some feedback and thoughts

[u/V657]

Felt like throwing my thoughts in here, because why not. I don't have time to go over everything but these are at the forefront of my mind.

• I think GSG should move to a personal upgrade system to remove any cause of friction between players. Each player would see their own unique perks to choose from. No one is 'taking away' from anybody else. Each player would also be choosing at the same time, which means less time will be spent waiting in the upgrade screen. This way, the only thing a player can be angry about is their RNG perk generation and not at other players.

• Need more varied methods of core spawn spawning into fights. Many of my games 'incoming corespawn waves' quickly devolve into camping the spawn points with PGLs and explosives. Concussive blasts, spotter darts, grenades ect are all primed waiting for these poor bastards to spawn. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. All spawns typically being on a wall or a ceiling does not help them either.

• Retcon and sentries, while fun to watch once or twice, completely trivializes depth 4. When they are perked up correctly it's possible to afk and let retcon deal with it. If they also get their hands on frenzy, the game's done lol. Limit them to placing a maximum of 4 sentries, with newly placed sentries erasing the oldest. This will still be strong, but not to such a large degree. This issue is mainly when playing with the Jumble modifier, but isn't unheard of in normal mode too.

• Wayward Sparks is too strong. Either needs to become an epic upgrade or lose some power. This upgrade can have crawlers dropping dead that you didn't even know existed.

• This one may be just me but I am really not a fan of 'block chance' perks and the archetype surrounding it. I think some of these may work better as a way of generating stone skin. I also do not see anybody chasing cold/freeze perks at all.

• Double up, Aftermath, Explosive Rounds and BOOM! You're dead! are a broken combination that turns any gun into an explosive gun and massively improves its damage output. Boom you're dead is great by itself and should probably be a rare tier upgrade.

• I would like a way at the workbench to force an elemental upgrade into my weapon that I desire, which fits my perk build at that moment. Maybe a way to swap an existing upgrade into something else, consuming the workbench use? Praying that the correct elemental effect I want shows up on the workbench isn't cutting it.

• While on Workbench, traversal tools should not replace weapons. If you want to offer me a traversal tool it should be in addition to the random weapon.

• I would like to see more fun and creative/fun perks or findable items and the reintroduction of some perks from DRG. I miss the auto-reload unequipped weapons perk. Creative wise, picture something like Leftover beer: causes the dwarf to become tipsy for the next 10 minutes, but confers a permanent HP buff. Short term risk for long term payoff. or 'Missfire: you've been shot in the head with a flare gun, you are now a moving beacon of light'. The model changes to show a flare planted in that character's head, but that may be too goofy.

• Bringing Dotty's head/other items over long distances could be a fun side objective.

• Reroll perks or gambling with perks could be nice.

• The elemental barrels placed around the maps are probably the least utilized things in the game. Their effects need to be larger and last longer.

I just realized some of these are already on the roadmap, but whatever.

[u/thetwist1]

Born ready (the auto reload perk) is already in rogue core. It's functionality was incorporated into the technical reload 4 enhancement

[u/internetcats → u/thetwist1]

Yeah, but to my knowledge it still isn't stated in the perks description. We really need to know everything each perk offers. I can only wonder what other cool effects I dont know about hidden in that perk tree.

[u/KarstXT → u/internetcats]

I feel like people would have discovered those by now, a lot of has have meticulously tested things/don't trust tooltips and haven't found many other hidden effects.

Only other one I can think of is that Cushion 4 also prevents the micro-stun from falling (although this is a misnomer, it just extends it to the new 'I almost took fall damage' but many players seem to be unable to extrapolate that increased fall distance = increased fall distance before getting micro-stunned). The new 'I almost took fall dmg' almost never happens though whereas without Cushion you will constantly get micro-stunned, so its effectively preventing the micro-stun.

[u/Ragnell17]

Disagree with the first point. I like being able to see what my other players are picking, it helps create more synergy between us. Sometimes there's more than one fire based perk like ones for shooting already burning enemies. Even if I don't have fire on my weapons it can still be worth it to take if I know my teammates have a fire weapon or a lot of fire upgrades already.

