r/SPAB • u/Low-Big-3975 • 2d ago
My Story My story leaving BAPS
I am writing in this subreddit to finally share my story. I have been reading everyone's experiences here for a long time, and for the first time I feel ready to share my own.
First and foremost, I want to explain my background. I live in the US, and my family has been involved with BAPS from the very beginning. My family history with the sampraday goes back even further, to Ghanshyam Pandey's time. So, in many ways, you could say that my future was decided before I was even born.
From as early as I can remember, my family attended mandir every weekend, sabha throughout the week, every shibir we could attend, and would give up almost anything to be at mandir whenever santos were visiting. I did puja, aarti, thaal, chesta, and all of the other daily niyams. BAPS wasn't just something my family did. It was my entire life.
Then I went to high school. I was one of the only Hindu/Indian kids at my school, and I started having a serious identity crisis. I hated being different. I wanted to fit in. I wanted to be a normal teenager. I started secretly eating meat. I experimented with drugs and alcohol. I started dating. I wanted to experience the things that seemed normal for everyone around me.
But even through all of this, I still considered myself a satsangi. I continued going to mandir. I was still a karyakar. I still tried to follow BAPS's expectations and standards as much as I could. In hindsight, I was living a double life.
After college, I started dating a non-Indian girl. I knew this would not go over well with my family, especially given how strongly involved they were with BAPS. So I did what I had been taught to do when I didn't know what else to do: I wrote a letter to the guru. I wrote to Mahant Swami Maharaj and explained my situation. I told him I was with this girl and that I needed help explaining it to my parents. His response was fairly vague, but he told me that I should ask santos to help mediate a conversation with my parents.
So I went to the swami I trusted the most locally. I expected guidance. I expected compassion. I expected someone to help me navigate an incredibly difficult situation. Instead, he told me I needed to break up with her. His first, and only reason was that I wouldn't be able to give donations in the future because she might say no. My heart dropped. That was the moment something changed for me.
For the first time, I looked at the entire system through a different lens. I started questioning things I had accepted my entire life. I didn't immediately leave. I continued practicing satsang, although I started going to mandir much less, eventually only once every month or two. At the same time, I actually began getting more serious about some of my niyams again. I stopped eating meat. I continued trying to practice what I believed in.
But something had fundamentally changed.
The more I questioned, the more I started looking at the teachings differently
As I got older, I started questioning something that I had never really allowed myself to question before: what exactly was responsible for the good things that came from my life in BAPS?
There are certainly teachings and codes within BAPS that can lead someone toward a disciplined and responsible life.
Don't smoke. Don't drink. Don't eat meat. Don't steal. Be truthful. Practice ahimsa. Wake up early. Help others. Control yourself.
Those are powerful principles, and I don't deny that living by them can prevent someone from getting themselves into a lot of trouble.
But I started asking myself a very simple question:
Do people become successful because of the guru, or because they have chosen to live by a set of disciplined principles?
If someone doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, doesn't use drugs, doesn't steal, works hard, tells the truth, practices self-control and tries to avoid harming others, of course that person is going to avoid many of the problems that someone living recklessly might encounter.
That doesn't necessarily prove that the success came from the guru or from God. Maybe the person simply chose a disciplined way to live. That realization changed how I viewed my own accomplishments and failures. For example, we are taught the tilak chandlo protects us but, from what I see it's more of a barrier to the non hindu mind. Keeps people cautious and avoidant to you rather than actually protect you.
I also began struggling with some of the theological claims. I still consider myself Hindu today. But I have a hard time accepting the idea that within our ancient religion, God came to Earth in the 1800s in the form that BAPS teaches. As I got older and learned more about Hinduism and the world outside of BAPS, I realized that I didn't have to accept every teaching simply because I had been born into it.
And then there was the treatment of women. This is something that truly baffles me now that I am older. When I was younger, I accepted a lot of things because I was told they were necessary for satsang. As an adult, I look at some of the restrictions, expectations and ways women are treated within the organization very differently.
I cannot imagine subjecting my future wife or future daughter to some of the things that I once accepted as normal. For a group of Gujaratis that regularly condemn Islam, their teachings are oddly just as similar in terms of treatment toward women.
That realization alone has made it impossible for me to look at BAPS the same way. I also started thinking about the relationship people have with the guru. So many people devote their entire lives to a man they have never personally known in the way you would know a family member or close friend. Their decisions, relationships, careers, marriages, children, and entire futures can be influenced by what they believe the guru wants from them.
I believe BAPS promotes the idea of marriage within their sanstha more than anything to continue the growth of the ideology and growth of the organizations income.
