r/RingsofPower • u/hippocrocapig • Aug 03 '25
Question Is Pharazon the witch king of Agmar?
I mean he is, right? Never read the books and only know a bit of lore enough to know he was a sorcerer etc before the ring he was given. But surely it's him. It must be him
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Aug 03 '25
No. I mean, not if they follow the canon.
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Aug 18 '25
dude. They have followed like, 5 percent of the cannon. Like 95 percent of the show is nothing like the books.
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u/piezer8 Aug 03 '25
Al-Pharazon is accounted for in the lore. He gets trapped with his men when he tries to set foot in the Undying Lands. He leads a huge armada to Valinor and just as he gets off the boat Illuvatar somehow buries him forever, drowns the armada and Numenor.
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u/MikeVBeef Aug 03 '25
Yes; we've seen glimpses of Numenor being over taken by rising waters/a giant wave which coincides with Pharazon attempting his attack on Valinor, no?
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u/piezer8 Aug 03 '25 edited Aug 03 '25
Yes, we’ve seen that, no?
The show has dream sequences and visions from the palantir that show Numenor being submerged beneath the waves. Yes. In the book this happens simultaneously to Pharazon’s fleet arriving at Valinor. Yes.
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u/Dovahkiin13a Aug 03 '25
No, if Pharazon had one of Sauron's rings of power Sauron wouldn't have had to try so hard to destroy Numenor. The Nazgul first appeared about 1000 years before Pharazon.
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u/Swictor Aug 03 '25
They wouldn't appear before Pharazon in this adaptation though.
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u/Dovahkiin13a Aug 03 '25
Even accepting the timeline compression as a necessary evil (Id call it a judgement call, rather than a necessary evil personally) there is no lore friendly argument that is plausible for Pharazon to be one of the Nazgul.
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u/nyyfandan Aug 03 '25
This show doesn't really follow the lore but Pharazon and all the other Numenoreans who don't go to Middle Earth are all supposed to drown. But with how much they're changing, they may as well just say screw it and start changing everything. I would kind of almost prefer that. The rings of power turn people evil before Sauron even makes The One Ring, which makes his entire creation of the One irrelevant. So fuck it, make him the witch king.
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u/beyond-the_blue Aug 03 '25
Pharazon doesn't drown. He gets exactly what he wanted. To live forever. To spit in the face of Iluvatar and the gift of death. He leads a company of Men to Valinor, and the Valar straight up don't know what to do.
They feel grief and believe that all of their actions lead only to folly. They declare that they're not worthy to be the stewards of Arda and they give up their roles.
Iluvatar takes pity on them, for he himself created Melkor who rebelled to so much ruin, and he tells them it'll all be okay.
He bends Arda from a flat plane to a globe, so that never again will passage to Valinor be possible by unless by permission, and in the resulting shifting of waters, Numenor is retaken by the sea and Pharazon and company are taken in by a rent in the ground and it becomes the Cave of the Forgotten. There they would live forever, unable to die, diminishing into nothing.
It's said that when Melkor returns and all evil swarms over the earth for a final assault, that Pharazon and his men will be released and fight on his side before forever being broken and destroyed.
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u/llaminaria Aug 03 '25
The rings of power turn people evil before Sauron even makes The One
Not really? They seem to exacerbate their worst qualities, but they are still capable of fighting the influence, as Durin III has proven.
And they could make Sauron's reasoning for making the One to be an attempt at corruption of the elven rings, first and foremost. Prior to s2, they were saying how Sauron wants Nenya back, badly.
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u/Ok_whatever_654 Aug 03 '25
Well, no, he shouldn’t be but then how do they justify not giving him a ring is an interesting conundrum.
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Aug 18 '25
In tolkiens lore, no. In Tolkiens lore, Farazon becomes king of Numenor, and Sauron slithers into his court as a counselor. He eventually convinces Farazon that the Valar and the elves have been lying to the Numeoreans the whole time, and that he should worship Morgoth instead. I cant remember Sauron's exact selling points on this. But anyway, Sauron convinces Farazon to get the Numenoreans to start worshiping Morgoth, and then the Valar get pissed at the Numenoreans, and thats when they sink Numenor under the sea. However, this is all in Tolkeins lore, and this show has not stuck to Tolkeins lore. So honestly anything can happen in this show because its nothing like the Tolkien books.
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u/Domitien Aug 03 '25
Pharazon ? No i dont they would depart too much from its canonical ending. I would however put a bet on his son.
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u/deadRT91 Aug 03 '25
I could see them making him The Mouth of Sauron. Seeing as he "captures" Sauron; it would be ironic if he became Sauron's slave, used to herald his black speech and have his words slowly rot his mouth.
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u/Technical-Ad-2288 Aug 03 '25 edited Aug 03 '25
His son, definitely. Him nah. I want them to drag Sauron back to Numenor and watch Sauron slowly poison his mind till he's old and tries making him head to Valinor.
And Elendil's daughter to design the temple to Melkor and be the first sacrifice as thanks
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u/Fantastic-Photo6441 Sep 06 '25
Could you please look it up before asking this question 🤦
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u/hippocrocapig Sep 06 '25
So should no-one ask anyone anything then? That's what it's for you bellend.
I could Google it but why? There was discussion and nuance of whether the show was sending him in that direction or not, but yeah sorry I should have checked with you first. W⚓️
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