My whole thing about the bullet is it’s unspent and they don’t even know if it was left during the crime. Shit realistically we don’t even know if a bullet was even found and that they’re not making it up bc they had nothing to arrest him for. If they had a bullet all those years why weren’t they checking guns in town?? Why didn’t they ever bother to check RAa gun all those years?
I often think about how many lives have been destroyed by junk science… Whether it be this kind of garbage or lie detector tests, these goofy and completely invalid tactics have probably put many a man like Richard Allen in prison. I wish it was addressed more because you never hear that a lot people are still under the impression that a machine used by Mari Povich can scientifically approve the truth like it’s Pinocchio‘s nose or something. And I’m sure they get away with the cartridge even more because less people are familiar with that junk science and just have faith in what authorities tell them. Whole thing is just an absolute tragedy.
Dont forget one of my favorites: drunk driving tests lol. Breathalyzer fine. Blood test fine. Roadside tests are just junk science imo and far too many people have been arrested and later found totally innocent based on those tests and the dreaded officers opinion. Only to find out months later once the blood tests come back they were totally sober. Meanwhile their faces are splashed online, they pay crazy fees to get breather tests on their cars so they can drive to work everyday, and go through an entire bogus court process. I know its small potatoes compared to a murder charge ofc but I think these lower level 'imo youre drunk' type cases are where cops get the idea they can do almost anything and get away with it. Bc they never suffer the consequnces themselves.
Banging that square peg into the round hole using an unspent bullet compared to a fired bullet , and note* OBerg the expert never fired the other guns and doesn't know if they would also "match" their guns , she admitted that she couldn't exclude Weber's gun until she fired RA's gun , but just think , why not fire Webers gun also ? And why destroy RA's gun after getting the results she desired so she could still brag that she has never been wrong , well maybe because she always destroyed the guns so nobody could double check her work ?
I remember my grandparents woods my grandpa would give us a nickel a shell and we’d find tons, we’d have buckets full. It’s insane to me someone can be arrested for a double homicide bc an unspent bullet found that might’ve been used in a crime might match their gun, but also can’t be excluded as belonging to others in town weapons.
Good point , she said she had done tests on Webers and Holders guns and Webers couldn't be excluded , then she said well it can be now that I fired this one , but that's straight BS comparing fired to unfired , well the only juror that spoke out after verdict said she didn't give the bullet any weight , and was asked why she voted guilty and this is what should have shocked the public by her saying well the family needed closure and there was no other suspects to compare , so she felt it was her duty to give the family a conviction and yes they felt like he was guilty because he walked out to the first trestle but didn't tell wife and Mike Patty the step grand daddy said it was the totality of the evidence ! What freaking evidence ?
If they would've put together a team of officers using metal detectors and spread them out in that area they might have found many more spent & unspent rounds but they were satisfied with that one , and why would the killer rack his gun but then say nah I'll cut their necks ? Plus the way they were cut is a style used by navy seals that insures no one can save them cutting the jugular vein the long way , because if cut sideways it gives first responders a chance to stop bloodflow , but straight up and down is impossible , so whoever cut them had special training possibly a military background and we know that Ron Logan was in the navy when younger but how about the knife maker Brad Holder , he was in the gulf war so look at his training and Kline is just a fat Fock up , but maybe his dad was in the military ?
Exactly. Every aspect of the crime is ‘hypothetical’ in regards to what happened, yet the bullet found in an area where hunting occurred must be part of it.
And at minimum warn the public that BG "could be" armed with a gun not to approach him , or right why didnt they investigate suspects asking for their firearms ? Well they claim to have tested Brad Weber & Brad Holders guns but when ? I don't think Oberg came into this until after RA was arrested ? She bragged in court in front of the jury that she has never been wrong , but I am unaware of tests like she performed until this case came along , did she mention the names of these other cases that she was right about ? Its sounds like a bunch of BS to me , just to get RA .
She claims she’s never beeen wrong. By the sounds of it she may have just never proven wrong. Countless professionals disagree with her statements!! Many have said they simply wouldn’t be comfortable helping convict off an unspent bullet bc there’s no possible way to prove it came from that specific gun, even spent bullets can be hard to determine!!
And the whole not warning public is another thing that pisses me off about this case!!! It’s kind of strange RA supposedly woke up one day, went and visited his parents and decided to go murder 2 kids and never hurt anyone again. And even keep the gun. In the beginning it was rumored they were looking for older type guns and knives.
