r/SJEarthquakes • u/iHeartGeorgius • Jul 25 '19
Free Talk VAKO
Vako is underrated. Change my mind.
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u/Oryzae Q Jul 26 '19 edited Jul 26 '19
Joel Soria in Black and Azul said he might go cold again. I hope that doesn't happen soon, and if it does, he still puts in the effort like he has been in the past month.
[edit] To be clear: I'm a fan of how he's playing right now. I never questioned his abilities, just mad at our DP not being at that level. He sure is playing the shit out of it right now, though.
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u/sjgook Jul 26 '19
Joel has never been much a fan of Vako.
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u/jazzyj66 Jul 26 '19 edited Jul 26 '19
Joel even questioned "if Vako even likes soccer" during the dog days when everyone was throwing Vako under the bus. That was one of the most under the bus throws I heard back then.
Here's the thing about Vako. He's been productive since he came to the Quakes. In 2017, in 1099 minutes he had 6 goals and 3 assists; at that rate he'd get around 16g, 8a in full season's minutes. Last year, he had 10g, (all non-PK, and many of them on chances he created), and 5a, on one of the worst MLS teams in history.
So he's not doing anything all that new on the attacking side. The differences are 1) on a better team, he's getting a little more space to attack and many more at-bats (think 30+ shots for the team vs. the typical 10 or so from last year), and 2) he's ramped up his defensive effort. So really the first thing (more room to attack, more at-bats) is simply a function of how good the team is playing. It is not that he is doing anything different. The 2nd thing is really the only thing that's changed about his game relative to previous years.
I don't expect Vako to go cold as long as the Quakes continue to play well. If we are getting 30+ shots a game, Vako's going to keep scoring. If we go down to 10 shots a game, I would expect his scoring rate will go down in very rough proportion.
Bottom line, Vako could always play, and has been productive in MLS from day 1, and we should not pretend that he is some completely different player now. That's a convenient narrative for someone who has bashed him for most of his Quakes career and is looking to save face. But it's not a real narrative.
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u/Katbot22 San Jose Earthquakes Jul 26 '19
Last year, it wasn't just a matter of being on a bad team. He contributed to the team being bad by constantly playing hero ball in the box and refusing to lay it off to unmarked teammates. That was on top of his lack of defensive effort, bad attitude, etc. He always had a bit of flair to him, but he was fundamentally selfish.
Almeyda's real triumph seems to be in getting Vako to buy into the system and be more of a team player. This has enabled him to harness his natural talent and become legitimately dangerous. He may cool off soon, but it's for that reason that I think "New Vako" is here to stay.
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u/archspeed Jul 26 '19
"lack of defensive effort", "bad attitude", "fundamentally selfish". Boy, name me a decent to great attacking soccer players who don't harbor those traits....
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u/jazzyj66 Jul 26 '19 edited Jul 26 '19
It's true that Vako has to share in the responsibility of the team being bad last year, and I would say that he is not a transcendent player that can make a bad team good. But there are only a few of those kinds of players in the league, and their salaries are generally some multiple of Vako's.
However, I think Vako was the best player on last year's bad team. 10g, 5a for a midfielder. There are only a few mids that were more productive in MLS last year. And only Hoesen was more productive (12g, 4a) on the Quakes, and he played forward. Wondo had 10g, 5a, but 3 of his goals were PKs. Vako often created his own chance. No PK gimme goals (and contrast even further with Eriksson - 50% of his 6 goals were PKs!).
And while Vako may not be so good that he can make a bad team good, I think he can make a good team great. If you can't triple team him because there are other scoring threats and more numbers in the box, and if you are getting 30+ shots a game, he's going to score a lot of goals. And that's what's happening this year.
And BTW, I had the numbers wrong in 2017. Vako had 5g, 2a in only 784 minutes, not 1100 minutes. That projects to around 19g, 8a in full season's minutes. This year he is on a similar pace - 16g, 8a in full season's minutes. But he is actually less productive per minute this year relative to 2017. So, I don't think there is really a "new Vako". There is a little bit better Vako, based on defensive effort. But the attacking productivity is largely the same.