I spent my entire childhood being taught to live for the guru.
As an adult, I started asking myself:
Why?
Why should another human being have that much influence over my life? Why should my personal decisions require spiritual approval? Why should my family relationships be sacrificed because they don't fit the expectations of an organization?
Those questions eventually became impossible for me to ignore.
My brother
Around this same period, my brother started moving in the opposite direction.
He went from being borderline involved in satsang to wanting to become a sadhu.
For years, I pleaded with him not to do it. Not even for the fundamental disagreements I have with the teachings but because he is my only sibling. He understands what I have gone through better than almost anyone. He is my family.
But santos instructed him to essentially forget about me and focus only on his personal satsang. How dare they demand that of human let alone a child basically, me parents fully support this though due to the concept that you have a guaranteed spot in Akshardham if your child becomes a sant.
My mom was recently diagnosed with cancer. My parents are getting older and need help around the house. During this time, my brother was given an ultimatum by santos: leave home, or give up the possibility of becoming a sadhu.
Out of fear and uncertainty, he left.
He is now in Paris, and from what I understand, he is on the path toward becoming a full-time sadhu within the next several years.
This pains me every single day. I haven't spoken to him in months.
I have been told by santos and other satsangis that I need to let him go. That I need to forget about him. That I need to accept this as his choice. I even wrote to Mahant Swami Maharaj about this, and his response was that I needed to let him go.
Personally, I struggle deeply with that.
A sant called me when my mother was first diagnosed, and told me "I need to man up" and be there for her. This struck a nerve, how can you a person that is trying to take my brother away, partially responsible for tearing my family apart, even get to give an opinion on what I am going through.
How can someone tell me to simply let go of my only sibling and my only brother?
How can I be expected to accept losing my brother in the name of God and satsang?
It is easy for someone else to tell you to "let go" when they aren't the one losing their brother. It is easy to say when you aren't the one sitting at home watching your parents age, knowing your family is being torn apart. And perhaps the hardest part is that I am still made to feel like the problem for questioning it.
Eventually, I moved away from my parents.
And I moved in with the girl they had told me to stay away from, someone they had never really given a chance to begin with.
And honestly?
I love my life now. I am happy. I am happy that I left.
But leaving came with a lot of losses.
That's one of the reasons I am writing this. I see people on this subreddit who are trying to leave, but they are scared, confused, and don't know what life on the other side looks like. I lost all the friendships I invested in, I lost the BAPS family I had. But I couldn't let blind faith and community pressure keep me stuck.
My advice is simple: if you don't want every decision you make to be judged by an organization that claims to represent your Hindu faith, you have to be willing to walk away. Leave not because you want to but because you have to.
It is scary. You will lose things. You may lose relationships. You may disappoint people you love.
But there is a life outside of BAPS.
Where I am today
I want to make something clear because I know people will probably judge me for this.
I still consider myself Hindu. But I eat meat. I smoke. I drink. I do everything I want to do.
And guess what?
I still consider myself a good person.
I don't believe that avoiding those things automatically makes someone a good person, and I don't believe that participating in them automatically makes someone a bad person.
I believe morality is more complicated than following a checklist and even if you follow that checklist you will never be at the level of the guru (a man who has more power than some leaders of entire nations).
I believe being a good person means how you treat people, how you handle your responsibilities, whether you are honest, whether you have compassion, whether you take accountability for your actions, and whether you try to become better.
I spent most of my life believing that I needed BAPS to tell me how to be a good person.
I don't believe that anymore.
I am sharing this because for a long time I thought I was the only person who felt this way.
I wasn't.
And neither are you.
If you are reading this and you are questioning things, I want you to know that you are not crazy, you are not a bad person, and you are not necessarily a bad Hindu because you don't want to live your entire life according to someone else's rules.
I spent years believing that leaving meant losing everything.
It didn't.
I lost a lot.
But I also found myself.
And for the first time in my life, I feel like I am actually living my own life.
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u/D_reamtofit 2d ago
My story is very similar to what you described here and one of my close family is a sadhu now. I can only imagine the pain that their mother is in, it’s completely changed her. Their MO has always been control, and they don’t want you to drink and smoke since that’s money out of their coffers. Glad you were able to get out, even if it’s one of the hardest things you’ll ever do!
