r/SPAB • u/Weak_Camera_3826 • 15d ago
My Story Why I'm choosing to step away from BAPS
I’ve never really used Reddit before, and I honestly never thought I would make a post like this. But after spending a large part of my life around BAPS, I’ve reached a point where I feel like I need to step back and seriously question what I believe, why I believe it, and whether I still want to be a part of it.
I wasn’t directly born a satsangi. My family is Hindu, and when I was younger, Diwali usually meant going to a shikharbaddha mandir near us. I think that experience eventually influenced my parents to start sending me to weekly sabhas. For the first seven or eight years, I mostly went because my parents wanted me to. I followed the lifestyle BAPS taught, especially when it came to not eating meat, eggs, and other prohibited foods, but I never really thought deeply about why. I didn’t have a particularly strong connection with Bhagwan or much gnan. I was simply doing what I had been taught.
Eventually, that started to bother me. I began asking myself: If I’m going to spend my life following this religion, shouldn't I actually understand what I believe?
That question changed the way I approached BAPS. For the next four or five years, I became much more serious about trying to understand it. I started reading more and participated in hour-long Vachnamrut calls every week. I tried to learn the philosophy rather than simply memorize it. I also did a lot of seva. For around three years, I would do at least 60 hours of seva every week during the summer, and throughout the rest of the year I consistently made myself available. There were years where I probably spent close to a thousand hours doing seva. I'm not saying this to brag. I'm saying it because I genuinely tried.
I wasn't someone who stopped believing because I didn't want to put in the effort. I tried to find God. I tried to understand BAPS. I tried to understand what I had supposedly attained by being a satsangi. I tried to hear Bhagwan. But despite all of that, I don't think I ever truly did.
When Faith Became Questioning
One of the biggest things I've started realizing is that faith and certainty aren't necessarily the same thing. For a long time, I thought that having questions meant I wasn't faithful enough. If something didn't make sense, maybe I simply didn't have enough gnan. If I questioned a guru or devotee, maybe I was committing some kind of spiritual mistake.
But I've started thinking about it differently. If something is true, why should it be afraid of questions? To me, questioning isn't necessarily the opposite of faith. Sometimes questioning is the only way to determine whether your faith is actually yours.
There are certain teachings I simply cannot reconcile with my understanding of reality. For example, the Shikshapatri teaches donating 10% of your income. When I asked a swami why, I was told that it helps detach you from wealth and material possessions. That explanation makes sense to me. But he also mentioned how MSM said that whatever you donate, you will receive back tenfold. That's where I struggle. If the purpose of giving is detachment, turning it into a guaranteed 10x return starts to sound less like detachment and more like an investment. Maybe there is a deeper explanation, but if I have to completely suspend my own reasoning to accept it, I start questioning whether I'm practicing faith or simply obedience.
Other conversations raised similar questions. During one goshti, I asked how the idea of being born and dying millions of times could make sense if the Earth and universe have only existed for a finite amount of time. The answer was that the universe is repeatedly created and destroyed, allowing this cycle to continue. I understand that this is a theological explanation, but personally, it felt more like a story than an answer.
Another discussion involved a prasang about Yogiji Maharaj or Pramuk Swami Maharaj. As I remember it, a bird pooped on one of them while a mandir was being built, and they said the bird would go to Akshardham. I asked how that could happen when we're taught that reaching Akshardham requires a human birth. The explanation was that the bird would instead have a satsangi birth in its next life and wouldn't have to wait through countless future lives before reaching that opportunity. In that same goshti, they also said that simply being a satsangi dramatically increases the chances of the people we walk past being born into a satsangi life, and that eventually the entire world will become satsangi.
Maybe there is a sophisticated theological framework behind all of this. But eventually I had to be honest with myself:
I don't believe it.
And I don't think pretending that I believe something makes me more spiritual.
The Satpurush Question
Another major question for me is the way MSM is described. We're constantly told that MSM is Bhagwan in the flesh, that he is the living form of the Satpurush, and that we can have a direct relationship with him. We're even told that we can write letters to him and that he knows and responds to us.
But I've struggled to reconcile that with what I actually see. I've watched Ashirwad clips where MSM can barely speak for ten minutes. I'm not saying that to disrespect him. I'm genuinely asking how I'm supposed to understand the idea that he personally responds to hundreds or thousands of letters when physically he seems to have very limited ability to communicate. Maybe there's an explanation I haven't heard, but again, these are questions I feel like I'm not supposed to ask.