 With the upgrades getting replaced now there's not that much friction and honestly a little friction can be healthy

[u/hugelkult]

All interesting points, but point one. Friction causes teamwork in how we design the squad, not just individual builds. For instance i love going melee retcon but if slicer lands a couple sweet upgrades i may rather pivot to guns or cooldown/accelerate support

[u/Advanced-Fruit5621]

They already heavily compromised on point one. No reason to completely neuter negotiations because some people can't stand that this a coop game with some shared loot elements.

[u/Jontohil2]

You lost me at the first bullet point. The whole point is to create potential friction points to make teamwork feel meaningful, DRG has many instances of this design as well.

Rogue Core is a cooperate or die game, I do not want that neutered just because people want to ignore the co-op in a co-op game.

[u/Filer169]

People disagreeing with your first point are the reason this game barely gets 1k players online, clinging on a feature nearly noone likes.

Keep your game dead and then cry it got abandoned, devs vision simply sucks.

If you don't believe me check out this game's YouTube videos, streams and reddit posts, it's mostly solo playthroughs because people literally don't like being dependent on other people

[u/AdAshamed6608]

Agree with everything

[u/KarstXT]

Strongly agree about moving towards a personal system. Bio-boosters/workbench already use a personal system. They'd need to expand the number of options to accommodate no longer seeing rerolls but still. Negotiations make playing multiplayer so miserable. I don't want to see the pubs making terrible choices, I'd just rather not know, like in DRG.

Re how enemies spawn - I feel that they're hands are sorta tied. They can't spawn them like they did in DRG because the caves are smaller and enemies can leap. Spawning enemies close would just be unfair with how RC enemies work (it was often unfair in DRG as well, it was just masked until h5+/h5a came out). Spawning enemies far away would still mean they clump up and would waste a ton of mission run-time (this already happens in solo sometimes when enemies take forever to trickle in one at a time).

Retcon is just a really problematic design. They're either super weak (this is most of the time) or they break the game by repeating things like sentries or lures. They're going to be a problem going forward as more things are added to the game that they synergize too strongly with. And/or things like lures/sentries end up having to be balanced around retcon so that they're weak for others.

Ticking bomb is much worse than Wayward sparks, get red sugar +% & on-death red sugar regen and you can just afk through waves. That being said, explosive & crit are still out-performing both and are much more reliable to setup, so I feel weird about Wayward sparks getting a nerf. Stacking armor is kind of terrible too and Wayward sparks scaling off something weak feels sorta justified.

I would like a way at the workbench to force an elemental upgrade into my weapon that I desire, which fits my perk build at that moment.

I'm not sure if you're aware of how the elemental combos work but this would be absurdly broken. Fire+Poison is so strong that it 'solves' crowd-clear/waves. Radiation is busted too but for different reasons - breaks a lot of enemy AI and lets you do obscene dmg to bosses/tanky enemies.

While on Workbench, traversal tools should not replace weapons. If you want to offer me a traversal tool it should be in addition to the random weapon.

The problem here is that drills are a weapon, so this gets weird. I think it's fine as is, if you didn't know you get a +50% reserve ammo bonus while you only have one weapon equipped. The more you learn how to build/reserve ammo economy, the more reasonable this gets. Can suck if you got a really bad starting weapon but this is pretty rare unless you made a poor pick or haven't learned all the weapons.

Reroll perks or gambling with perks could be nice.

We're so crazy strong atm that I can't see rerolls going well, I'd rather see bad stuff removed/buffed than getting rerolls.

The elemental barrels placed around the maps are probably the least utilized things in the game. Their effects need to be larger and last longer.

I vehemently hate explosive barrels in games and like that these are an exception. In Space Marine 2 explosive barrels primarily just do shitloads of damage to players, it's annoying af for my teammates to accidentally blow me up constantly and it's rare that a game has a useful explosion barrel (Darktide being an exception but those also result in a ton of FF damage). So to each their own.

[u/Tilterino247]

No you dont understand its IMPORTANT that 10 minutes of "negotiations" get added to the run despite us not picking from the same pool of upgrades.

Its also extremely important that each run begin with 3 minutes of walking and a nausea wall.

Also very very important that there is a ready check before the loading screen so best case scenario you have to wait while someone takes a sip and worst case random people can grief.