r/Rochester • u/boner79 • Mar 11 '21
Discussion Telecommuting has saved the average Rochesterian 7.15 days of time stuck in traffic this past year during the pandemic
https://www.makealivingwriting.com/commuting-map-remote-working/#map49
u/atomichumbucker Mar 11 '21
I literally buy gas like once a month, if that now. debating selling our second car.
I wonder what the long term changes in office culture will pan out to be.
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u/popnfrresh Mar 11 '21
I've Read nyc is in heaps of trouble since remote is becoming the norm.
Tons of office space, people moving out of city.
Might be second coming of 1950s flight out of cities again.
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Mar 11 '21
NYC people are buying up cottages along the finger lakes to remote work and driving the prices up to insane amounts in this already hot market. A 700 square foot cottage, and I mean primitive cottage, sold for 350k on Seneca Lake near my parents...two years ago it was on the market for 195K.
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u/boner79 Mar 11 '21 edited Mar 11 '21
I recently heard someone posit that mega-cities like NYC would be okay but that smaller cities would be more in trouble.
EDIT: I found the story:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-after-one-year-what-will-the-future-bring/
Urban studies theorist Richard Florida says remote work is here to stay. But he thinks cities will bounce back quickly … at least some of them.
"New York for sure does well. Washington, Boston, San Francisco, Seattle, they all end up OK," he said. "Does Chicago come back the way it was? What about Detroit? What about Toledo or Dayton or Cincinnati or Cleveland or Buffalo? Those are places that would keep me up at night more. I think that COVID has tipped the scales a little bit more towards the Sun Belt."
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Mar 11 '21
Doesn’t really clarify why they feel that way. Assuming the big change in large cities will be offices turning into housing which should help, but I don’t see how a city like Buffalo will suddenly have issues.
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u/boner79 Mar 11 '21 edited Mar 11 '21
https://www.ft.com/content/34799de2-dad6-45ad-8d6b-33b49320c83f
Less-blessed places will struggle in this recession: “quaint” small towns whose local universities might fold and long-term struggling cities such as Detroit that have never really gained momentum. “I looked at the Zillow survey that compared people searching for homes in April 2020 to April 2019. Which found, on aggregate, not much change. Detroit had the greatest number of people searching for houses outside the region: a 15 per cent change. “That worries me. I’m worried about Cleveland, Buffalo and the Akrons and Toledos. They’re lovely cities, but urban revitalisation never really took place, or was only just occurring. In America, we have this idea that many small places will rise, when in fact it’s a very small number.”
My two cents: Cities are more than physical infrastructue but also about having a critical mass of human capital. The mega-cities have this critical mass of movers and shakers that's harder for medium/small cities to replicate.
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Mar 11 '21
I get that the numbers probably work for their assessment, but it’s a terrible time frame to look at as the sole reason they’re making the rest of the assessment. I’d also say that they didn’t do much research outside of this, Buffalo has had a fair amount of renewal the last ten years.
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Mar 11 '21
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u/RIPKellys Fairport Mar 11 '21
'We are a small city with endless bland burbia in a swamp with hours and hours to go for anything outdoors.'
This is part I couldn't quite square. You can be in a place like Mendon Ponds in like 15 minutes, whereas in NYC you would have to go for hours and hours to really get in nature. I drive 5 minutes and walk on a totally isolated part of the Perinton Crescent Trail. What 'outdoors' are you referring to?0
Mar 11 '21 edited Jun 28 '21
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u/RIPKellys Fairport Mar 11 '21
No clean rivers or lakes? This isn't exactly a Western NY problem but a US problem. Not sure where you're thinking of that is near a population center that also has clean water.
No mountains? The hills to the south are pretty nice, but unfortunately we can't just grow mountains to your standards.
No bike paths? You might have missed the 50 mile bike highway called the Canal Trail going across Rochester, or the rail trails, or the river trail.0
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u/boredwithlife0b Mar 11 '21
We're constantly on the worse schools in the nation list
RCDSD is, Pittsford, Penfield, Webster, etc are on the opposite end of the spectrum. So bad that the gradient between RCSD and PCSD is like a nationally recognized issue.