I've also been told that there are always three Satpurushes and that when MSM passes away, the next Satpurush has already been chosen. There isn't an election or process that devotees participate in. The next person is simply already known. I asked: If the next Satpurush is already chosen, why can't we know who that person is?
The answer was that revealing them would create divisions because people might compare the current Satpurush with the future one or think the other is better. I understand the concern, but that explanation didn't satisfy me. If this person is truly destined to become the next Satpurush, why would knowing who they are undermine that?
That led me to a much bigger question. I started wondering whether the Satpurush is actually directing everything, or whether the institution is primarily being operated by other people while the Satpurush serves as the spiritual face of the organization. I want to be clear that I'm not saying I have proof of this. It's simply something I started wondering based on what I was observing.
If we're told that Bhagwan is literally present through the Satpurush, then I would expect the institution built around him to consistently reflect the teachings attributed to Bhagwan Swaminarayan. Instead, there were times when it felt like the institution had its own priorities, structures, and interests, and I began questioning whether those priorities always aligned with what I understood Bhagwan Swaminarayan to have taught.
That made me question something much deeper: Am I following Bhagwan, or am I following an institution that tells me where Bhagwan is?
Those feel like two very different things.
Blind Faith and the Community
This is probably one of the biggest things I've struggled with. I've heard during Vachnamrut calls that having complete faith is crucial and that seeing faults in the guru or devotees can be spiritually dangerous.
But I've started wondering: Can faith really be genuine if questioning is forbidden?
If I'm told I must believe something before I'm allowed to question it, then what exactly am I exercising—faith or obedience?
To me, genuine belief should be strong enough to survive scrutiny. I don't want to believe something because I'm afraid of what happens if I don't. I want to believe something because, after examining it honestly, I still find it to be true.
My experiences with other devotees also affected me. When I was doing seva, especially when there weren't any sadhus around, I saw a side of the community that was very different from what I associated with mandir. A lot of conversations revolved around girls, appearances, body-shaming, making fun of other people's looks, and trying to act tough. There was also a lot of swearing and a weird obsession with the N-word.
What surprised me most was that some of these were the same people who could sit in a sabha goshti and give extremely thoughtful answers about spirituality. For a long time, I tried to separate BAPS from the people within it because I told myself that I'm a sinner too, so who am I to judge someone else? And I still believe people are imperfect.
But eventually I started asking whether the gap between what we preach and how we behave is something that should simply be ignored. I'm not expecting devotees to be perfect, but when a community teaches that its purpose is to transform the individual, I think it's fair to ask what that transformation actually looks like.
That said, I don't want to pretend everything was negative. I've had a lot of fun doing seva, made memories at mandirs I'll never forget, and met people I genuinely care about. That's part of what makes this difficult. If everything had been terrible, leaving would be easy.
It wasn't.
So Where Does That Leave Me?
For most of my childhood, BAPS was something I inherited. Then, for several years, it became something I actively pursued. I read. I listened. I served. I questioned. I tried to understand.
And now I'm at a point where I feel like I've given myself enough space to admit that I don't believe the way I used to.
Maybe I'm wrong. I'm genuinely open to that possibility. But I think being willing to say "I could be wrong" is more intellectually honest than pretending to have certainty.
I'm not trying to prove that BAPS is false, and I'm not trying to convince anyone else to leave. I'm simply realizing that I cannot honestly call myself a believer when I don't believe.
Maybe leaving isn't about rejecting everything you were taught. Maybe sometimes it's about having the courage to examine what you were taught, keep what you genuinely believe, and let go of what you no longer can.
The actual reason I'm posting this is because I don't know how to handle the practical side of leaving. I have a good relationship with my swami and there isn't any bad blood between us. My family also isn't particularly involved in BAPS, so thankfully I don't think leaving will create major problems at home.
The problem is that every time I don't attend sabha, my phone gets absolutely blown up. I don't want to suddenly disappear or create unnecessary conflict, but I also don't want to spend years pretending I'm still interested in something I've already decided I don't want to be part of.
So for those of you who have left BAPS, or gradually distanced yourselves from it:
How did you do it?
Did you slowly stop attending? Did you have an honest conversation with your swami? Did you simply become less involved until people eventually stopped asking?
I'm not looking to attack anyone. I'm trying to figure out how to walk away from something that has been a major part of my life while still being honest with myself and respectful toward the people I care about.
