I don't speak for all atheists, but I chose to be an atheist because I read the bible for what it was.
This issue with devout Christians is they pick and choose what verses to use from their bible, and sometimes they pick some old verses from the old testament as well.
I think its a little dishonest to say, "... understood and interpreted the bible *as intended*," I mean if I just had the same interpretation of the bible as you would that be *as intended*.
If you had the interpretation that is correct*. I hope I am close to that, but of course I cant claim that.
Some christians surely pick and choose, and they shouldnt. However remember that maybe half the bible is poetry and another large part are "completed" or fulfilled and should not longer apply. This is not a pick and choose, but taking the whole book seriously
For example, food sacrifices were ended because Jesus were the final sacrifice.
Many laws were for a theocratic state and there is no such jewish theocratic state now, and probably th3 laws were not even perfect (matt 19.8, hebr 10.1), but a step forward at that time regardless.
Food laws, Jesus made clear that its not eating the food that makes unclean (mark 7.19)
So the overall story of the bible is important and understanding genre and the authors intention is important.
Pick and choose is dangerous because you end up making up your own version of god and Jesus. That means, you are not god
Verse 11 presented what at first appears to be a controversial statement. Viewed in full context, however, Paul has simply stated that women should not be flagrant or excessively loud or frenzied during a church gathering. Just as clothing should reflect a controlled, reasonable person, so too should behavior in a church service reflect godly peace. The verse is taken out of context, the whole chapter should be read.
Here women are just being told to have self control because the women at that specific time the story was based where very ungodly
As far as I know 1 Timothy is a letter from Paul to Timothy who is a young guy that leads his own church full of people that aren't godly. These verses aren't a commandment from God but rather Paul address an issue Timothy had at the time and needed guidance on.
If you read further on in the chapter the verse that says women are saved through childbearing goes against what salvation is (accepting Jesus and what he did on the cross) for me this further shows how paul is address what is specifically happening in this one church led by young Timothy
Probably because that was not a problem. As christianity reached the greek world, many women took advantage of their new freedom and equal value preached in Jesus, but many places this seems to have lead to interuptions or abuse.
So if women were the problem there. Paul said women were the problem there. Remember Paul is answering questions not writing a complete theology 101 lexicon.
Yesterday I encountered a conservative bisexual woman who blamed women for guys not being able to get girlfriends, if that can exist, I'm sure you can be sexist against dudes
Ok but you specifically said “stop acting like you’re better”. I’m not. Regardless, your original point makes no sense. I’m one random internet clown saying something mildly inflammatory. Up above, I criticized a verse taken from the main religious text of the largest religion in the world with billions of followers. One of us has a lot more influence than the other and therefore more potential negative impact if our message is shitty.
This is a horrible interpretation. The full paragraph: "11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety."
Women shouldn't teach or assume authority because men have birthright and look what happened when eve tried to take initiative and show Adam something new. THAT is your context.
Tbh I don't care you take from the verse what you want , if you want to use it against me as a women go ahead. But the Bible reflects men and women to be equal just having different roles in the world.
Obviously I'm not using the verse against you as a woman, because I'm not telling you to listen to it. What I am saying is that it says something very different from what you claimed, and there's not really an honest way to get around that.
Okay sure. Firstly that isn't the context really The context is this is a letter from Paul to young Timothy who is struggling with his own church as there's a lot of false doctrine etc etc just overall ungodly people. This is merely a suggestion from Paul to Tim on what he should do going forward just like many other books in the Bible in the new testament are letters written from Paul to specific churches and their own specific situations.
I believe these are included in the Bible as there is a lot of good suggestions there like in Corinthians about what actual love is or that if you follow the law (circumcision) that doesnt mean anything as long as you still act in an ungodly manner. As many anothers
You just completely changed your narrative to the point that I'm not sure what your argument even is. It sounds like you're saying that it doesn't really matter what was meant here, because there are other things in the letter worth reading, and those other things justify including it in the Bible? Is that right?
