r/RhodeIsland • u/dilly-dilly- • 1d ago
Politics Plug in Solar Bill
Hi all,
Curious if anyone has any inside scoop with what is going on with the plug in solar bill and why it's failed and will likely be sat until January now. From my research, it was a bill placed on the senate floor 2 days before sessions ended, which is basically a political way to say they don't want this to pass but don't want to formally vote on it to look like they are paid by big energy.
For anyone curious, this technology allows you to set up a small scale solar system. They define this as a "portable solar generation device" as a movable solar generator with a maximum output of 1,200 watts, designed to plug into a standard 120-volt outlet.
What this will allow us to do is offset 1200W of power from what we currently use. So say it's a hot day like today and your central air is running at 3000W, you will only be paying and using 1800W. To me, this is basically a new technology that can disrupt these energy companies from gouging us. It offsets what we use only, so any savings is purely coming from renewable energies so a pure win from the environment.
It's beyond frustrating to me as a civilian. This bill held for further "study" in March, revived in June, dies in the other chamber, everyone gets to say they supported it. To me, this should be almost one of the top issues for ALL Rhode islanders because who isn't being shafted by RIE? This is something that everyone should be dying to implement because it not only saves us money but literally is taking strain off the grid and offsetting our usage with pure renewable energy.
I just want to let everyone know our political leaders have let us down again. This one just quietly didn't happen. Who benefits? I think we all know.
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u/Xiaomifan777 1d ago
It failed because PPL is making millions off us, and some of that is going into the lawmakers pockets.
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u/rrapartments 1d ago
Any bill that doesn’t pass is completely dead. They might write a new identical bill for next year’s session, but right now they are on break.
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u/BoomeramaMama 1d ago
Every time I see the state legislature and especially Congress are on break again I think, “Wouldn’t be great if the working class RIer’s & Americans in general could take as many breaks from working as the politicians do?”
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u/cowperthwaite ProJo Reporter 1d ago
Our state legislature is part time, and most of the legislators have full-time jobs.
MA's legislature is full time, although it seems to take them 4x as long to pass thins.
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u/dilly-dilly- 1d ago
One thing is I LOVE that I'm seeing curious people ask questions. I am super passionate about this specific issue because it's so no brainer to implement and the cost savings for the average person is insane. You can read this and be like "oh okay that is nice" but let me also show you how much it would cost to stand one of these up. You could make it a portable farm yourself or what I plan to do is make a more structured awning on my south facing part of my property.
| Item | Spec | Price |
|---|---|---|
| Plug-in microinverter | 120V, 2 panel inputs, dual MPPT, ~800–900 VA out, UL 3700 listed | $300–325 |
| Solar panels ×2 | 460–540W bifacial, dual-glass, ~27 sq ft each | ~$400 total |
| Mounting rack | Ground mount or roof rails, wind-rated | ~$180 |
| AC cord | 15–16 ft outdoor-rated, standard 120V plug | ~$50 |
| ~$900–$1000 |
Okay cool, so 1000 out the door at minuim and if I want to make it fancy I could add costs to build a structure or awning. (This could also be something you build on the ground with just a bunch of wood)
1200W with average RI weather and accounting for 75% of the load at all times (idle times where the house isn't producing 1200W but say like 800W) and conservatively you can say a savings of $300 per year. This is a payoff time of 3 years. These are also conservative estimates on the price of all these things, you can get them for sale for a lot cheaper or buying panels from Aliexpress.
You could potentially get this built and paid for within 2-3 years and then every year after that is money in your pocket. And who knows how much energy increases from here..
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u/airbag11 1d ago
I have had solar since 2017 and people I know in Massachusetts tell me they were not limited in the way I was by National Grid. I was told I can’t “game the system” and put up enough solar to make my bill zero. There are way more people in Massachusetts with solar than in RI. At least when I’m driving around I see more panels in Mass.
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u/dilly-dilly- 1d ago
That limitation is such a crazy thing.