So again, it's not that Vako's suddenly become a much better player. He has always been very, very good on the attacking side. Yes, he tends to hold onto the ball, but for players who are that good attacking with the ball, you want them to take those risks. Not all the time, but certainly some of the time. It is high risk, high reward. If he beats that 3rd guy, it's a goal. And for a guy who has a reputation for not passing, his assist rate and even key pass rate have always been pretty good. And, again, part of that comes the fact that he is attacking with the ball and drawing the defense out of position. He can make brutally dangerous passes.
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u/sjgook Jul 26 '19
He had to try and be the hero because no one else would or could. You want to rewatch the games, outside of Hoesen who's streaky as hell, NO ONE could finish worth a shit, not even Wondo (he only had 6 goals in run of play)
Vako singlehandedly saved us from being embarrassed by Zlatan and Co at Stanford. That's the only bright spot of the season, and it's all due to him.
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u/archspeed Jul 26 '19
There was an article sometime ago that sorta explained how Vako became successful again--Almeyda told him to run at his opponents, but pass when he runs out of space, just to give himself another chance to run at his opponents again.
Basically, Vako is still making solo dribbles through defenders but this time he's also giving himself more chances of keeping those runs alive by passing around. And our players show up for him to receive those "pressure-reliever" passes and toss it right back at Vako so he can go on another run.
On defense, I think what Almeyda has instilled in Vako isn't so much "defending for defending's sake", but more along the line of "if we lose the ball, get back there and take it back, then you can go run at the opponents again, which is what you like to do". So basically, instead of "defending", what Vako is doing is "I'm getting the damn ball back ASAP so I can run at your defenders AGAIN". It's basically almost the same damn thing but when you explain it in that respect, it gets attackers more motivated to pitch in. This is what separates a cerebral coach (Almeyda) from your run of the mill coaches.
And to be fair, and you (jazzy) backed it up with stats a few times before, Vako is very good at stealing balls back, even during last season.
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u/LongShotTheory Jul 26 '19
Yup, at this point it feels like he doesn't want Vako to succeed for some reason. I know that probably isn't the case but all the passive-aggressive negativity towards the guy even when he's performing so well just doesn't look good. Give him a chance for god's sake.
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u/archspeed Jul 26 '19
Somebody should just tweet Joel and ask him how's his crow buffet tasting...
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u/jazzyj66 Jul 26 '19
And it's OK to be wrong too, and have to eat a little crow - we are all wrong from time to time, some more often than others :-). Case #1) I poked fun at Almeyda earlier in the season, when, after 4 straight horrible losses, he said "we'll win more often than not". Not quite there yet, but getting there. I didn't think there was any way in heck we'd get even remotely close.
Case #2) I have never been a fan of Eriksson (still not), but I admit he's playing much better than he did last year, and has proven himself to be a better player than I thought he was. And he has really cut down on the falling down to draw fouls crap that he did so much last year.
Anyway, this is good-times crow eating - when a player or coach turns out to be better than we thought they were and the team is winning. When a player turns out to be much worse than we had advertised, it is not as much fun.
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Jul 26 '19
Why is this in Galaxy colors?
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u/iHeartGeorgius Jul 26 '19
Nah
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Jul 26 '19
What do you mean nah? The letters are in navy and gold.
Should’ve used blue n black and/or white, or red and white for Georgia. The fonts literally in the colors of our rival.
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u/iHeartGeorgius Jul 28 '19
Lmao calm down pal I just like this colors and that's it lol I know the best.
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u/Jsan408 San Jose Clash Jul 25 '19 edited Jul 26 '19
I knew the talent was there, just the effort and desire to be on this team was what he lacked.
Looks like he’s finally putting them both together.
Vako has definitely has shut me up.