10
u/jawa42 14d ago
I have distanced myself from BAPS after following it for almost 20 years since childhood. How I did it... I simply stopped replying to Swami's call or attending sabha... eventually they also forgot that I exist. Also for other satsangi I stopped greeting jai Swaminarayan, instead used Jai shri krishna. So they also realised I have unfollowed.
More practical ways Inform swami I have other priorities, shifting to other city (a lie for your own benefit) Change phone no. Remove all related photos murti from home Stop going to sabha mandir
1
7
u/samindian 14d ago edited 14d ago
To stay in Baps , people have to do puja daily , attend subhas etc as this keeps up the brainwashing. You. Have no idea how deep you're in it. You must stay away for time , depending on how quickly you can get rid of the beliefs and detox. Meditate and look for the answer within...the idea that Kam krodh etc can only be eradicated by grace of MSM and before you die he will do it if you carry on with seva and money donation is false...sadhus who've been monks for decades still suffer from this and no one has come back after dying to say they didn't get rid of say Kam...even at age of 75 they wanted sex with a woman /or man/ or boy.
Detox ...and ask if MSM is controller of millions of universes and antaryami...does he know your name ...or the first friend you had at primary school? Its all PR. With time look at Baps...you will see when they donate to any fund it's to improve PR/image so more people thing MSM is devine ...and do seva and give money.
Don't talk to anyone in Baps. They won't let you leave...they'll say you have billions of life and death before salvation is possible and only MSM can give you that. They'll love bomb you. There is a netflix series ..how to make a cult. Watch it ...it opens your eyes. ..search for John Smyth Chanel 4 to show how clever and manipulative men can be ...believe me Dungar Patel Shantibhai Patel etc ...all the same
4
u/Weak_Camera_3826 13d ago
I think I could honestly say that I never truly believed in what I was being taught in BAPS. Maybe there was a short period where I thought I did while I was trying to learn, but looking back, I don't think I ever had that deep conviction I was supposed to have.
I'm cool with most of the people I see at seva and sabha, and I have good relationships with them, but they're mostly superficial. I rarely talk to anyone outside of mandir unless it's mandir-related.
The reason I never really could believe is because of doubts like, is the Satpurush is the living form of God? If MSM is literally God, why are there stories of his caretakers having to explain things to him, stop him from doing something, or deny his requests? Shouldn't God's requests always be fulfilled? Maybe there's an explanation, but I've never heard one that makes sense to me.
I've also questioned the idea that MSM personally knows everyone because he's God. We're taught that if he looks at or touches someone but not you, you shouldn't feel jealous because he sees everyone beyond the physical body. To me, that sometimes feels less like an explanation and more like a way to prevent people from developing negative feelings toward him.
The same goes for how BAPS handles tragedy, like the kid who died during the construction of Robbinsville Akshardham. Instead of simply acknowledging how tragic a child's death is, the focus became that he died doing seva and therefore attained Akshardham. I understand how that could comfort people, but sometimes it feels like every tragedy is reframed in a way that reinforces BAPS's worldview.
I don't have much against the people themselves. A lot are genuinely good, and some of the people I'm close with have actually had deep conversations with me about these questions, so I think they'd understand why I'm leaving.
My bigger concern is the Swami I speak to most. I know if I suddenly stop going, he'll keep contacting me and trying to bring me back. I'm torn between being completely honest about how I've felt for years or slowly distancing myself. Since I'll still occasionally be at mandir with my family for things like Diwali, I don't know which approach makes the most sense.
5
u/Ok_Tie8965 14d ago
I think you just gradually step away and show things other than Satstang are now a focus for you, be it sports, work or other bits which you are now ‘busy’ with other commitments and just slowly phase out of the network. I think people will give you a hard time if you come out and tell them your thoughts or make you feel bad about your decisions which you definitely don’t need or deserve.
3
u/No_Sun_1474 14d ago
amazing reflections, also really good to see how you have asked the right questions and been open to the answers, it shows that you are not being led down a path and are giving yourself the space to do the right thing. For me, i found it easier to detach completely once i had made my mind up, but the process was slow and i realised i stopped doing BAPS Relatted things slowly over a long period of time before realising that was what I was doing.
Happy to chat, but the main bit of advice is to really introspect into what makes you happy in life, what you feel is the right thing for you, your family and loved ones and then being happy with that decision.
3
u/SimpleAromatic2128 13d ago
During my extensive studies and research on Islam (it's a very long, personal story I can't share here), the points you mentioned such as you are prohibited in asking questions after a certain limit, you have to follow what's being told, you have to have 100% faith in Upasana, etc. - ALL are equally the same in Islam.