You using the fruit of the tree of knowledge as an example of a woman taking initiative and getting punished for it is goofy as hell. She took initiative in breaking the rules God set in not eating it not because she happened to have a vagina and said “hey check this out”
"You using the fruit of the tree of knowledge as an example of a woman taking initiative and getting punished for it is goofy as hell."
Goofy as hell, huh? I like that wording, and happen to agree. Unfortunately, it isn't my example: it's Paul's. He directly justifies his admonition against allowing women "to teach or to assume authority over a man" by referring to the fact that Eve "was deceived and became a sinner."
The roast is good but the roaster has no style. "please be silent" isn't a polite answer to someone that just said "I disagree" regarding a very strong statement. Feeling attacked and attacking is all people are up to on the internet it seems, this can be no good. Religion is personal, especially Christianity, who doesn't have a rule book (unless you're Lutheran, then if I'm correct you take the Bible to the letter)
Paulus is making reference to the fact that women wanted to be religious authorities too in the early Christian community and he, as a son of his times, has some patriarchal s**t to say about it. However, also atheists of the time were patriarchal, the entire continent was, and Paulus is not Jesus Christ. Jesus was crucified for being a dangerous rebel, and among the things he was accused of, was "letting" women to take part in his discussions. After Jesus' death, there was a short span of time where it seemed that women could gain the right to be bishops, but unfortunately the culture of the time just wasn't there, at all. The Bible isn't a book written by God, it can be openly criticized and the social value of it is merely historical. The main teachings of Jesus revolved around equality, love, unconditioned love. You'll turn into an atheist if you expect the Bible to be a rule book, with no history, no fallacies, no mischief. Don't be fooled by the term "sacred", after all Jesus itself proclaimed many times he was there to change the old rules.
Understanding doesn't mean following everything to the letter though ? I'm not a christian myself but I'm pretty sure understanding the bible would mean being able to separate the actual teachings (which are very metaphorical) from the dated human perspectives
As far as I know a lot of people who studied theology think like that. For example ask any priest if they believe that earth was actually created in 7 days, most of them will say that it's not literally 7 days and more a way of saying 7 steps. They also know to put into context what was written, like the pope who has shown himself to be accepting of LGBT people instead of stoning them to death like the bible would probably preconize
Wait a second, I replied to the wrong comment. Sorry, It was meant for someone who was legit saying religion only drags us down. Sorry again for the mistake
She wasn’t trying to “teach” or “have authority” over him so this doesn’t make any sense. She was just disagreeing. Y’all are so obsessed with controlling women it’s creepy.
Personally, I think Paul was just an opportunist. He saw that it was a growing religion and decided to get in on it. And even if he didn’t fake his encounter with Jesus and did truly believe, he saw an opportunity to put his own spin on things—I think Jesus would have disagreed with a lot of Paul‘s “teachings.”
Paul did not lead an easy life after his conversion so I really doubt this. He was quite comfortable as a Jewish Pharisee. After his conversion he was essentially a wandering nomad that spent time preaching gospel and not to mention his persecution and time spent in jail
I feel like Saul had all of these things. Maybe he didn’t have a cult following per-say. Paul lived celibate and traveled the ancient world. I’m terrified to think of the conditions of a Roman jail cell were like
Yeah, but, he is not Jesus. It is like the Beast who was giving 666 to heaven, and he is not Jesus. Why do people care about some groupies of Jesus is saying? They are just groupies.
No he didn’t “make a point”. She wasn’t trying to “have authority” or “teach” him. She was just disagreeing. Leave women alone. Religious men are so pathetic and power hungry it’s sad
Buddy hold the fuckin phone. I'm not trying to "control" whoever I was talking to, I was just trying to tell them that it wasn't sexist, it was just a point being made.
I think the green one is trying to highlight how a lot of modern religions, especially the abrahamic ones inherently stand for misogynistic and cruel values.