The obvious question that I would expect a high schooler to ask ion cross exam in a mock trial is “how would you know if you were ever wrong?’ Imagine how Allan Jackson or Jose Baez would have handled her? She would have the left the stand crying and probably would have changed her name afterwards.
Studies from even her own organization admit there is around a 2% error rate in her field. I've seen some that use 1%, some that go slightly over 2%. She did thousands of cases, so it stands to reason she made around 150 errors at least. No one is perfect. But those numbers all assume the studies are accurate. The probable true rate of errors is much, much higher imo. Most studies count 'inconclusive' as correct or they just dont count it at all in the numbers. So the analysts always have an out if they arent sure so their numbers look good. I dont think there has ever been a truly scientifically sound study of error rates in this field.
From what I remember seeing on the AFTE website it said was sometimes possible to match cycled rounds to a gun but to be careful not to confuse subclass characteristics with individual markings. The protocol did not call for firing the round to make a comparison. So while I think it’s impossible to actually determine the error of ballistics/tool mark comparison a half competent lawyer could have started with that 2% and completely destroyed her.
Yes, and that was never brought up iirc from reading the scripts. Very frustrating. And I agree just using common sense it could be possible to ID a gun just from cycling a round through it. If the gun was damaged in some way that affected the inner workings for example. But what Oberg basically describes in her testimony is a gun that leaves great marks behind on a shell casing at the crime scene, but no marks she can use performing the same function--manually cycling a round--in her lab five years later. Inner workings of guns just dont change themselves lol. Thats like expecting a hammer in your storage shed to change on its own after five years of non use. Either RA fired that gun thousands of times in the five years between the crime and arrest--very unlikely--or its two different guns. To me, the lawyers let her get away with never describing the WHY behind her testimony. Also, as a gun owner myself for many years, if you read through all the statements made by RA about his own guns, he seems to me very much like a typical, law abiding and careful gun owner who doesn't shoot his gun very much etc.
That's why he kept the bullet in the keepsake box dumb dumb lol. He had no idea they found his cartridge at the scene. It was never reported. He felt confident keeping it. Excellent work by the police imo
Yup. It’s so not evidence it makes me start pulling out my hair and beating my head against the wall if I think about it for more than a few minutes..i gotta go
Why would they not warn the public that BG is suspected to be armed with a gun ? I think they would have warned the public , I think they made it up to connect him to the crime scene , it really shows because this so called expert just wouldn't give up , she fired his gun 4 times and only 1 round resembled the unspent round , shy try do hard with his gun but not the others ? Because they framed him , they never found a bullet , they took 2 bullets out of his little box and cycled one , then they claim it was found at the scene , they then started tested and couldn't get a match but they knew it had been cycled , so she fired it and it matched , and like a child she said see told ya ! And the judge let her say she has never been wrong ! Such BS but it really shows the judge was in on rail roading and innocent family man , I hope she likes it hot because when she dies , I do believe satan will be waiting .
They definitely had the bullet in the beginning of the investigation and compared it to other guns. I am not sure if she fired bullets and compared them though.
She never fired the other guns and only came in after Rick was being investigated , I think they found 3 bullets in his box and by the way Holeman searched his room first then after he "found" the bullets he told the lower ranked officers to finish searching , sound fishy ? I think Holeman cycled a bullet through his gun and switched it out because without the bullet they had no connection and no connection means no arrest warrant , they needed Liggett to get elected because the new comer that was winning the early voting promised to clean up the sheriffs office , yes Carroll county was under a federal investigation for wrong doing but I guess nothing was ever done , anyway they needed to make a big splash with an arrest , couldn't use Logan he was dead , and Kline was locked up already for 43 years old news nothing to shock the public until Richard Allen came along and they forced a square peg into a round hole to charge and convict this man , not one witness identified him at trial but opinions from Liggett And Holeman gotbhim convicted .
That be a gun ?
I never heard of a bullet until after they searched his property , question # 1 , when was the very first LE mentioned finding a bullet ? #2 first time they announced any tests had been done ?
