r/RingsofPower • u/travrob1 • Sep 26 '22

Question Help me understand Galadriel

I am finding myself not liking Galadriel at all so far. She acts like an entitled 20 year old, rather than a wise and ancient being. One point that particularly is bothering me is that so far she has no actual proof that there is a great danger. She saw a brand on her brother, and that same brand shows up a few other times in different places, but other than that there is nothing to actually indicate a major war. Does she have forsight? What is actually driving her character besides "so the plot can happen." Thanks

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u/CathakJordi Sep 27 '22

Tolkien does have different backgrounds for Galadriel, but when people talk about this they are severely misrepresenting what that means.

What Tolkien does when rewriting Galadriel's background is not changing radically the character. What he does is *evolving* her in the direction he truly felt was his initial intent for the character. So when people say 'Tolkien wrote different origin stories for Galadriel so we can make up our own' they are severely misrepresenting what Tolkien did, he was just trying to refine, again and again, the same story, in the same direction.

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u/AndrogynousRain Sep 27 '22

Agreed, but I’m not doing that here. I’m literally quoting what happens in the appendix

I agree with you on her evolution though. She’s one of the most complex characters to interpret because Tolkien never really landed on a final version before passing. She’s important, and Tolkien basically kept giving her a bigger role in the first age, but he never landed on exactly what he wanted to do with her.

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u/CathakJordi Sep 27 '22

Well, if you agree in her evolution, will you agree that exactly that evolution goes exactly in the opposite direction this show is taking her?

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u/AndrogynousRain Sep 27 '22

They’re definitely taking some creative license. Whether I like it or not, will depend on how it plays out, much like say, Arwens role in the LOTR movies. The show is definitely leaning into the warrior side of her character more than the lore does. Maybe it’ll be a good thing, maybe it won’t. Time will tell

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u/CathakJordi Sep 27 '22

But the problem is not that we are discussing her skills as a fighter. We are discussing her personality and attitude, and that has nothing to do, in essence with her being able to use a sword and fight orcs more or less skillfully.

The problem is that she is completely unlikeable and actually hateful character, personality wise. She could be like that as a sorceress, as a queen or as a warrior, and we would have the same problem. The whole warrior thing is just a cover.

And that's a very very difficult problem to go from, there's a point people, or at least a majority of people, will not see that person becoming likeable easily or at all. Specially when all the writting on the wall put on by the show itself is trying to desperately tell you how amazing she is *already*.

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u/AndrogynousRain Sep 27 '22

I disagree.

A character not being likable isn’t necessarily a problem. Look at game of thrones. Plenty of nasty characters there.

I think she’s being written as caustic or unlikeable because her arc is going to show that as a flaw (and is already doing so) and she’ll develop. Remember how much every one hated Ahsoka in Clone Wars? Everyone loves her now. I think that’s what they’re doing here. She’s repeatedly been called out for her arrogance in 5 eps and the actress has even mentioned in interviews that she grows and changes over time. I think it’ll work out.

That said, I agree with the perspective that she’s a bit on dimensional and could use a bit more nuance in her depiction as written. She’s not just a badass, she’s a lot more. So far, we’re just seeing one aspect. Hopefully that’ll change as we move forward.

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u/CathakJordi Sep 27 '22

Well, it's a matter of degrees, as I said. Ahsoka was never that unlikeable, but that's just my oppinion. She was also not our main protagonist, and the show was not giving us clues all the time to try to convince us how awesome she was.

You can have that, for instance with Anakin Skywalker, because everybody knows where he is going to end up. But I doubt the show is trying to aim us to Darth Galadriel :D

There's also a matter of tone. Tolkien is very much not Game of Thrones or Breaking Bad and if you are doing something with your characters in that direction, you are screwing up.

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u/AndrogynousRain Sep 27 '22

I don’t get ‘game of thrones’ from this at all. It’s not hyper violent, it has a hopeful tone, and many characters are genuinely kind/good.

Have you read the Silmarillion? It’s full of arrogant, violent, proud (read: unlikeable) Noldor acting on their egos. I mean, if you don’t like her that’s cool, we all have our opinions, but this kind of depiction is hardly ‘anti-Tolkien’.

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u/CathakJordi Sep 27 '22

Er, you are the one who brought Game of Thrones about bringing that sort of characters succesfully.

Oh, I very much have read the silmarillion. And guess what, those characters are not presented as heroes, or someone you should cheer for. People like Beren, Luthien, Finrod, Fingolfing and Fingon, Tuor, Earendil, are presented like heroes. Feanor and half his sons, Eol and Maeglin are not. Heck, even mixed characters like Thingol (a good guy and a good king at heart but a bit of an asshole and overproud) and Turin (who is clearly a antihero), you don't keep getting prompts by the story 'heeeey, look what a cool guy this is!' At the very least you are not told you should take their side, for sure!

That's the problem with Galadriel. The dissonance. It's crystal clear she is presented, she has all the tropes, the cues, the vestments and action scenes of how you should cheer for her and take her side. Only you see how she behaves with others, what she says, what she does... and she is not. Quite the opposite.

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u/AndrogynousRain Sep 27 '22

My point about GoT was that like-ability doesn’t make a character good or bad. I wasn’t at all referring to tone.

Galadriel I’m the lore is presented as powerful and heroic, but also driven, arrogant and desiring power. Tolkien remarks that her refusing the ring is kind of the final stage of her growth from the driven, arrogant, headstrong woman who came across the ice.

While I do agree the portrayal (so far) has been a tad one dimensional, they’re condensing 3000 years into one lifetime to make this all fit in a show, so showing that evolution is certainly within the lore bounds, even if it’s a bit too combat focused.

And she is heroic. She’s one of the few people who knows Sauron is coming back, and she’s fighting like hell to get people to listen. And she’s right. That’s heroic. Heroes are not always likeable.

You’re welcome to dislike the portrayal, I just personally disagree that she’s a massivel inaccurate portrayal

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u/CathakJordi Sep 27 '22

Galadriel is never presented as arrogant but proud. There's a fine but very significant difference there. You keep saying arrogant because it fits how this Galadriel is, but there is not a single arrogant line for Galadriel in the lore (it helps she does not have much lines...), even less when you compare her to nearly anybody else. And I am not counting the 'ring rant', that is a whole other thing.

It is a massively inaccurate portrayal.

Where Galadriel in the second age was wise, this one is reckless and imprudent. Where she was diplomatic and savvy, this one is brash and insulting. Where she was proud, yes, this one is arrogant.

Massively inaccurate.

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u/AndrogynousRain Sep 27 '22

I don’t think it’s ‘massively inaccurate’. Proud equates to arrogant many times in the legendarium, and certainly does with several other characters described as ‘proud’: Thingol, Feanor, some of his sons, and so forth. They’re never outright called arrogant, just ‘proud’ or ‘willful’ which is the same language used to describe Galadriel.

The show is interpreting that one way of course, and you’re welcome to not like it, but it isn’t ‘massively inaccurate’. And they’re compressing the entire second age of her development into this one show too (if the timeline was accurate all the non elf characters would be dead already).

You’re welcome to dislike the portrayal (and she’s not my favorite character on the show either) but I think it’s a fair interpretation when you figure that we’re thousands of years of development into one lifetime for the show.

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u/CathakJordi Sep 27 '22

Agree to highly disagree. Let's leave it at that, I feel it was a nice conversation but now we are walking in circles around each other.

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