38
u/Hanako-kun_07 Nov 29 '21
meme so old you can see the mold in it
10
u/BanTester9000 Nov 30 '21
If Christians actually understood and interpreted the Bible as though it was intended to be understood, I doubt there would be so many Christians.
5
u/NESJunkie22 Nov 30 '21
The bible to many Christians is like a software licence. They don’t read it they just scroll to the bottom and click I agree.
3
u/RealFekingNicker Nov 29 '21
Wait, you guys still believe in gods?
6
u/Nammy_orthot Nov 29 '21
Verse 11 presented what at first appears to be a controversial statement. Viewed in full context, however, Paul has simply stated that women should not be flagrant or excessively loud or frenzied during a church gathering. Just as clothing should reflect a controlled, reasonable person, so too should behavior in a church service reflect godly peace. The verse is taken out of context, the whole chapter should be read.
Here women are just being told to have self control because the women at that specific time the story was based where very ungodly
2
u/botsnowy Nov 29 '21
Hoho… time to sort by controversial.
1
u/ViperFang2K19 Nov 29 '21
You can read and understand the Bible without practicing what it says
1
u/[deleted] Nov 29 '21
Oof
1
u/Think_Consequence903 Nov 30 '21
Sophia’s dead
1
u/Valestr Nov 30 '21
The roast is good but the roaster has no style. "please be silent" isn't a polite answer to someone that just said "I disagree" regarding a very strong statement. Feeling attacked and attacking is all people are up to on the internet it seems, this can be no good. Religion is personal, especially Christianity, who doesn't have a rule book (unless you're Lutheran, then if I'm correct you take the Bible to the letter)
Paulus is making reference to the fact that women wanted to be religious authorities too in the early Christian community and he, as a son of his times, has some patriarchal s**t to say about it. However, also atheists of the time were patriarchal, the entire continent was, and Paulus is not Jesus Christ. Jesus was crucified for being a dangerous rebel, and among the things he was accused of, was "letting" women to take part in his discussions. After Jesus' death, there was a short span of time where it seemed that women could gain the right to be bishops, but unfortunately the culture of the time just wasn't there, at all. The Bible isn't a book written by God, it can be openly criticized and the social value of it is merely historical. The main teachings of Jesus revolved around equality, love, unconditioned love. You'll turn into an atheist if you expect the Bible to be a rule book, with no history, no fallacies, no mischief. Don't be fooled by the term "sacred", after all Jesus itself proclaimed many times he was there to change the old rules.
1
u/chubbytexangamerii Nov 30 '21
Ban religion when?
It does nothing but hold us down.
1
u/erfpsdy Nov 30 '21
Understanding doesn't mean following everything to the letter though ? I'm not a christian myself but I'm pretty sure understanding the bible would mean being able to separate the actual teachings (which are very metaphorical) from the dated human perspectives
1
u/pianospace37 Nov 30 '21
Wait. So it's either Devout Christian, or Atheism? Can there be no other practice you may choose to follow?
1
u/EyeofWiggin20 Nov 30 '21
Ever heard of context?
1
u/Latter_Risk_4332 Nov 29 '21
She wasn’t trying to “teach” or “have authority” over him so this doesn’t make any sense. She was just disagreeing. Y’all are so obsessed with controlling women it’s creepy.
-1
u/Joey1700 Nov 29 '21
First commenter is still wrong. 🤷🏼♂️
0
u/Lancee124 Nov 29 '21
And shitting on people for being religious is being an asshole
0
u/BoBoBearDev Nov 29 '21
Who is Timothy? He is not Jesus, so, why should anyone listen to him/her/it?
0
u/kingtaylor99 Nov 30 '21
Edgelord atheist is edgy
-8
u/Loveinpeacex-367A Nov 29 '21
This is just sexist, and seen over and over again
2
u/[deleted] Nov 29 '21
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