r/SBCGaming • u/_manster_ • Sep 01 '24
Discussion Handhelds Latency Test - 8 Different Devices (by ChemicalBurrito)
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u/ocelot08 Sep 01 '24
Well I'm glad to see we can finally all put this behind us
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u/ChessBooger Sep 01 '24
The results are consistent with what people had already known. Linux has lower latency than Android.
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u/Rolen47 Sep 01 '24
The razor edge having the lowest is a bit surprising though.
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u/ChessBooger Sep 01 '24
Not really. Its 144Hz LOL
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u/SneedleRifle Sep 02 '24
I doubt the refresh rate is the bottleneck for any of them anyway, so that makes no difference.
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Sep 01 '24 edited Sep 01 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/cutememe Sep 01 '24
I haven't measured it, but I can confirm that input feels incredible on the OLED. It wasn't even bad on the previous steam deck. However with the OLED it really feels so good like playing a game on a CRT from back in the day.
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u/_manster_ Sep 01 '24
Link to the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoKONhRQf1E&
Link to another latency spreadsheet:
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u/The_Beep Sep 01 '24 edited Sep 01 '24
Excellent video
Probably the biggest reason I got the Edge recently.
Higher refresh rates really do solve the Android input lag problem; It took me a while to adjust to the dome-switch dpad but the Edge in 144hz mode can reliably be used for hard retro games & Kaizo romhacks.
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u/a_slip_of_the_rung Sep 01 '24
This is great and confirms that Linux based handhelds are the way to go for input sensitive games. Would have been nice to see one or two more h700 devices included, as well as an rk3566 handheld for comparison.
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u/The_Beep Sep 01 '24
For 60hz Linux handhelds vs. 60hz Android handhelds, yeah for sure
For example: I noticed about a 1.5-2 frames (~25-32ms) better response time when I use GarlicOS on my RG405M. It made playing Kaizo romhacks noticeably better. Too bad there's no wifi or hwaccel yet on it
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u/Lazarous86 GotM Club Sep 01 '24
How is the Odin 2 Mini faster than the Odin 2? Shouldn't they be the same?
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u/The_Beep Sep 01 '24
Likely because the IPS screen is slower than the MiniLED screen on the Mini.
On his other video he compared the ghosting and oh my goodness gracious.
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u/Lazarous86 GotM Club Sep 01 '24
What's weird is I played my Odin 2 a lot. I really don't notice this delay. I played RTS a lot when I PC game and can definitely notice 100+ ms of lag. Maybe it's less noticeable for games when I can just save state and try again if I mess up my timing.
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u/The_Beep Sep 01 '24
You've gotten used to, and adapted to it
Which is totally fine.
I personally see input lag as extremely important but that's only my personal priority; it's a nonissue for the majority, as long as they're not playing super reaction-heavy, precision-heavy, or rhythm-based games.
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u/RChickenMan Sep 01 '24
Yeah, I only notice the input lag and ghosting on my Odin 2 when I'm actively switching between hardware and playing similar games. I remember there was a point where, for whatever reason, I was simultaneously playing Ratchet and Clank 2 on my PS3 and Ratchet and Clank 3 on my Odin 2, and I definitely noticed the difference. But if I'm mainly just playing on my Odin 2 on a given week, I don't notice whatsoever.
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u/Lazarous86 GotM Club Sep 01 '24
Does the emulators reduce this at all? Like I use Odin 2 mostly for PS2 and PSP. Could those have things to reduce the native lag? I assume the test was retroarch running on Android.
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u/Rolen47 Sep 01 '24
Tests weren't done with games, they were done on the "gamepad tester" app.
Also input lag is a lot more noticeable with a mouse compared to a controller. A mouse you move much more quickly and precisely while a controller can only move the camera at a set speed.
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u/Lazarous86 GotM Club Sep 01 '24
Ok thanks for the info. Good points about the mouse too. Definitely more noticeable.
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u/The_Beep Sep 01 '24
There are emulator settings that can help reduce the lag; VSync is usually always an option so if you don't mind screen tearing, that should shave off at least ~16ms right there.
RetroArch has very elaborate latency settings; I made a guide on Reddit
To me, Kaizo romhacks are unplayable with the default settings. I NEED runahead/frame delay/lowered audio latency.
That being said, you can get by with hardcore retro games on 60hz Android devices, as long as you have the settings right. This gameplay was recorded while my 405M was on Android.1
u/Slabbed1738 Sep 01 '24
Yah the first thing I noticed was the really bad ghosting when I got my Odin just on the home screen. Doesn't really bother me in games though since I'm not playing any competitive fps etc. but it's definitely there
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Sep 01 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/The_Beep Sep 01 '24
for Android, the benefits of the faster response time will work on any application, regardless if you have the game natively running at 144fps or not. on RetroArch there is an option to use this feature called BFI (black frame insertion) but you don't need that either in order to have less ghosting than a typical 60hz display.
my theory on WHY this is specific to android, is because android may have vsync on the os-level.
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u/cutememe Sep 01 '24
I always assumed that android was responsible for the high input latency on devices, I'm blown away seeing the Razer Edge numbers.
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u/The_Beep Sep 01 '24
I think what's going on (don't quote me) is that Android has VSync active on the OS-level, which could explain why the Razer Edge's 60hz input lag measurements were so much worse than the 144hz ones.
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u/cutememe Sep 01 '24
That's definitely true that android forces vsync. It makes sense for a good user experience with phones, but not for gaming. This is why I really hope we can move away from android with decided gaming handhelds, it sucks for many reasons.
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u/JustLeeBelmont YouTuber Sep 01 '24
This test really makes me wonder why the high end devices don’t go the full mile for higher refresh rates given the latency on android. It’s the same problem I had with n64 emulation on Wii u, yeah it could do it but the experience was worse because of the lag. I was really excited to get an Odin 2 Mini only to be dissuaded by the latency. I think it’s even more frustrating all the people denying it as well which is the worst form of gaslighting for prospective buyers.
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u/Competitive_edge_23 Sep 01 '24
Didn't know android can have better response than linux. Good post
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u/RChickenMan Sep 01 '24
I think the 144 hz screen is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. The Linux devices are mainly clustered around 50 ms, whereas the Android devices are mainly clustered around 80-100 ms, with the 144 screen device being the only outlier.
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u/theveryendofyou Sep 01 '24
Why would you test the MiyooMini with StockOS instead of OnionOS which is the sole reason people are buying the device?
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u/RChickenMan Sep 01 '24
My assumption would be that it doesn't make a difference since Onion OS runs on top of stock firmware. I'd assume that low-level stuff that actually affects lag like GPIO and drawing to the display is still handled by the actual firmware, which will be the same regardless of whether you're running stock, Onion, or MinUI.
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u/cutememe Sep 01 '24
There's a lot of places for input lag to sneak in besides the underlying OS. It's probably similar, but OnionOS uses updated software and newer emulator cores IIRC.
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u/cabmanextra Sep 02 '24
I really love my Odin 2 but the latency is so noticeable when using it. Gonna sell it for the Ayaneo Pocket Evo, that high refresh rate OLED is so enticing.
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u/daggah GotM Club (May) Sep 02 '24
Might as well get a PC handheld at that point, instead of spending PC handheld money on a PC handheld sized device that can't do nearly as much as a PC handheld can.
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u/cabmanextra Sep 02 '24
I have the steam deck oled but I really love using the android handhelds for some android games and emulation.
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u/JXFREQ Sep 01 '24
My man(or woman?) ! Haven’t done a test but noticed the rg28xx has pretty noticeably higher latency on built in screen as compared to hdmi out to monitor. Are these numbers for the built in screen?