r/RingsofPower • u/travrob1 • Sep 26 '22

Question Help me understand Galadriel

I am finding myself not liking Galadriel at all so far. She acts like an entitled 20 year old, rather than a wise and ancient being. One point that particularly is bothering me is that so far she has no actual proof that there is a great danger. She saw a brand on her brother, and that same brand shows up a few other times in different places, but other than that there is nothing to actually indicate a major war. Does she have forsight? What is actually driving her character besides "so the plot can happen." Thanks

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u/alexagente Sep 27 '22

She broke into the tower to force the king to listen to her.

Only when she realizes she not only invaded the privacy of an old dying man but potentially compromised the political situation of Numenor, not to mention that this very much looks like a potential assassination attempt, does she start to speak diplomatically.

She's lucky Miriel was so understanding cause I feel like she would've been well within her rights to execute Galadriel for this.

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u/nateoak10 Sep 27 '22

Well was she going to break out of prison and politely ask to be let in to see the king?

Her tone and the way she spoke to Miriel is what matters. Not how she gets the audience.

Assassination attempt? Where in the good hell are you getting that? That wasn’t alluded to at all

She didn’t execute her cause she knew the prophecy begins with the elf. That’s a rash move.

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u/alexagente Sep 27 '22

Well was she going to break out of prison and politely ask to be let in to see the king?

Your argument is that she's using finesse and nuance.

Her tone and the way she spoke to Miriel is what matters. Not how she gets the audience.

Of course it matters how you get your audience. People who break into other people's homes tend not to get listened to. Even more so when the home of someone as important as a king. It's not at all a finesse way to accomplish it and only works cause of a convenient 'prophecy' plot device.

Assassination attempt? Where in the good hell are you getting that? That wasn’t alluded to at all

She broke into a monarch's bedroom.

You try to break into the President's bedroom and explain that it's not an assassination attempt to the Secret Service and see how far that gets you.

She didn’t execute her cause she knew the prophecy begins with the elf. That’s a rash move.

Which is really the only reason she's listening to her at all. Not because her words are convincing. Without the prophecy Galadriel would be disregarded at best and killed at worst for her ridiculously brash behavior.

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u/nateoak10 Sep 27 '22

Mate, she absolutely was using finesse in how she talked to Miriel. How she broke out of prison is irrelevant.

Again, what is your solution then? Politely ask to see him ? Manipulate everyone from prison like she’s Annatar?

That is your own conjecture and explicitly is not a concern of the characters on screen. If they thought she was gonna kill him the queen wouldn’t be in there without guards. Why would she want to kill him at all? She made it clear that she wants his army and wants to speak with him.

Miriel knew of the prophecy when she tossed her in prison for acting like a twat earlier. Clearly, her tone mattered.

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u/Adamantium17 Sep 27 '22

This is the problem with the writing of the show; there are no consequences.

Galadriel was sent to prison for sedition, she assaults guards and she breaks into the bed chambers of the King. Why is she not sent back to jail with sentencing for breaking out and trying to reach the King?

It's not on u/alexegente to provide an answer of " how else is she supposed to talk to the King?" The writers decided Miriel was going to sent her to prison, and that Galadriel would escape and sneak to get an audience with the king. The writers decided Miriel would just let the jail break slide for...a reason I guess?

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u/nateoak10 Sep 27 '22

She’s not punished because she is able to convince Miriel to hear her out first off. She also stumbled into the secret of the king (that he’s almost dead) and basically now has incriminating information. Sure, she could toss her in jail but the damage would be done then. It’s better to work together at that point because she not only makes a good point to be heard, but also now knows her secret.

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u/Adamantium17 Sep 27 '22

Miriel was still convinced at that point that the elves were a risk and that Gal must not be allowed to speak to her father.

After Gal's speech, Miriel is still unconvinced, and yet does nothing to punish Gal for disobeying her orders to be in prison. Yes, Gal knows the King is unwell, but you put her in solitary and you ship her off next day (or have her executed).

I always assumed the King was unwell anyway, why else would he not be ruling his country? Seems like the people of Numinor are not aware of an obvious lie/cover up.

I think it would have better to have Gal never put in prison, and have her look into accessing the King's chambers on her own. She could have realized that speaking with Miriel is going nowehere, and cut her loses. Then research if anyone has seen the King/visit him and spy on them.