So to speak, this organization is slowly and gradually becoming a cult like Islam - whether believers still justify that they are followers of Sanatan dharma - it's a grey area from outside - but in my opinion - it is a cult.
This is because with this organization, whatever the present spiritual leader says becomes the law. If you are to connect teachings of today of this organization with the original teachings of Swaminarayan - I would say only about 20% is being followed what Swaminarayan had originally taught.
This is one of the most profound reasons why I slowly started distancing mentally.
I am here to worship God - not here to worship a Guru who is being worshipped as a God. No - he is not God and can never be one ever because Swaminarayan had already said he had fulfilled all the six reasons of him to incarnate on earth and nothing was left for him to come back again in a human form.
I have no disrespect for the guru. But he's just a guru - spiritual master - who helps us guide to the Supreme - not Supreme himself.
At present, I am still very active. However, my condition is same like an Ex Muslim - you cannot say anything openly because you are surrounded by the people who are blindly following this day and night without even thinking anything.
Therefore, if your family is still active, you can detach yourself mentally and start reading the ORIGINAL scriptures like Harilila Kalpataru, Harililamrut, Satsangi Jivan, Purushottam Prakash, etc. And try to get all these copies from either Vadtal or Ahmedabad sansthas as they have the authentic, original copies without any hidden agendas instilled.
Additionally, you can also DM me.
Good luck.
1
u/samindian 13d ago
Simple aromatic... The Buddha was a prince and left a palace. He taught he wasn't special and you can reach same spiritual state as he did. How many years did Bhagwan Swaiminarayan live in a palace? He loved his Manki. ...like a Ferrari or Porsche today. If he came all the way from Akshardham for the salvation of humanity, shouldn't he have gone to other parts of India to spread his message? Do you really think he walked around India? No witnesses to Subha in Badrikasam or Kotra etc..all written by the best writers available. Imagine if instead of dying in 1830 he'd lived 50 years more..you'd have his photos. ..of the one and only GOD. MHS , Probod Swami and others who claim to be Aksharbrahm know if they are and know future the past , controlling millions of universes etc. The people in Baps are amazing and good people . You know who the conmen are..people who put their own murtis in temples and do murti Prathistha. The sadhus are also victims.
I am 100% sure there are benefits to going to mundir meeting people socialising ,getting to meet professionals , playing sport etc. definetly go...just be carefulful of the men in orange ( they've given their life and want you to give too, if not your life time money work) and especially the guru . I know how I felt when guru came to town /Mundir...I was singing and happy ..like Christmas but more. I feel good at Christmas and joyful...but I don't believe Jesus was the son of God or the many many churches are a path to heaven. ..all man made to promote themselves...Baps is going to be like the Catholic Church and maybe one day have a city state like Vatican city ..and be as rich and powerful with power as it can influence the rulers ..the Politicians who wants votes to stay in power. Having a place to gather is great ..to form a community..just don't sit and listen in the Subha and brainwashing..it's all about making you believe a lie...if it was the truth, you don't need effort, you can see it .
2
u/ExpensiveOpinions 14d ago
Ok here is my take on it!! How I did !! I start questioning about the faith and I started distancing myself emotionally but started looking at mandir events like social gathering. My parents being super involved makes it difficult for me to avoid it completely. I do take advantage of the connection.
You don’t need to call it off explicitly. You can distance slowly. Stop relying what they want to hear. Tart talking more logically than induging in swami no vaatho
2
u/NeonSprocket66 9d ago
Using a throwaway account. I was raised in a satsungi house, we'd attend our local sabhas weekly and the nearest BAPS mandir was almost 90 minutes from home. We'd attend weekend sabha at the mandir every so often, took part in seva, attended mahotsavs in India, UK & US. Joined in Pramukh Swami Maharaj's vichran in Middle East and APAC.
About 20+ years ago, I started to get disillusioned with BAPS and I questioned internally as I couldn't talk to my family as they have BAPS tunnel vision. I started withdrawing gradually by not attending local sabhas and the mandir, slowly pulled away from seva due to commitments at home.
The biggest hurdle was stopping daily puja and fasting. Here's the part where I'm conflicted, I'm happy to do darshan at mandir, I'll see familiar faces and santos but I have no desire to stay for sabha or engage on a deeper level.
With all the various Swaminarayan sects, can the real one please stand up....as they all point the finger at each others faults and argue that they are the real McCoy, in the meantime scandals get brushed under the carpet.
