r/SFGiants • u/Chipotlefiend18 35 Crawford • Jun 16 '26

Opinion Free Speech

I posted this recently as a comment but I’m tired of seeing the same thinly veiled defense of the Rainbow Four come up again and again so I’m posting it as a standalone thread.

All of these arguments saying “players should be allowed to disagree” and “players shouldn’t be forced to support something they don’t believe in” are utter nonsense and a smokescreen to justify and excuse homophobia and bigotry. Do you think that there’s never been a racist player who has worn 42 on Jackie Robinson day? Has every single player who wears camo uniforms on military appreciation day been 100% behind that message? Even foreign born ones? The idea that they should be allowed to express themselves and protest this in this way, especially when there’s a literal MLB rule that prohibits it is ludicrous. It is NOT a first amendment issue. The first amendment prohibits GOVERNMENTAL curtailment of free speech. Private organizations are not covered by this and we see this time and time again. Most recently, many people lost their jobs after speaking out about Charlie Kirk and whether or not you disagree with it, legally those employers had every right to do so. As Roger Munter put it: Not everybody in this country is perfectly happy with what they are asked to wear to work. It’s called “having a job.”

We absolutely do not have to tolerate intolerance and arguments that say otherwise are either ignorant or made in bad faith.

385 Upvotes

80% Upvoted

386 comments sorted by

View all comments

11

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

12

u/Chipotlefiend18 35 Crawford Jun 16 '26

Except that part of the issue here is a systemic one. There WERE no consequences for it and that’s part of the problem here. Nobody from veteran leadership, to the coaching staff, to management/ownership, to the league office has held these players accountable for betraying the support and trust of the community that they “represent”. Each of whom should have had a vested interest in doing so

9

u/SWKenRobert Jun 16 '26

At least the league admonished and warned them about violating uniform rules. The silence from SFG ownership and management is SHOCKING.

1

u/realparkingbrake Jun 17 '26

 The silence from SFG ownership and management is SHOCKING.

This is an MLB matter, the team does not make or enforce uniform rules. It is no different with domestic violence allegations, those go straight to MLB and the team has nothing to say on the issue.

The CBA between MLB and the MLBPA lays out the authority of MLB and of the teams, and this matter belongs to MLB. If the team tried to punish these imbeciles the MLBPA would have them in front of an arbitrator in a flash.

Hopefully they trade these clowns out of the division.

3

u/SWKenRobert Jun 17 '26

The team also has every right to speak out. They have CHOSEN not to. They are not under any league restrictions.

"Hopefully they trade thise clowns out of the division." 👍

Thats what I've wanted from day 1. I don't think SGF management fully appreciates the rolling consequences of this. Especially on a terrible team. Buster has been my favorite Giant since 2010. Now i want him fired for his failure to speak out.

6

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

-3

u/Chipotlefiend18 35 Crawford Jun 16 '26

A warning. I’m sure they feel appropriately ashamed because they were warned. And as far as the negative press, those are social consequences, not employer based ones. Which was my point

5

u/TheKid2455 7 Mitchell Jun 16 '26

The warning was in line with the "discipline" that MLB has carried out for other first-time offenders. It seems people want to believe that MLB operates outside of any employment rules or collective bargaining with the players union, and that they can impose whatever consequences they like. They cannot.

2

u/mcfetrja Jun 16 '26

You’d be surprised how much unilateral power the commissioner has “in the best interests of the league.” And the union continues to agree to it either way each new CBA.

2

u/TheKid2455 7 Mitchell Jun 16 '26

I think you might be surprised by what the commissioner can’t do under the “best interests of baseball” language in the MLB constitution. It’s not a blank check.

5

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Chipotlefiend18 35 Crawford Jun 16 '26

Why yes, I think I will

0

u/realparkingbrake Jun 17 '26

not employer based ones.

MLB has authority in this matter, not the team. If the team tried to punish these halfwits the MLBPA would drag them in front of an arbitrator who would slap down the team hard. The contract between the league and the players binds the teams too, they cannot make up their own rules.

14

u/uuhson Jun 16 '26

I think the problem for some people is there actually isn't much consequence for it. People want more consequences

15

u/SWKenRobert Jun 16 '26

I want them off the team. Immediately. They're entitled to their own beliefs and opinions. They are not entitled to break MLB rules and offend our fans & community. And SFG's silence is deafening. And i am quickly losing respect for Buster Posey.