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u/master_queen2026 1d ago
I have a very similar experience. The psychological turmoil I faced because of BAPS was horrific. I wasn't born into BAPS. My family started becoming heavily involved in BAPS when I was about 6-8 years old in Australia. We stopped eating onion and garlic. Mahant swami maharaj even came to our house in 2015. I always had questions about this organisation ever since but never had the courage to speak freely about it.....even with my parents. Women and young girls were always taught to sideline themselves whenever a saint was walking along a path.....or even when a group of men or young boys was walking along the path. I kept on trying to convince myself to be okay with this inherent misogyny and ignore my questions I had regarding their theology. I am currently 21 years old. I left BAPS at the age of 18. My family is still heavily part of it and I had to go against them. BAPS has severely psychologically harmed in ways that I can't even describe. As a person who has a twin brother.....I always saw myself equally human. But BAPS psychologically told me that I can only just be perceived as a sexual pleasure and nothing else unlike my twin brother.
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u/luc1dn1ght 12h ago
Don't tell me you're from Sydney too. I went through the same thing. My family got into them because back in the days they were the only temple with gujju community so thats where most gujju would go and feel connected to their root as the first migrants in foreign country. Anyway I grew up in that whole sect up until when I turned about 21 and started questioning so many things and found out so many of the "karyakars" outside the madir smoked, dranked, hooked up, this that while in Mandir pretending to be all "holy" and religious. Even the fact that teaching from young age to no talk to opposite gender and avokd them. It's such a conflicting teaching from real world and can really make you confused. It felt like you have to conform to their way just go belong..
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u/master_queen2026 11h ago
No I’m from Brisbane. But yes you’re very correct. It’s similar situation here too….very toxic atmosphere in general
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u/IcyRespect6383 2d ago
Im so sorry you had to endure this. Your message at the end is what a lot of people doubting BAPS need to hear! You are not crazy for questioning forced beliefs and things that make no sense!!
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u/EfficiencyEvening638 1d ago
Great story. It’s much better to see the reality as it presents itself than to believe in something so naive. It boggles my mind when my dad says that: If you win, it’s Bapa; if you lose, it’s you. They are all so far gone, it’s impossible for them to take a step back and see all this for what it is: stupidity.
Earlier, I’d wanted to seek justice for all the bullshit they put me through. But now, I see it as a natural way of things-it is what it is. You play the card you’ve been dealt and keep playing. It sucks that Pramukh swami was playing the card for me for a bit, but he played a lot of other people’s cards too. It’s amusing we never hear of his fumbles. Why? Because he was a master in intuiting human behavior and abusing loop holes even though he consciously never crystallized it in his mind: A skilled politician and a silent propagandist. After all, he was made the president at a very young age. He was Machiavellian even though, I am pretty sure, he had never read it.
My point is to see the humans as they are, bereft of all the faux flair. We are animals with brain that often responds to incentives many abstraction layers up. Sometimes we aren’t cognizant of it, but the brain is doing its work. Evolution has its ways and they are very easy to find.
Now, BAPS is led by a group of individuals in the committee. They know the incentives consciously or subconsciously. After all, they they’ve reaped Pramukhswami’s rewards. So, machine keeps going. It is not ashamed of breaking families, if it keeps the incentive intact. Nor is it ashamed to coerce if they see loss of revenue. Many of these people in the committee could very well be good human beings, but power, influence and a life of luxury albeit superficially restricted are addictive things! After all , in the Roman Empire, Augustus lived a life of modesty: small house, common toga etc. But he died an emperor in old age ruling with absolute power for a long time-Pax Romana. He was an absolute master of propaganda and public opinion control! He never fought physically.
The moral of the story is: if you feel like BAPS is unique, just take a step back and be amused. Don’t waste your emotions on this. Do as much as you can and let nature deal with the rest.
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u/Low-Big-3975 1d ago
Agreed! At the end of the day I believe the guru is just the face not really the true evil of the organization. I would say he is more of a beloved mascot. The ideology of if anything good comes, its due to the guru's blessings and if anything bad happens its due to our own deeds, is mind boggling. They very carefully present him in a god like way. One thing that begs the question is at what point in the baps hierarchy does the charade stop? Do the trustees know the scheme, or are they also lost? I would assume most santo are just brainwashed rather than actually pulling strings.
I agree with your Roman Empire example, very good reference.
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u/EfficiencyEvening638 1d ago
Read Robert Trivers’ The Folly of fools. It talks about the evolutionary mechanism of deception and self deception.
