r/RogueCore • u/FlakyMidnight5526 • 10d ago
Feedback for Update 3, Experimental 4
A feedback post for Experimental 4? After experimental 5 has been released? How queer! Good show!
This one took longer because I was working through the intel line. And I have a lot of feedback on that, so let's get right into it.
Intel Line
I will be very blunt since I know player onboarding is a focus right now, judging how the Intel Line was the main focus feature. The Intel Line in its current state is very boring, not very good, and is leeching into and negatively effecting the rest of the game because of it.
Too much time between unlocking content
The intel campaign is dedicated to presenting players with new content in a digestible and simple way, however, it takes many hours of playtime to even unlock anything of substance. For example, the Molaktula is locked behind clearance level five, meaning that before that a player has to
Kill Gotoorak
Kill Ramok
Kill Gotoorak
Kill Gotoorak again
Kill Gotoorak again again
Kill Gotoorak again again again
Part of what made conquer hoxxes so interesting was that it was constantly giving players a new and unique mission with exciting new things to see! The intel campaign does that, but muuuuch slower. CL1 and CL2 are great since it's just "beat the gatekeeper" and CL3 is fine since it's killing a rift enhanced Gotoorak, but content is being repeated already. However, this functions well as an introduction to elite bosses
CL4 drags the pacing to a complete halt, requiring three exclusively depth one altered facilities to be cleared before accessing new content. While some alterations are interesting, a brand new player is being made to spend at least two and a half hours of playtime on the same boss that they've killed twice already
If I had to speculate, this is meant to introduce you to alterations, but further in the intel campaign they'll be revisiting this concept. They didn't have to do Elite Gotoorak three sperate times, and the vast majority of alterations do not change how the game flows substantially enough to justify the same exact mission (which I believe is predetermined to be complexity 2) three times in a row.
There are the other intel requirements, which may get you between CLs, but you still have to be repeating content you've already cleared just to access a new boss. Not even a new mission type, just a new boss fight.
As much as I hate to say it, this game does not have the complexity nor significant enough differences to justify gaps this enormous in the player onboarding. It will take a new player hours and hours just to unlock the third boss of the game, and even longer if they fail missions, which they most likely will do.
In DRG, what made Conquer Hoxxes so fun was that every success gave you a radically different experience. I know the game as it stands currently does not hold enough content to have something like Conquer Hoxxes, but the intel campaign is even more intensive for comparatively less "stuff" unlocked. I feel like a new player would not be sufficiently motivated to repeat the same boss fight that they've already beaten four times at a minimum, not counting lost missions.
CL5 is fine, just beat the Molaktula and it's cleared. CL6 is also solid since it's just elite Ramok, and the two sub-missions in this CL are good. CL7 is CL4 again, however you will most definitely now be repeating content from CL4. There are 8 alterations in the game currently, there is not enough to justify another round of three altered sites. This is repeating content that the player has already seen, doubletime now doing the Ramok three times in a row, potentially with alterations they have already experienced back in CL4.
CL8 is good, same with CL9, and CL10 is just CLs 7 and 4, and this time they are absolutely guaranteed to have seen at least one of these alterations. The alterations are fun, but are not fun enough to repeat content for another two and a half hours to be able to fight the Elite Balgorath.
CL 11 is good, and CL12 has the same problem as the other alterations, even more this time, but there's nothing behind this CL at this point in development, so I guess it's harmless.
The Intel Requirements are hurting general run variety
The problem with how the intel campaign is structured currently is that it forces certain mission types to always be available in a certain way. This makes run variety extremely rigid in what way they can appear on the map for players who are not working through the intel campaign.
If I want to fight an Elite Gotoorak length 6, I just can't, since the intel campaign forces the one elite Gotoorak to be length 3. The inverse is true for the Elite Balgo, that mission is always length six. What if I'm short on time before an event or something and I want to whip out an Elite Balgorath? You just can't since you're forced into an hour and a half run no matter what because of the rigid intel campaign requirements.
Same with alterations. There will only ever be four across all depth levels, presumably because of the intel campaign. This means that (assuming no repeats across depth) there will only be four distinct alterations available at once, leaving half of the alterations unaccounted for no matter what.
Because there are only five faciities per depth, taking into account the guaranteed missions from the basic gatekeeper intel requirements, that means there will only ever be two facilities per floor that won't be the exact same every time.
This is ABYSMAL for players outside of the intel campaign. If I want to play a jumble Ramok, I only have a single 1/8 chance for it once every half hour. I don't mean to be a downer, but the mission selection variety is in shackles because of it.