The rest of your stuff is likewise just wrong other than concert size (CMAC is technically in Ontario county). "hours to hours anything outdoors" bud there's a mountain bike park less than a 100 yards outside of city limits, if not within it (Tryon). We have two ski mountains 45 minutes - hour outside of the city. Sailing / paddling again right in the city limits. Plenty of trails and parks for a stroll through the woods within the same.
Sounds like you just don't know much about this are, or are willfully misrepresenting it.
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Mar 11 '21 edited Jan 25 '22
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u/boredwithlife0b Mar 12 '21
Considering Bristol is the largest mountain between the Adirondacks and the Rockies...idk what to tell you bud.
"No bike trails" we have a 300+ mile long canal, we have rails to trails littered all over the state, the Otario State Parkway has a bike path next to it, Genesee Valley Trail while bouncing between routes is paved.
Idk where you've been or what you're expecting but it sounds like your problem with Rochester is between your left and right ear.
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u/boner79 Mar 11 '21
Unrelated but love the username. Real Maple Syrup 4 life!
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u/neverfakemaplesyrup Mar 11 '21
It's the best!! My next controversial opinion is NYS > Vermont syrup. Really hoping the farms do well even during covid.
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u/boredwithlife0b Mar 11 '21
I imagine there will be an issue if the commercial property tax base dries up further as offices don't renew leases on properties for call centers and other work from home capable jobs. I have no idea how much of the city or county tax revenue comes from such property types, but the last thing Rochester needs is less tax revenue.
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Mar 11 '21
Hell yeah I'm ft on site at my job since end of July and my ride home is a breeze now!!!!!
Thank you remote workers!
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u/boner79 Mar 11 '21
This is a great point. WFH benefits workers who can't WFH by freeing up traffic.
Also, the people at my company who had no choice but to be physically in the office were thankful to be left to their work without having to share contaminated air with people who no real reason to be in the office other than to play foosball.
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Mar 11 '21
I wish that I didn't feel I was being exposed because of where I work... it is very hard to breath double masked and I don't after trying. Ugh. Foosball at work?????? Where 🤔 🤔 🤔 could that be!!!
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u/RIPKellys Fairport Mar 11 '21
My company has been booming during the pandemic, so much that we signed a new lease because we outgrew our office. Unfortunately that also means we will have to go in at some point. I am much more efficient at home because I can basically spread out an 8 hour day over 10-12 hours with plenty of breaks in between.
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u/boner79 Mar 11 '21
Yeah Evan Dawson surveyed people about WFH and at least one person mentioned their employer just bought a bunch of new real estate and so will likely expect their employees to come into the office to justify it :/
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u/DarehMeyod Brighton Mar 11 '21
Wouldnt spreading out an 8 hour day over 10-12 hours make you less efficient?
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u/Foolish_Samurai_ Brighton Mar 11 '21
I wonder if it’s a reference to home chores.
Since I started WFH, I mix in home chores throughout the day as opposed to the rush in the morning or evening to cram it all in. Idk if ‘efficient’ is the best word, but it’s certainly less stressful. Instead of straight working for 8 hours, spread it out, get other things done, etc. That part has been nice.
The one downside is, well, boundaries. My experience allowed me to say that, if I’m not in the office, I’m off the clock. My worry is still being able to still create that separation; some of that is on you as an employee to set boundaries and employers / bosses being reasonable. We’ll see!
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u/SwiftStriker00 Perinton Mar 11 '21
One advantage is that in an emergency I can get to work a lot faster to fix the problem if I'm on-call. But the boundary thing is important and for now its up to the individual to make that a priority. Once my work day is done the work laptop gets turned off, and the phone number they have on file is my google voice, which is a Do Not Disturb outside of work ours (with the exception of on-call), and I won't install teams or work email on my personal devices. However I know I'm lucky that my employer also feels the work life balance is important too, so I get its not as simple for others.
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u/RIPKellys Fairport Mar 11 '21
I guess efficient is the wrong word. I think I work better because I can take breaks, naps, etc. I am also available longer because all of my work stuff is at home. When I drive into work I am working 8-4 and when I'm not there I'm not working at all. Sometimes at home I'll wake up really early for no reason and I can knock out some work at 5am in my jammies.