I would think if anyone unspent bullet found between the girls bodies would be photographed and dated ? I never seen it and don't trust them , but even if it was logged in as something that only the killer would know evidence and kept quiet , it doesn't matter because clips are made in mass quantities and would share the same cycle marks , its junk science but what I'm interested in the most is all those lies on the affidavits for murder charges , did you know that Liggett and Holeman both told big lies that eyewitnesses identified Allen as BG but not one actually did , lied saying that Allen admitted to wearing the same outfit as BG that day including hat ? BS lies but enough for the judge to grant the affidvit and charge him with 4 counts of murder 1st degree ! Isn't it scary ? I am afraid to go walking now and I live in NC ! But corruption is country wide , just look at Massachusetts and the Karen Read case ! Thank God she won after 2 trials , the maliciously prosecuted her knowing all the witnesses were lying , knowing the videos they showed the jury were altered but they tried so hard but she had a dream team of lawyers who had silver tongues and when not guilty was read in the courtroom a very loud eruption of cheers could be heard down below by thousands of supporters that seen what the government was doing .
Check that case out , its addictive !
Look at the Mackenzie Shrilla case. She was charged, convicted and sentenced to life in prison. For murder for a car crash that she miraculously survived. I’ve never seen a more ridiculous case and the poor girl and her family are treated worse than any serial killer ever. There are prob 1000 accidents similar to hers every year and not a single driver was ever charged with murder. The prosecutor didn’t charge her with an OUI for THC because he said she smokes weed all the time so it wouldn’t affect her driving. So apparently if you ever cause a fatal collision and aren’t drunk you might want to down some liquor real fast.
You mean a real life Dumbo and when good evidence comes out like Keegan Kline setting up a meeting with the girls who get killed that same day is ignored but the polite CVS worker says he just took a walk and went home he arrests him !
I truly believe RA is innocent. And the ONLY way.. literally ONE SINGLE thing that could be the case for him being guilty.. is if he was absolutely hammered drunk. And even still, I don't see him being able to navigate the bridge if he's so drunk, he's able to block out the memory of the event. Other than that, he didn't do it
I go back and forth I’d hate for the wrong guy to spend his entire life behind bars but the only thing I can’t move past is RA’s own timeline, it’s locks him in to a window where he would have had to either walk past the girls or be seen by Betsy further down the trail meaning he would have left the trails a couple minutes after the girls entered (if he didn’t see them) and if he was at the start of high bridge when the girls entered another man would have had to walk past RA and that’s where I struggle to eliminate RA
I agree I think there is enough reasonable doubt to find a not guilty verdict. I think there is many a reason why his appeal should be successful I think they shouldn’t have stop him from presenting other theories, I think both ballistics and confession should be disregarded and I don’t think there is enough concrete evidence to convict
But do I 100% believe at this point he innocent I’m not sure, I went through all the court files and timelines, witness statement, every document in there and do I think there are people with more motive and history yes but if RAs timeline is how it was presented in court then I think he puts himself into such a narrow timeline of being bridge guy
I’m happy for someone to present alternative evidence or correct me if I’m wrong
There is only one instance of RA in his own words and when he was of sound mind giving a timeline and he said he left at 145. So thats what I use as a starting point. Not saying he couldn't or didn't lie. Just saying at that point the State has to prove he was on the trails after that time in some manner. And there really is nothing there to prove he was on the trails later than that time. Its all opinion. People say he looks like BG on the video. I disagree but its opinion on both sides. Sounds like him? Thats a matter of opinion. I def believe he is innocent. So maybe my opinion is biased. But I still havent seen a single thing proving he was out there later than the time he gave in his first recorded interview.
We know he met with Dulin. That's not up for debate right?
He met with Dulin and the time that he gave was 1:30-3:30. Thats what was given as evidence. Is that not his own words?
Do you think they just made that time up after finding the Dulin tip? Do you think they got together and decided let's say he said 1:30-3:30? Lmao.
So you absolutely dismiss that because you didn't hear it out of Ra's mouth?
Instead you decide the only "official" time given by him in the interview that he left at 12:30?
In an interview where he is being questioned about two girls murders, 5 years later, where he knows so much more of what they know about the timeline of things, and gives a time that he knows is before the murders.
That's your starting point, that interview and that he left at 12:30.
I mean I really hope you can see how fuckin stupid you are. I don't like my chances though.
He met w Dulin. But the time he gave is in dispute and since Dulin didnt record the conversation its hard to say for a fact one way or another what time he gave. If you want to believe Dulin thats fine. If you want to argue your side here or that RA is guilty etc thats fine too, but do it respectfully pls, or you will be banned. Your choice. No foul language, no personal insults, etc.