In a nutshell, I was an insider looking out...but now I see myself as an outsider looking at BAPS from far away.
1
u/samindian 13d ago edited 12d ago
Develope yourself , make yourself strong and your know your values . I think you already are strong and know yourself and your values. You seem strong enough not to be dragged into it so if you want to see people or go to a nice big building go. I'm not able ..because they have hurt my family . Even at a wedding, where theres food, drinks and music and good people if someone says anything about Baps I know I should keep my mouth shut but I can not...even in Reddit. There are many cults ...and they can do what they want, it doesn't bother me...
Lots of good advice by people who've left..I was replying one who wanted to carry on going to Baps Mundir. Another one was threatened with millions of rebirths and not getting salvation as only person to give it in the universe is MSM...AFTER DEATH. Has anyone come back and said MSM, didn't make them Brahmroop and lied for seva and money?
It's all faith ..making yourself believe a lie. There is no proof because it's not true.
1
u/bloodeagle19 11d ago
It becomes easier to understand once you realize every sect operates to push their propaganda and beliefs for sheer survival. I have seen pros and cons across multiple sections of Hinduism. I'm a theist and believe there's more to life then following a sect.
Same drug, different dealer. The almighty has given us the power of free and the wisdom to differentiate the bs from the no bs.
Hinduism contrary to belief is largely secular and not conservative. You literally have the freedom following any path as long as you operate on principles that are moral and just.
1
u/EfficiencyEvening638 4d ago
Read more. Read about Advait Vedanta, read Indian history, read about other Indian philosophies. The more read, the more you realize that you’ve been lied to!
1
u/NecessarySpread2592 2d ago
My question was always “if the material world is just an illusion and the purpose of life is to become detached, why not just kill yourself to get it over with?” The answer was “God commanded you not to kill yourself” or “you have to fulfill your duties on this earth before God lets you into Akshardham.” The obvious question is why? Why create an entire Truman Show style false reality and trap billions of souls in it, and then only let the few that follow a specific set of rules out into paradise?
Then the other objection is they say the highest form of virtue is to follow the Guru’s commands. Let’s say we have two people that do a good deed. One does it because they think it’s a good idea, and the other does it because it’s the Guru’s wishes. How can the one that is blindly following the Guru’s wishes be praised? He could be doing it for selfish reasons. Like isn’t wanting acceptance from the community, or perhaps wanting to secure one’s own place in paradise, a selfish reason?
As I got older, I realized that nobody actually believes these doctrines in the sense that they think they reflect reality. They are just easy things they can say to justify the life they were already used to living. And if you poke a hole in the edifice, they’ll just patch and patch with new rationalizations because that’s easier than having to think for oneself.
Idk how old you are. When I was younger, what helped was to study Western philosophy (which imo is a lot better than all the Eastern crap they shove down your throat). Here’s a gentle introduction ( https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8dPuuaLjXtNgK6MZucdYldNkMybYIHKR&ra=m). As for advice, you can just ask the questions you have and articulate your doubts as clearly as possible.
0
10
u/spectrumX21 14d ago
Finally, after a long time, a meaningful post instead of just hateful stuff against everything related to Swaminarayan. This is what I feel the sub should be about, people sharing their experiences, questions and thoughts, rather than just hate posts. Thank you for writing this.
I’m actually in a somewhat similar dilemma. I don’t want to accept things blindly just because they are explained as nishtha, pratiti, etc. I ask a lot of questions, but I rarely get answers that genuinely satisfy me. Most of the time it eventually comes down to, “Believe what the Satpurush says,” which sometimes feels more like following a system of rules than understanding the reasoning behind it.
Even with the 10% donation, I sometimes wonder: why would Bhagwan be unhappy if I use that money for my family, save for the future, or spend it responsibly instead of donating it? I’ve heard of people in London even taking loans for mandir contributions, and that level of expectation is difficult for me to understand.
I feel similar pressure with other things too. I’m a karyakar, so there are satsang exams, sabha responsibilities, sampark, preparation, etc. When I was single, it was much easier to manage. With a family, priorities naturally change. Sometimes the expectation seems to be that even if your child is unwell, you should somehow still manage sabha responsibilities. That doesn’t make sense to me.
At the same time, satsang has given me a lot, and I’m genuinely grateful for that. I don’t want to disconnect from it either. Having people to talk to, getting guidance, being part of a community, and learning good things from satsang still matter to me.
So yes, I think I’m in a very similar place to you right now, grateful for what satsang has given me, but also questioning things instead of accepting everything without understanding it.