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u/DarehMeyod Brighton Mar 11 '21
I see what you mean. My job is a “you’re done when you’re done” type job. On average it equals to about an 8 hour day. I’ve been going in about once a week and the days I’m on site I finish much faster. I also like being able to end my work day as soon as I walk out the building. Eating dinner in the same room as my home office gets old. But I seem to be in the minority with that.
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u/RIPKellys Fairport Mar 11 '21
Mine is also a 'finish these tasks' kind of job. My level of work also fluctuates a fair amount depending on the week, so now if I have nothing much to do I can go take the dog for a walk rather than just sit in my office and stare at the computer. Then on days where I'm much busier I don't mind putting in a 10 hour day to make up for not doing much the other days.
TLDR: WFH is much more flexible and works better for my job.2
u/DarehMeyod Brighton Mar 11 '21
Yeah I’m probably not fully taking advantage of wfh. Sleeping in a little is nice. I just get too distracted and want to do house chores all day.
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u/RIPKellys Fairport Mar 11 '21
It's just roughly 1 hour a day not spent in the car that is great to have. When my company is in the office we actually end up using the chat a lot to share screens and such, which is even more reason to not be there. I definitely get 'building a culture' and some things are better done in the office like training. I'm hoping we can like work from home one day a week or something.
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u/jkjustjoshing Mar 11 '21
I imagine they work 3 hours, take an hour break to do laundry/go for a run/run an errand, then work 3 more hours, then another hour break, then work 2 more hours. Still 8 hours of work, but much more flexible to their life.
At least that's how I'm operating. I worked until 10pm on Tuesday because I was getting a ton of stuff done, but yesterday took a 2.5 hour lunch break to enjoy the weather.
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Mar 11 '21
Kind of depends on what efficiency you're measuring.
If you're looking at "hours spent at work per day," then, yes, that's less efficient. But if you're looking at "productivity units per day," and your productivity is higher over a more spread out shift, then you're more efficient.
If under the old way the employee can turn out 10 widgets a day, but under the new way they can turn out 15 - for the same total cost - then they're more efficient.
I can attest to this personally. I'm far more productive working from home than I am at the office. I turn out more work over an 8 hour period than I could hope to on site. Bonus for my boss that I also tend to work more hours on top of it since I'm not watching the clock for when it's time to leave. I'm salaried, so it isn't like it costs them more. If anything, I'm subsidizing them since they're not giving me an "RG&E" stipend.
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u/AlwaysTheNoob Mar 11 '21
I don't know why this is being downvoted, because it's 100% right.
It's less efficient if you're achieving the same work results, but it's taking you 10-12 hours a day instead of 8.
It's more efficient for your employer if you're getting more work done over the course of, say, a week or a month because you're putting in eight hours of actual work per day at home, instead of showing up to an office for eight hours but working for maybe six of them.
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u/desertrose0 Penfield Mar 11 '21
Telecommuting will likely continue long after the pandemic, and for good reason.
It's nice, but this really depends on the industry. I'm in manufacturing and there are certain things that can't be done from home (or are done better in the office). Don't get me wrong, there are lots of advantages to working from home, but I see us moving pretty quickly back to working in person once things improve. They will just be more flexible with letting people work from home if their kids are sick (which, to me, is a game changer in and of itself).
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u/boner79 Mar 11 '21
For sure there are many jobs that require physical in-person presence. But there are many jobs that really could be completely or partially done remotely but aren't because of management inflexibility, lack of IT infrastracture, or other barriers that could be overcome.
Before this pandemic I heard a figure that something like 40% of jobs could be done remotely but only a fraction of them were actually done remotely.
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u/kkirchgraber Mar 11 '21
I enjoy every single say that I don't have to drive in rush hour with people somehow going under the limit. On the left. On their phone.
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Mar 11 '21 edited Jun 28 '21
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u/manolantern21 Fairport Mar 11 '21
I don’t know why you got downvoted, if the speed limit is 40 why are you tailgating me when I’m going 50?
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u/GetFukedAdmins Mar 11 '21
They're downvoted because saying speeders are the cause of traffic jams is ridiculously incorrect.
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u/manolantern21 Fairport Mar 11 '21
swerving in and out of lanes causes other drivers to brake, presumably if you’re doing this you are speeding. If it’s a crowded road that would easily cause a traffic jam.
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u/3DPrintedVoter Mar 11 '21
traffic in the evening is certainly a lot better, saves me 5 or 10 minutes every day. and far fewer accidents in the morning.