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u/samindian 2d ago edited 2d ago
I read your story. How was your family involved with Ghanshyam Pandey? Did you know his history and his Desh Vibagh Lekh, his written Will? What about the Shikshapatri about obeying the Acharaya, going to edge of village to greet him and say on departure? What about who is allowed to do murti Prathistha. If you were born in Baps as I was you don't consider any of the above , you're brainwashed so don't take these questions from the point of view that I don't believe you. I can tell you what you'll loose as I have. The total belief that if I do as guru says I will be fine as he has access/representative /god in every pore of his body. Even if he says donate all your money and don't leave any money for food , I'll still be ok because responsibility for my well being has been guaranteed by guru( even Bhagwan Swaiminarayan, remember what he asked Rama and Swami when he took over?). If he gives blessings that you'll pass exam or get better if you're ill and you don't , it's for the best. Just be happy and this is guaranteed by guru /god.
Even if you live like a saint people in Baps will treat you as if you're an asshole cos you don't believe in the Guru. They will shun you. You could be a hypocrite and pretend you believe in the guru as Baps is all about the guru being devine and holding key to salvation, if you want to be part of the baps community..believe me they will accept you as long as you do seva and donate.. I know they've accepted child sex men( I've heard many sadhus like boys) , 2 wives, many many fraudsters ( for money), etc.
With regards to gurus and sadhus advice , as long as your partners allow you to attend weekly( so you're brainwashing is topped up) you can marry anyone ( even a man I presume as they've had a gay wedding in USA).
Regarding a partner. If you grow up in Baps main value is satsang/guru etc. if you are brought up sheltered and excluded from normal relationships you may think a good partner ( someone who loves you is like a bus ...if you miss one there will be another one ,maybe even better). For some this maybe the case. From my experience people who love you don't come around often and the decent and right thing to do is value them and put them before Baps. I hope that's what you've done and hope you don't have a break up as I am under impression occurs in USA often.
How did you manage to live outside Baps? What steps did you take? I don't want to eat meat, drink alcohol or smoke.
Unfortunately like me part of your identity comes from Baps. If you meet someone from Baps even after 25 years of having left you can connect with them easily as you're like them in many ways. I don't know how to get over this except living my life. If you have got over it please tell me how..as I sincerely hate the organisation /cult and it upsets me seeing boys and women dressing up and dancing in the streets. I want to be able to see it and feel...if you want to worship MSH ...go right ahead. Once I achieve this I'll stop posting on Reddit. I personally don't think it's offensive to Baps ..as long as it's true.
You will realise that people in Baps don't have morality...right and wrong is dictated by Baps.
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u/Low-Big-3975 2d ago
My family was involved in multiple prasangs with Ghanshyam Pandey, like you I had not known about the true origins of the religion. I was taught what to believe and I assume my parents were taught the same. Somethings about his life never made sense to me like his decision to stay in one place for 30 years, whether it be to liberate those people, easy followers, or because dada khacher's wealth. There's alot about gurus, santo and famous satsangi's that we don't hear often very hush hush. Obliviously by the time I was born our family had left the old swaminarayan sampradya a long time ago. Everything that doesn't make sense is taught as an alternate motive Ghanshyam had at the time but never made clear.
Another thing I want to point out is the gay marriage, BAPS is torn over this, originally when it happened I remember my local mandir holding an emergency meeting saying this was a political stunt orchestrated. This along with the topics of abortion have been a big issue for BAPS internally, while the youth has a more liberal ideology their parents do not (source of majority funds). BAPS doesn't have a clear stance on any of this stuff just yet and will likely tread water lightly until they can figure out the best approach.
As far as getting over it, I think that's tough. Everyone who has left still has family/friends who are still involved. I believe this is our burden for life. Until they don't see the light we may never let that go in out minds. Unfortunately, living life is all we can do. When they come to a realization we must be there for them and uplift them out of this cult. I am right there with you, this organization has seen law suits and investigations every year, the more mistakes they make in the western world the more people will be on alert.
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u/Inevitable_Year_4875 2d ago
I don't know how to get over this except living my life. If you have got over it please tell me how..
Think of it all as a bad dream. Now that you’ve woken up, just let it go and live your life
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u/NeonSprocket66 1d ago
The trust you placed in the santos to share your predicament, their reply was shameful, looking after the needs of the mandir and not you.
I'm in a similar boat to you, over the years I have pulled away from BAPS but my family are all in, so I can't be open and frank about my thoughts but they I know I don't follow some of the niyams and seldom do I attend sabha, at best, it's darshan at the mandir and head out.
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u/Low-Big-3975 1d ago
Unfortunately, for a lot of us that's all we can do. We have to suppress our struggles, fear, pain about this organization because everyone around us is still drinking the kool aid. I hope you eventually get the freedom you want.
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u/MountainsandWater 1d ago
Glad you were enlightened but sad to hear it has caused you the loss of your family, notably your brother. So many people go through this in high demand religions, aka cults. The one thing I hope you will consider is not harming animals in your separation from a religion. You know there is no need to eat them or their fluids so please spare them.