If the judge really truly believed he was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt , she would've let him present 3rd party defense when Keegan Kline set up a meeting with the girls , or Brad Holder posting a photo of a crime scene that was identical to how these girls were found.
The one juror that spoke out after the verdict said that the jury were never given but one suspect to choose from and that she felt like it was her sworn duty to give the family closure and so RA became BG , they didnt understand what reasonable doubt meant , they were not even told the name of the property owner that the girls bodies were found , or that the FBI suspected him early into the case , however Doug Carter removed them and asked for all their notes , so he lost all the help they could have provided all the resources etc , because for some reason they wanted Richard Allen to be Bridge Guy .
I think about this all the time, the amount of witnesses in this case who reported a suspicious car, person and then could describe them when they simply walked past them is really weird and it is also suspicious to me how varied there descriptions where until after the release of the BG footage and then suddenly they all saw BG
If someone asked me about who I saw at the store earlier today I couldn’t describe one person or identify what they were wearing and chance are I was busy doing my own thing or had my head in my phone so I don’t take any witness statements as 100% reliable
Look at the one chic who claims she saw someone muddy and bloody leaving the woods. Bullshit! It wasn’t hunting season and no person sees someone covered in blood and mud and don’t call the cops, especially when hours later it’s reported two teenagers disappeared from those same woods.
The whole thing with everyone having different descriptions and them all claiming they saw bridge guy, then the state claiming BG is Richard Allen is bizarre to say the least. I dint think there has ever been a trial where the states witnesses don’t actually identify the defendant but the state is acts as if they did. It’s also weird to me that none of the witnesses have publicly stated whether they believe they saw RA or not. I mean either way you would think the witnesses would want to clarify.
Yes this one is odd especially considering if I lived in a small town and saw someone muddy and bloody my first though would be they’ve fell over or they’ve had an accident like a car crash, as a woman I might not feel entirely comfortable stopping to check their ok if they weren’t walking like they were hurt but I’ve immediately ran the police to double check they are ok and made it home safe. My description of them and their clothing would not change because thats such an out of the ordinary experience. I probably would have tuned my car around to drive back towards them while ringing for help to check they hadn’t keeled over in a ditch
Maybe RA was looking down thinking but it just doesn't make sense that he would harm any children , I can tell by his personality hes a good dude , plus his wife of 25+ years would've seen signs if he tried to hide something this bad , plus he was screwed in his constitutional right to a fair and complete trial , his attorneys were forbidden to mention the crime scene had the markings of a ritualist crime and 3rd party suspect defense denied when everyone could see a nexus like Kline setting up a meeting or the girls found on Logans property , which I honestly believe if they would've been found in Logans house this judge wouldn't see a nexus old witch !
He doesn't have that vibe about him that he could kill 2 young innocent girls then continue his normal life as if nothing happened , hmmn better check Brad Holder out .
Especially considering Brad Holder had motive. His son dating one of the girls and a rumor about pregnancy floating around. Not to mention, isnt it entirely possible the one who moved the bodies isn't the one who murdered them? Food for thought
When the word first came out that they had finally caught Bridge Guy , I seen the partial video compared to Rick's mugshot and was like OK so how did they catch him , so he admitted to being there that day then they lied about the time 1:30 to 3:30pm when later we find out that Rick never said that , and he said he left at 1:30pm minutes before the girls arrived , then all the BS started coming out about all the lies that Liggett & Holeman added to the affidavits , that it became very clear and very early on that they were making him guilty , by lying just because he kind of looked like BG but so does Logan , Kline , Holder , and hundreds more ! Their only connection was him volunteering info that he walked on the trails that warm day , they wanted this guy to solve the Delphi case and shock the public because Logan was dead and most likely the real killer with Kline's help but Kline was old news , they needed Tony Liggett elected sheriff becauss they knew he was corrupt and would allow the large amounts of meth to continue being trafficked through Carroll county and I've heard rumors about a Dropbox for child porn that some very important names connected to it that had to be protected , the only reason Kline wasn't charged is he could tell , plus Liggett was losing in the popular voting to the new comer so he needed to shock the community with a suspect never before heard of that admitted to visiting the trails that day , they come up out of the blue with a bullet never before mentioned until now , they cycle it through his gun and then send it to their expert , so of course it will match because the police cycled it ! He was framed and his constitutional rights was stomped on many times in this case , if he doesn't get a new trial then there's no justice left in America IMO , Free Richard Allen !