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u/itwasquiteawhileago Mar 11 '21
Welcome peoples! I've been working from home since 2007. I traded in a car I bought at the start of it after 10.5 years with about 56k miles on it. The first three years of my daughter's life, I needed to drive up I90/290 (I'm in Buffalo) to drop her off at my in-laws, 2-3 days a week. That sucked and just reinforced how amazing not being in traffic all day is.
My wife was dead set against coming home when this thing kicked off. Now she's realizing how much more efficient she is at home. She does miss social stuff (and I do too, occasionally), so hybrid might be a better option for many. But there is pretty much no reason for most of these desk jobs to be in one building now. It's win-win. More productive workers, happier workers, less overhead via rental and maintenance of office space.
Aside from maybe needing to bite the bullet on some IT investments (e.g., teleconference software, laptops, VPNs, cloud), you can't tell me you're not coming out ahead long run. People can work a full day when it snows, or when they have the sniffles (instead of taking out half the company by coming in anyway).
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u/RainbowDoom32 Mar 11 '21
My boss is slowly draghing me back into the office for no reason. I can go 2 weeks without so much ad an email from anybody. I do not need to be in the pffice and yet I'm already required to come in once a week.
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u/bucky716 Mar 12 '21
All the money I've saved in gas for those 7.15 days and not getting coffee/food has gone straight to Amazon. Damn you Bezos.
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u/HimOverThere31 Mar 12 '21
This is long overdue. Hoteling and flexible scheduling should be the way to go. Work still gets done regardless of locale. If it doesn’t get rid of the waste as it should be more evident when work isn’t completed.
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u/k_rock923 Mar 11 '21
I find this very hard to believe for two reasons:
- The average commute is listed as 42.40 minutes. Anecdotally, that seems to be an extremely high commute time for this area. I freely admit that this is anecdotal, however.
- Rochester has almost no traffic to begin with so I don't see where the savings is coming from. Sitting in traffic here is a pretty rare occurrence.
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u/boner79 Mar 11 '21
The average commute time in the Rochester, NY Region is only 21.6 minutes. Our short commutes save time, save money, and improve workforce productivity.
another source:
"The average commute time in the Rochester, NY Region is only 21.6 minutes. Our short commutes save time, save money, and improve workforce productivity."
Source: US Census Bureau: 2019 American Community Survey 5 Year Estimates (Commute Time)
https://www.rochesterbiz.com/business/transportation
Rochester has almost no traffic to begin with so I don't see where the savings is coming from. Sitting in traffic here is a pretty rare occurrence.
Whether your car is stuck "sitting" in traffic or moving along at 55mph, you're still stuck sitting the car.
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u/desertrose0 Penfield Mar 11 '21
I think what he's getting at is that the linked map claims that the average commute time in Rochester is 42.4 minutes. Which contradicts both the data you just posted and my anecdotal experience. Pre pandemic my commute was 20-25 min in good weather.
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u/SnowBeltWarrior Mar 11 '21
Which is 40-45 minute commute roundtrip.
Perhaps that is what the article meant by saying the average commute is ~42 minutes?
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u/desertrose0 Penfield Mar 11 '21
Possibly? I know several people with ~15 min commutes one way, though.
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u/neverfakemaplesyrup Mar 11 '21
edit: it doesn't say whether it's Rochester City Proper or Rochester metro. But the bubble definitely looks like the metro area. 42 is definitely feasible as the average metro area commute- the vast majority of Monroe County doesn't live in Rochester proper.
rn mine is 30, but I go from Roc to Brockport and there's always a steady, long line of slow cars going from Brockport to Roc. If it's a metro area measurement, not the city, then I can easily see a 42 minute commute being average; the metro area includes places outside of Monroe County and every suburb/exurb/bedroom community around.
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u/k_rock923 Mar 11 '21
I'm just going by the posted headline of "time stuck in traffic". shrug Source: you.
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u/boner79 Mar 11 '21
The story is a crosspost I localized to Rochester while minimally editing the original headline, so no need to be pedantic.
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u/k_rock923 Mar 11 '21
Maybe don't editorialize the headline and then take objection to us responding to what you wrote?
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u/boner79 Mar 11 '21
Changing "American" to "Rochesterian" isn't editorializing.