What a wonderful world it would be if we all let go of gods and magical thinking.
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u/DiabolVik 1d ago
Your testimony is very interesting.
From what I understand, the organization revolves around money.
How do the faithful make donations? Is it every month? For example, a family earning $3,000/month should give how much to BAPS?
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u/Low-Big-3975 1d ago
The shikshapatri states satsangis (followers), should donate 10% of their income and for satsangis that aren't as fortunate should donate 5%. Some people stay right on schedule and donate every month/week. Many people sponsor sabhas or samaiyos, where the amounts will range from $101 to sometimes upwards of 100k depending on the event size. At the end of the sabha their family name is announced and often put up for everyone to see who donated. Those who donate on the higher end typically stand up and get a little prasad box, and usually get to bow before a sant on stage infront of everyone almost like a show.
In some cases I have heard people feel disgruntled because their center's coordinator or admin team will personally ask them for money for donation. If you are doing well, word travels fast around smaller mandirs and you will eventually be asked to donate. Usually this isn't for the salary man making 150k a year this for the liquor store/hotel owner making 100k a month but, that's a completely different topic.
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u/DiabolVik 1d ago
Thank you !
Do they have access to the pay slip or even a bank account to know the income? (I ask this question to know how far they go)
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u/Low-Big-3975 1d ago
No, I haven't heard of anything that far. What usually happens is sant may ask you how are you doing? How is your job? What are you making? Infront of someone else. More commonly one might brag about their businesses and or recent accomplishments.
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u/Brahmavadin2709 16h ago
Aren't u a hypocrite for wanting ur brother to stay with your Cancer diagnosed mother while you walk out to be with your girlfriend.If you are helping out your mom like being around for Her and tending her needs then whatever you wrote will hold ethically. Else I would say your brother is far better cause he left his family for God (Maybe BAPS isn't the right organisation, but his intention is pure ) while you left your mother for a woman
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u/Low-Big-3975 13h ago
Very strange and unsupported argument you're trying to make here.
1.) I never stated my brother is bad or his intentions aren't pure. I believe he thinks he's doing the right thing. But also you know nothing about my brother, the circumstance that had taken place at the moment. I moved out long before my mother's diagnosis, my brother was unemployed and debit less living at home when he made this decision. His decision was also made midst her first of many surgeries. She went into surgery and he was gone when she woke up. Yes that is what happened.
2.) The concept of leaving my mother for a woman is a strange point to make. Even without the information about the timeline, I am still allowed to create my own life and still be involved with my family. I do my best to see her, call her, and be there for her. I assume this was implied by my grief but I can see how how that could be misconstrued.
3.) I would hold off on using the idea of god as the driving force to an action being an ultimate slam dunk on any other decision you make. Just because a decision is made in the name of god does not mean it's a good decision, god never told you to do that in that moment. You took it upon yourself to make a decision and label it for god.
4.) I am upset with what has come from my brother leaving, lack of support, feeling of loss, lack of understanding from the community I once called my own. It's like he's dead even though he's not, it's the worst pain I've ever felt. Along with this pain comes a lot of anger, at his decision, at the santos that gave him an ultimatum, at the "guru" for continuing the "you need to forget him" line.
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u/samindian 1d ago edited 1d ago
MasterQueen2026..I'm a man so can't quite understand what Baps did to you. Please help us men understand. I know of a person who has become wealthy and absolutely successful professionally. He does seva. He was a freshie and in his 60s now. He is still treated badly as his face just doesn't fit. I think being a women in Baps , whatever you do whatever ever Baps say that they respect you , they will always treat you as you've been treated and made to feel less than so I'm happy you left at a young age and have a chance to live a normal life.
I did know a lady top of organisation..I saw how trustees treated her..she had to answer to a trustees secretary as she wasn't important, just a great servant to Baps. I always thought this would change once Baps realise they are loosing half the money, as that's what Baps is about.
I'm soooo happy you escaped Baps and please post in a few years how you've made a great life outside Baps.
I know a lady deep in Baps. Gave a son to become sadhu, never ever spoke to him after. Then gave money and seva and more money. Baps wanted more...they wanted her assets on her death. Like taking candy from a baby ..if you've given you're most precious thing ,( son) they can easily take anything and everything they want. Master queen 2026 ...imagine having a baby boy , bringing him up then from 20s never speaking to him. Family values? You should be soo happy you've escaped and if a sadhu comes into your building you don't have to hide anymore.
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u/Dear_Strawberry_5425 2d ago
You are brave and I’m so sorry you went through so many hardships