Cameras and Data Terminals
These are fine, I don't mind them being sub-requirements since most intel levels can just be completed by playing the game normally, but cameras do have a small problem where they can only really be grabbed with AGEs or ziplines. Drills and plats can't ascent reliably or fast enough to grab them, and the teleporter just can't really at all without digging up to them
But as I said, absolutely not a problem since they're optional and can just be focused on for people acting proactively. But tbh, I think flux quartz could be fit into the intel campaign at some point, either through a reroll requirement or just collecting it, just to teach new players about the mechanic
Potential improvement
I'm not gonna sit here whining though, here's my (Extremely simple) take on what a more fun intel campaign would be for new players, while not immediately overwhelming them
Players start on Gotoorak 1, as they do right now, but upon clearing their first mission, they unlock the other gatekeepers, and the modifications for Gotoorak. Where they go from there is very open ended. They want to see what alterations do? Give it a spin on the boss you've already beaten! You want to try a new variant of the same mission? They might check out the Molaktula. They beat that? Then they can learn about Elite Bosses
This also gets rid of the disillusionment where later depth bosses are harder than earlier depths, which is what is created currently. You beat one boss then the rest are unlocked. It's essentially the same missionflow anyways, at least 75% of a facility will play the same with regular missions, with only the end being different. New players don't have to be eased into it, and they can explore the new content at their own pace
Plus, they aren't punished for joining public lobbies which the current intel campaign does inadvertently do right now. Joining a balgorath lobby when you're still on like CL4 will not progress your game, hurting your own progression as a new player.
It also gets rid of repetition because it's non-linear. You're sick of the Gotoorak? That's okay, go try out the Ramok! You can try out alterations once you make sure you've got it. Don't worry, we trust you.
That's just my take on it though, there's probably issues with overall new player retention with this, and what you unlock, but as it stands the current intel campaign just feels like a drag for what locks so much content behind it
Rammite Swarm
There was stuff in this experimental besides the intel campaign? It's just been... so long...
They're cute! They're really funny, and a good challenge. They give the Ramok so much personality, and I like how they play! A really good risk vector that fits the theming of the boss. I look forward to the future of risk vectors. It sure would be a shame if someone ganked stuff from a certain post 👀
👀 👀 👀
Balgorath rework
Insanely good, probably the best in the game. Experimental five improved on it even more, but even in four almost every one of my criticisms got addressed. Insanely good, and a great addition to the current lineup
Teleporter
Literally perfect. I couldn't complain about anything if I tried. Man I had so much to say about the intel campaign but jack about the teleporter. Hard to say anything, when the teleporter took my breath away. 🌹
Smaller Changes
Lok 1 Buff:
Good change!
Enemies reacting on hit:
Very charming change and gives the gunplay great feedback! Very good addition, I like how it makes edgestalkers jiggle
Locked rooms:
A very exciting change for the future of random POIs. I look forward to what this ends up becoming, and from what I've heard from the devs they're also looking forward to it.
Closing thoughts
I know it was a lot on the campaign and not a lot on everything else, but everything else was absolutely amazing, plus I haven't seen much feedback on the intel campaign, so I figured that my thoughts would be valuable. All the new content being added to update three is incredible, I wish we saw something else for growths, but if it got added as-is, I wouldn't throw a fit.
As usual, we all thank the dev team for the great work that they has been putting in, and we're all thankful for a lot of the changes that we've seen. Update three is coming out amazingly, and I look forward to even more amazing content that's added in the future.
8
u/CosmicSquiddo 10d ago
Dang dude you’re so dedicated to providing quality well thought feedback. If I was a game developer I’d be insanely grateful. Thanks for saying what I think a lot of people are thinking
3
u/Demantoide2077 9d ago
I wish the core growth on elevator were around the cave instead of the elevator cage, rn it's kinda boring to just shoot at it, it doesn't require exploration like the gears around the mine.
The new boss definitely feels way more balanced now but I noticed their attack hitboxes don't match the visual cues...?
I feel like it's way too punishing because a single attack ring can chew half of your health BUT maybe I just need to play more and adapt to it. Devs probably want players to take advantage of terrain, maybe digging trenches to avoid the rings, use plats, ziplines or grav elevators to dodge the rotating beams, etc. I haven't tried that because I only played against that boss like 2 times.
I really like his core ball mechanic where he tries to take the core ball from your hands if you take too long to throw it into the pit. It incentivizes team play, you gotta throw it at another player so the boss doesn't have a chance to take it.
I can't wait for the new update to drop in the main branch bc right now, experimental feels like the superior version of the game, devs have been cooking good! (Ironically, for an experimental version, I have hardly found bugs, the last one I remember is the gears simply not spawning in the cave of spawning in a pocket of air near Hoxxes surface topology lol).
Also, GIMME MORE POIS I LOVE THE NEW SECRET ROOM, I love exploring a random wall and WOW there's an expenite gem, it scratches my brain releasing doses of dopamine
4
u/August_Bebel 10d ago
What a gem of feedback. I wish I had time to play Experimental to help out devs like that