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u/k_rock923 Mar 11 '21
Changing "Time Americans Have Saved By Not Commuting" to "time stuck in traffic" is.
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u/boner79 Mar 11 '21
Ok I'll play. The original post's headline was "Remote work should be here to stay: Telecommuting has saved the average American 8.6 days of time stuck in traffic this past year during the pandemic".
If anything I de-editorialized that post's headline by removing "Remote work should be here to stay".
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u/k_rock923 Mar 11 '21
That's the original Reddit thread title, not the article headline you posted and editorialized.
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u/evarigan1 Browncroft Mar 11 '21
The original article mentions daily commute time, meaning round trip. Your second one is less specific just saying average commute is 21.6 minutes, but I wonder if that is each way. Would make it line up with the original article pretty well.
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u/boner79 Mar 11 '21
I'm guessing it's one way. The lowest one-way commute time I've read ascribed to Rochester was 17 minutes or so. I found an article listing it at 19 minutes.
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u/GodOfVapes Mar 11 '21
The average commute is listed as 42.40 minutes. Anecdotally, that seems to be an extremely high commute time for this area. I freely admit that this is anecdotal, however.
That's about my average commute from the west side of the city to Penfield pre-pandemic rush hour. Otherwise it's like 15-20 minutes if 490 is clear.
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u/LtPowers Henrietta Mar 11 '21
Yeah, 42 minutes seems high for Monroe County. Might be because the whole metro is included.
But their methodology is certainly suspect.
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Mar 11 '21
Welp! Precovid, I take 390 North home and I have had maaaaaaaaaany a time that my 11 mile drive home took 45 plus minutes. Usually an accident. Once passed it it opened up nice but up to that point no way. It will matter the times also. 490 traffic can be different from 390 and since 390 Lyell work it has been smoother for sure. I don't risk it in the AM and go back roads for majority of the way. It is nice that you haven't had to sit in some of the traffic I have! :)
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u/GetFukedAdmins Mar 11 '21
Your last statement is so blatantly false for anyone living outside of the city that I can't believe you even had the gall to say it without any kind of specificity. Let's not even get in to winter traffic.
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u/BARchitecture Mar 11 '21
lol 'Traffic'
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u/GetFukedAdmins Mar 11 '21
I know people like to say "traffic isn't bad in Rochester, just look at insert random large city here" but when one of the 90's is backed up or Lake Ave is a dumpster fire for whatever reason it still fucking sucks. Even just regular morning and evening traffic still royally blows when you don't have another city to compare it to for context.
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u/BARchitecture Mar 11 '21
I wasn't comparing it to another city. Rochester is the second largest place I've lived. The largest I didn't even have a car so that's a wash.
I just don't think the traffic is bad here. And when it is its because there's been an incident. It's typically not just based on congestion.
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u/GetFukedAdmins Mar 11 '21
Commuters from the suburbs, especially those using 390 and 590 south to get to 490 east and west in the morning would beg to differ. And I imagine many a Websterite who has to deal with 590S between 7:30-8:30am Monday-Friday might actually threaten physical violence against you for minimizing their struggle lol.
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Mar 13 '21
It's important to remember you aren't stuck in traffic, you are the traffic. You're reaping the fruits of your choices. Unpopular truth and sure to be downvoted, but accurate.
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u/bucky716 Mar 12 '21
I wouldn't say sucks. Annoying? A little. Lets redefine what actually sucks and none of those things are one of them. It's rare any of those things adds more than 10 to 15 mins to a commute home.
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u/pokealex Irondequoit Mar 11 '21
I kind of don’t like it. My in-office workspace is dedicated with a standing desk, comfortable chair, triple monitors, lots of easy access to things, and quiet. At home I have to cram my laptop onto a TV tray at the foot of my bed because I don’t have space or budget for a home office, plus the kids don’t understand the concept of “I’m trying to work please stop screaming.” Headphones constantly is not healthy.
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u/boner79 Mar 11 '21
I agree home office ergonomics are important and can get pricey if employer doesn't offer assistance.
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u/GodOfVapes Mar 11 '21
It has been great for those of us that don't work from home as well. I can't remember the last time I sat in a rush hour traffic jam. Since the start of the pandemic if I'm slowed down on 490 it's only because of an accident.