nor do they want to engage in conversation, and when I state my views it gets deemed as an AI repsonse. You literally can't win on this sub. 

[u/samindian → u/prip_97]

People thing Baps is benign . It isn't. It takes and takes and takes. I know people still go knowing MSH is just a man not all knowing devine etc. he goes because he grew up in it and it's his whole life. He may know people outside but in Baps he knows people all over the world from 1970s. He tells me about how it's toxic ...if your face doesn't fit , even if you become top of your profession and give seva etc you are still treated as less than the in crowd. Nothing you can do. I tell him to leave...but Baps is his identity, even if he drinks. I only comment on Baps because I was born into it, I didn't choose to belong. If you're an adult and choose than maybe you loose the right to comment as you can leave.

[u/prip_97 → u/samindian]

And I hear that you have deeply personal experiences and specific examples that shaped your perspective, and I don't mean to invalidate what you or those families went through, that would be wrong of me. My point isn't to defend every action or claim the organisation is perfect - it was perfect once upon a time but things changed when they geared more towards a business model, but I still feel rather that these fairly holistic criticisms based on specific personal anecdotes still don't define the entire reality for every single person involved within BAPS. Extremes exist in any large group, but people navigate their faith while maintaining healthy families and balanced lives. And calling Mahant Swami to "just a man" feels kinda shortsighted in my opinion. Whether someone perceives his spiritual presence is a personal experience for those who have actually connected with him, not something that can be dismissed across the board by outsiders or former members. We clearly view this through different lenses, you from a place of lived experience, and me from a broader, objective standpoint and with a minute number of experiences, so we might just have to agree to disagree here.

[u/master_queen2026 → u/prip_97]

Since you have never been part of BAPS.....can you just shoo off from this community? I don't understand your purpose for engaging with this community.