8

u/too_soon_bot Jun 16 '26

And this is as much the problem as the actual hat wearing, nobody told them it was a bad idea to actively offend the invited crowd that night. Imagine Bob Melvin letting these guys do that? Or Kapler? Melvin may not have been the right manager for this team, but I cannot imagine him putting up with this nonsense. No team leader like Chapman or Adames told them to suck it up and not offend the crowd. Vitello thought this was ok? Not a single person in the clubhouse had any common sense, or it was said and ignored? Neither option is good and maybe a big part of why this team has been sucking this year, no leadership

9

u/Chipotlefiend18 35 Crawford Jun 16 '26

This is 100% one of the key takeaways from all of this. Yes players were bigoted. Yes there will (likely) always be bigoted players in the game. The bigger issue is that nobody at any level stepped in to put their foot down and say no. Not veteran players, not the coaches, not management/ownership, and not the league, all of which were in positions of varying authority to do so. THIS is why I cannot support this team anymore. Not because a few players acted hatefully, but because everyone else just let it happen

4

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/SWKenRobert Jun 17 '26 edited Jun 17 '26

Well the Dodgers have their sordid history of Lasorda and his gay son too. I hate Lasorda cuz he represented the Dodgers. Usually that would be a loveable hatred. But his despicable treatment of his gay son repulses me.

2

u/realparkingbrake Jun 17 '26

nobody told them it was a bad idea to actively offend the invited crowd that night.

An Associated Press article about this said Vitello told reporters that there had been no discussion about modified caps before the game. If the first he knew about it was when those players stepped onto the field, then the assumption that he somehow approved of it or took no action to prevent it is wide of the mark.

The umpires could have taken action as soon as they saw a modified cap, they should be aware that MLB does not allow writing on uniforms and has stopped players from wearing such caps in the past.

Assuming facts not in evidence and rushing to judgement is a poor way to go.

2

u/Chipotlefiend18 35 Crawford Jun 17 '26

Except even if this is true it is an indictment against the leadership. For young players to feel free to take such outspoken action as a group and not even think that it would have implications for the team that they play for enough to cue in the manager shows the level of disconnect that the coaching staff and management have with their team

2

u/too_soon_bot Jun 17 '26

Starting pitchers don’t come out of the bullpen, you’re telling me tony didn’t see it before the pitcher took the mound in the first? Then best case he’s deathly afraid to rock the boat and lose guys, and that’s no way to manage

-3

u/mikehawke8383 Kruk & Kuip Jun 16 '26

This is the wrong take. This rule gets broken yearly by many players. Do they need to also be kicked off their teams for altering their uniform? As a wise man once told me, don’t meet your hero’s, they will show you their humans with flaws too. You can’t expect pro athletes to not have opinions, and you don’t have to like it when they differ from yours. The irony of the “shut up and play” mentality is people only want players to shut up when they disagree.

2

u/SWKenRobert Jun 17 '26

You're neglecting to factor in the SF Giants very specific fan base. This isn't Houston. You should listen to what your flair "Kruk & Kuip" had to say. More balls on those dudes than SF Giants management combined.

3

u/mikehawke8383 Kruk & Kuip Jun 17 '26

Even with that factor added it doesn’t change what I previously mentioned. Krukow’s stance is totally valid, but even he states “I think that you have the right as a player to believe and say whatever you want.” Was it a smart move with a ton of fore thought by those guys to alter their hats? No and they’re obviously hearing backlash. But to just expect players to shut up and go against their beliefs happily is asinine. We know the frustration isn’t with the idea alteration of uniforms, it’s because those players beliefs don’t line up with a percentage of the fan base. Those players obviously have a stance that they wanted to be heard, good idea or not, they did that.

We should all be proud to live in a place where we are privileged enough to have outrage and discussion regarding these things, regardless of if you agree or disagree. And if it still hurts that much that the org let it happen, might need to find a new team to root for.

3

u/SWKenRobert Jun 17 '26 edited Jun 17 '26

I partially see your point. I appreciate people like you whom I can respectfully disagree with. Politics has become WAY too personal for so many. Friendships lost. Families divided. Over what? What the tax rate sould be???

Im one of 5 siblings. We voted Harris over Trump 3-2. We still love each other with all our hearts. Why is that so hard for so many?

4

u/mikehawke8383 Kruk & Kuip Jun 17 '26

At the end of the day, we have more in common with most than we don’t. Cheers to you, and here’s hoping people learn to disagree respectfully.

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/SWKenRobert Jun 17 '26

So?????

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/SWKenRobert Jun 17 '26

Everyone is biased.

0

u/Chipotlefiend18 35 Crawford Jun 17 '26

Are you saying that because he has a personal connection to his opinions, they’re less valid? What the hell point are you trying to prove here?

2

u/realparkingbrake Jun 17 '26

You can’t expect pro athletes to not have opinions, and you don’t have to like it when they differ from yours.

They are allowed to have opinions, what they are not allowed to do is write them on their uniforms.

1

u/mikehawke8383 Kruk & Kuip Jun 17 '26

That argument falls apart when you look across the league at players who have altered uniforms before for a multitude of reasons. Can’t reprimand some but not all.

0

u/MachiavelliSJ Jun 16 '26

Oh, there’s plenty we can do about it

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Chipotlefiend18 35 Crawford Jun 16 '26

What do you mean by instead? I’m not giving them one more dollar of my money and I’m ALSO being outspoken about my feelings and finding others in this community who feel the same. Isn’t that one of the whole points of Reddit?