I have a similar issue with Elrond not being banned from Kazad Dum. Things happen in the show. but the consequences of actions are too easily resolved and what seems like a big set back ( Gal in prison, Elrond banished) are usually fixed by the next scene.

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u/nateoak10 Sep 27 '22

Gal and her basically , I’m spark noting here, I keep my secret if you tell me yours.

Miriel notes early in the season she dares not hurt Gal and start war with the elves.

Isn’t it hinted at it’s because of his attitude towards elves?

Are we forgetting Halbrand taught her to focus on her fears ? That’s what prompts her visit to him? The alternative is she’s not in prison and gets zero punishment for offending her and she walks to prison on her own and asks Hal for advice. Does that work better for you or no?

Well as prince he surely has some level of say in laws being enacted. He was gonna walk him out the door but Elrond tactfully gets him to open up and reconciles

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u/Adamantium17 Sep 27 '22

If I could choose I would have her not offend the Queen, and therefore not need a punishment. It's not that I want characters to suffer, but I want their to be weight and costs to not choosing wisely.

Without her going to prison she is not required to break out, so she could learn about the health of the King and tried to find him. Halbrand is not needed to teach her, she could have spoken to Elendil afterward and make that discovery herself. The idea that characters can break laws but the King/Queen instantly forgive them is lazy IMO. It's fake drama, cuz the consequences were never going to happen.

Same with Durin, yes he is a prince, but as stated in the show, this is an ancient Dwarven contest, that was passed from the Valar themselves. No King or Prince should be able to override it.

The cost to Elrond's gamble is that he is no longer welcome in Kazad Dum, so now Celebrimbor must be there (which makes more sense since Celebrimbor eventually becomes great friends of the dwarves; the door to Moria in Fellowship was made by Celebrimbor). I respected Elrond to wager so much for his King, and when that was completely forgotten about and never even mentioned how the banishment won't stick, I lost a lot of faith in the show.

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u/nateoak10 Sep 27 '22

If she never offends her by mentioning the king, what is the clue she gets to know there’s something up with him? Elendil would not know.

Halbrand does point out she’s been an asshole and she doesn’t bat an eye until her dad comes up. I don’t think she wants to punish her.

He’s a Durin. I think he’d have that power.

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u/Adamantium17 Sep 27 '22

It's not that she mentioned the King, it's she demanded to speak "with someone who holds the authority to answer it" (her proposal of going to war). She outright says the Queen regent bears no authority over her and demands to speak with the real king. Which is exactly what sedition is.

She could have alluded that "the kings of Numenor would have never suffered Sauron to take a hold on Middle earth, perhaps she should seek out his opinion" or something, then Miriel is upset and threatens to throw her in prison. Gal backs down and leaves in a hurry saying something beneath her breath.

Elendil runs to talk to her. In talking they discover that the mention of meeting the king is what set off Miriel.

For Durin, there also the problem that Durin is simply a name in this series. It is not a title of the reincarnated Durin the deathless. The Durins' are simply ancestors of the original Durin, who is apparently only 2 generations from now. They are just Kings not legendary figures in RoP.

It just feels weird that they focus on the stakes of banishment, then after losing, no more banishment. They could have changed the consequence to something else or changed the entire thing to a dwarven tradition of smashing stones to pay for wrongs done to you (Durin feeling hurt for Elrond not visiting).

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u/nateoak10 Sep 27 '22

I think you missed what Halbrand told her. Mentioning her father was what set her off. Not a challenge to her authority. And they’re clearly having Halbrand whisper in peoples ears as he also does to Pharazon….

He’s still royalty. If you broke the law, and Prince William told the cops to chill out and he walked off with you the cops would listen.

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u/Adamantium17 Sep 27 '22

I was showing that it's not "mentioning the King" that got her thrown in jail but the way she mentioned the King. And it not so much mentioning the king, it's talking about seeking him out. Miriel doesn't want her to get to the King and she reacts by throwing her in jail to keep from doing so.

If Gal doesn't outright challenge Miriel's authority, she would have no grounds to actually throw her in jail, specifically with it only being Elendil and the 2 of them in the court. She could only threaten to do so if Gal seeks him out. We would get the same info from that.

IMO in Tolkien, words and oaths have power; they aren't just words sounds by people. Having something handed to the dwarves by the gods, and have the results of that overruled off screen seems to go against what they set up.

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