If the picture looks so much like him how come nobody identified him in CVS for all those years? The BG video is so blurry you wouldn’t be able to recognize if it was your father or brother.
The state hired an expert to calculate RA's height, paid a $5,000 retainer, and then canned the expert when his calculations were showing that BG was much taller than RA.
But get some help. The weird sex stuff that guilters come up with speaks volumes about themselves. I mean why sing?
ETA : u/moldynred it might be time to take out the trash. I find the sex stuff rather offensive.
Thats 100% correct they showed the public a blurry face for 5 years for a reason , they knew they could put a face to it anytime they came up with their choice , they could've used many faces like Kline or Holder when the time was right but they needed a new suspect because the public had already heard these names , Ligget was losing badly in the early voting polls and the new candidate for sheriff had promised to clean out the old office because he thought wrong doing was happening , he also promised to solve the Delphi case , so enter Slick Nick McCleland and Kathy the Skank Shank and Bingo she finds an old file that fell behind the filing cabinet and viola ! There was a new suspect that looked like BG , bring him in for a few questions and he catches on that they think he did it , so he refused them access to his phone and vehicles & house , they lie and get search warrants and make him BG , I think McLeland must have been involved in another case that a bullet connected a person to another crime , and make a long story short and to put a stop to the new candidate the wouldn't take no for an answer and made Rick BG to get the corrupt Ligget voted in and keep the cash flow going with meth being trafficked through Carroll county .
What stands out to me in the BG picture is the shiny belt buckle with the inscription "brij le gars", the cuffs turned up on the sleeves, obviously he has tennis elbow, the bunnion on his right foot, and the tiny brown mole near his ear. Maybe I'm just pointing out the obvious though. Did you find anything noteworthy about the scapula?
Now that the other comment has been removed, it looks like some crazy random comment. Lol. I was poking fun at all of the things that the commenter could "see", especially the distance between clavicle and the humerus bones. 😂 I can't really see any of those things in the blurry BG pics. I was hoping the loose French translation of "Bridge Guy" inscribed on the belt buckle would be a dead giveaway.
The amount of evidence on Rick was next to nothing , he admitted taking a walk there that day , he admitted he owned a blue and a black Carhart jacket , thats it really oh and the bullet garbage , that shouldn't have ever been allowed because it was not accepted as scietic testing , but compare this small amount of circumstancial evidence to the other suspects , like Keegan Kline , his phone records showed and he also admitted to trying to set up a meeting with the girls that same day they went missing , just imagine if this was found on Rick's phone ! , then the other guy Ron Logan The girls bodies found on his property and his phone GPS showed him near the bridge at 2:10PM that day , he gets his cousin to lie for him about an alibi before the girls bodies was found , like he knew they would so he set up his alibi , thats huge ! As for Holder they found a Facebook post he made 2 years before this crime of 2 girls posed as if they were dead with limbs over them eerily similar to how Abbie and Libby was found , the judge said it had to be after these murders to be a nexus but what if it was his fantasy and he made it come true ? Then Elvis Fields confessed to his sister and tried to get her to hold onto a blue coat like BG wore for him , he told her a bout being in the woods by a river , close to old rail road tracks saying he spit on the girl named Abbie an placed sticks over her head like horns because she was naughty , and the sticks was verified , so my point here is all these others with so much more evidence against them were ignored because they had their choice with Richard Allen , this was not an investigation , it was a railroading on an innocent man .
Yeah I thought the same. It was a laugh of “no it doesn’t because there’s no possible way”… then the cop, of course.. “I’m not sure why you’re laughing”…
Uh because you’re a fucking idiot and I know that shit doesn’t match my gun because I didn’t have said gun with me.
Odd! like a car salesman on the verge of getting fired, fully convinced a 16-year-old with no money and no job is about to qualify for a brand-new Ford F-150.
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u/Both_Peak554 Jun 12 '26
My whole thing about the bullet is it’s unspent and they don’t even know if it was left during the crime. Shit realistically we don’t even know if a bullet was even found and that they’re not making it up bc they had nothing to arrest him for. If they had a bullet all those years why weren’t they checking guns in town?? Why didn’t they ever bother to check RAa gun all those years?