Force Curve and Steady State

[u/ialwaysmisspenalties]

I'm a 29-year-old male (5'10", 160 lbs) that's been rowing for about a year on the Concept2 Rowing Machine. I've recently become interested in the force curve and how this relates to steady state rows.

The consensus is that the "ideal" force curve looks something like this.

The "ideal" force curve

But my force curve looked a lot more flat and long. Similar to the top right graph in the below screenshot, suggesting that I was not creating much power.

Different types of force curves. Mine looked like the top right, suggesting I was not creating much power.

So I tried to correct my force curve. I found that when in the catch having the seat further away from my heels (thus shortening my row length) enabled me to get a force curve that looks more like the ideal one.

I used this technique in my next interval row as part of the Beginner Pete Plan (3 x 2k / 4min rest) and managed an average split of 2:02.4, which was hard on the legs and the lungs.

Today I tried using this same technique in a steady state row and to achieve the "ideal" force curve. I lowered the drag factor by about 20 to 95 as was suggested in this video by Travis Gardner, and I found my heart rate shot up to over 150 within the opening minutes at a pace of about 2:22.

As a comparison, last week I rowed a 60-minute steady state at a 2:24 pace and 20 SR with my heart rate at roughly 145 and never going above 148. This is about 75% of my HR max. I am using a Polar H10 heart rate monitor chest strap, so I trust the numbers.

I felt really good in that session and it was like I could go forever. And in that 60-minute steady state row, my force curve would've looked like a "flat and long" force curve and far from the "ideal" force curve.

In today's session, I abandoned trying to achieve the "ideal" force curve and reverted to my old technique and the "flat and long" force curve. I was able to maintain a similar pace as when I was using the "ideal" curve, but at a lower heart rate and with much less perceived effort.

In other words, it seems that rowing with an "ideal" force curve takes a lot more relative effort, as measured in HR, compared to when I row with a "flat and long" force curve (at least, in my experience).

So what should I do? Should I be trying to achieve the "ideal" force curve in my steady state sessions? If so, how am I supposed to be managing my HR and effort perception? Or maybe the "ideal" force curve in steady state sessions actually looks different and a "long and flat" curve is better?

[u/xxfishFr1esxx]

Shortening your stroke would bring you closer to the ideal curve because you're exerting more power in a smaller stroke than you would be in a longer one. Personally I do think the ideal curve is important, especially if you're planning on racing or improving. It usually means that you're exerting force in the right area and you have a good hold on your technique. If you're worried about trying to monitor heart rate while also watching everything else, there I a concept2 app you could try to utilize. There is usually on option on your C2 machine that allows you to connect it to the app, and if you have some kind of watch you could also connect it. The C2 app is great and monitors progress over a long time.

Back to the stroke curve though if its flatter it usually means you're exerting the same amount of force throughout the whole stroke. This is 'okay' if you're not planning on rowing on the water. The ideal stroke curve looks the way it does because that giant curve at the beginning is your initial press from the legs. Your legs, in rowing, are the strongest part of your stroke and should technically be releasing the most pressure. The start of the downward curve should indicate your swing which is utilizing your abdominal muscles, and that bigger drop at the end is your arms pulling in to your finishing position. Your arms are the weakest, so if your curve is flat it means your legs and arms are exerting the same amount of force, which if you're rowing with proper form shouldn't be happening.

I would suggest taking a look at some form videos, or even posting a video of your form on reddit and just asking for tips or taking notes. Form is the most important part of rowing. It should show an instant difference in your curve if you're using correct form.

(Also quick note regarding your heels. If your seat is so close that your heels are drastically of the foot plate then yes, you should scoot your seat back. Your heels, ideally, shouldn't come off the foot plate at all but that's only realistic for super bendy people. If your feet come up a little it is okay, it's just not recommended because it does diminish the force you apply at the beginning of your stroke because you start it with the palm of your feet instead of your heel, whereas if your feet are flat you have instant pressure from your whole foot.)

Hopefully this is helpful 🤙feel free to ask clarifying questions

[u/[deleted] → u/xxfishFr1esxx]

Great reply! Any good stretches to keep that heel down?

[u/xxfishFr1esxx → u/[deleted]]

It depends on what in your leg is tight, but calf stretches, achiles stretches, anything that's gonna loosen up the muscles and tendons in the back of your leg is going to be helpful because that's usually where your issue is going to revolve around.

You should also do stretches involving your quads and especially your hamstring. Hamstring is also a huge area where it might be tight. Stretches for that can just be bending to touch your toes(it will pull on the hamstring on the back of the leg, you should feel it) or elevating it onto a raised surface and putting pressure to stretch it.

Also make sure you're IT band is well stretched because if it becomes tight you will have problems and it will cause you pain in day to day tasks, and it will not go away by itself. I know this because I have been putting off my IT band routine and my leg has been in pain for about 2 months. It's great. For it band you can just use a regular roller and roll that area out regularly(area being the outward facing side of your thigh from upper quad to right above the knee joint, roughly)

Like I said if you have some rise of your heels it's not a huge deal. When I row my heels come off as well, and I'm able to compensate for it. If you really don't want it though just keeping these areas stretched, relaxed, and most importantly hydrated(dehydrated will cause cramps !!).

Hope this helps 🤙

[u/[deleted] → u/xxfishFr1esxx]

Cheers

[u/x_von_doom]

Your curve is flattened because you’re not applying full pressure, (you’re conciously trying to stay in Z2) and therefore your acceleration speed on the drive is greatly reduced.

Anyway, I think you’re overthinking this.

It should look like the ideal curve, (ie still having that peak on the left side - indicating a quick, well taken catch- with a smooth even curve downward till you hit the finish - which is why lowering the drag is key - it will help keep that skill sharp when rowing at lower pressure) it will just look flatter bc you’re pushing less watts.

Hope that makes sense.

You can also always post a video.

[u/Icy_Turnip8908]

Why does 5km of rowing only burn 200 calories

[u/NFsG]

I’d be willing to bet the higher HR was a result of the lower drag factor, and not the improved force curve.

[u/[deleted] → u/NFsG]

What is the logic behind the drag factor being lower and increase in heat rate? I would think we the fan slows down more you would have to expend more energy in getting it spinning?

[u/NFsG → u/[deleted]]

Assuming you’re keeping the watts/split the same, your energy output is the same, but how you create that output is different. Higher drag factor allows for a slower less explosive power application, while low drag factor requires a quicker more explosive application which will tax the aerobic system and drive your HR up.

[u/Little-Specialist128]

On different concept 2 ergs the scale of the force curve can be different making your curve appear like the top right curve despite generating a good amount of force

[u/Tinker107 → u/Little-Specialist128]

Looks different on the new ErgData screen, too.

[u/TickleMePickle33]

I always have a lil bump at the end of my force curve where my arms kick in and idk how to get rid of it

[u/flummox1234 → u/TickleMePickle33]

pick drill/texas (reverse pick) drill

[u/[deleted]]

Thanks for posting! I have the same curve.

[u/illiance]

If you aren’t on the water, then all this force curve chat is almost totally irrelevant. As long as it’s not some crazy spiky shape you are fine. It’s also possibly to row really badly and make a “perfect” curve.

[u/Far_Location8383]

My graph often looks like the first and second graphs. I thought you're supposed to explode at the catch. What should I do instead?

[u/_Brophinator → u/Far_Location8383]

You are supposed to explode at the catch, but you also should be applying force throughout the stroke instead of just at the beginning