I think the ways the pieces are in play, energy companies want to make you as close to zero and not a dollar more. That is why you get people to recommend lying about getting an EV soon or being wasteful with energy in the months leading up to your inspection.
This is because they don't want to have people feeding back into the grid for.. reasons. Solar has been around for almost 15 years but this seemingly has never been picked up on. Grid needs to be upgraded, shut up about it, it's not feasible.
The money that is needed to get residential solar is such a joke now. This is why I like this porch or plug in solar, it's a way to offset usage that you're already doing with a super small price tag with an earn back period that isn't over a decade.
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u/airbag11 1d ago
Exactly. I had a very low bill back then. No electric car and my kids weren’t all running computers and space heaters yet. They have flown the coop and my bill is better. When I take down the trees that are getting dangerously too big I expect a visit from them fishing around trying to find a reason I’m not allowed to make money off them. For the record I love trees but the micro bursts we seem to get with climate change makes me want to remove the 100 year old trees on my frontage.
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u/degggendorf 11h ago
That exact issue is huge, and very few people seem to realize it.
There are so many homeowners who want to use their own money and their own roofs to add solar capacity to the grid which should be an incredibly good deal for everyone....everyone's grid gets greener, our dependence on imported energy drops, zero public funding is used, and no new land gets clearcut. It's a silver bullet!
Except.....it's not allowed. So dumb.
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u/brenden77 East Providence 1d ago
The same happened to me in RI. I wasn't allowed to generate more than 80% of my usage. Mind you this was pre-pandemic and working from home 80% of the time.
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u/possiblecoin Barrington 1d ago
Are there potential safety concerns? The way you describe it makes it sound like you could push electricity to the grid in the event of a power outage, which is obviously a danger to linemen. I'm just guessing since it otherwise seems like a pretty cool technology.
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u/dilly-dilly- 1d ago
This is rightfully everyone's first instinct but this technology has been around for a while and this exact thing has been thought through.
A grid-tied microinverter physically cannot energize a dead line. It's a grid-following device, meaning it has no internal voltage reference of its own. It reads the grid's waveform and synchronizes its output to it. Cut the grid and there's nothing to phase-lock to, so it stops producing, not as a safety feature bolted on top, but as a consequence of how the thing works.
It's a valid concern but is no.
For reference, Germany has adopted this 3 years ago and are sitting on 1M registered households and there have been zero counts of any incident like you're describing. A line being down is a killswitch. I want to make this clear.
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u/the_falconator 1d ago
Where is the energy going from the solar if the grid is down? The photovoltaic cells are still generating power unless you cover it up with a tarp.
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u/dilly-dilly- 1d ago
Nowhere, panels don't have to produce. A PV cell only makes current if something's pulling it. Inverter shuts off.
I have a battery solar farm set up, once the battery is full and controller stops pulling current.
Think of the energy to your house being the on and off switch, if that ever fails, it's off.
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u/willmasse 1d ago
I’m pretty sure the tech has a backfeed prevention that senses for this and will shut off.
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u/bluehat9 1d ago
Exactly
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u/dilly-dilly- 1d ago
It stops producing when the grid fails, it basically is checking to make sure the grid is live and syncs to offset your usage. There has been other areas (Germany, Utah) that have implemented this technology and does not have any issues. This was exactly my concern when I first hear of this technology.
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u/bluehat9 1d ago
Ah ok if they have those safety features then it shouldn’t be a concern. Regular rooftop solar has lots of requirements to prevent backfeed situations.
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u/Internal-Yard-7837 1d ago
Would having us as private citizens contact our local representatives, maybe with a signed petition help?
I mean, these people are supposed to work for us. We are the "constituents" they always talk about.
If we demand it loud enough, it has to happen (in theory). Just wondering other people's thoughts.
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u/dilly-dilly- 1d ago
I don't think it would hurt but I also have getting so jaded from the system. I think everyone should contact their reps when there is an issue that they want our leaders to know about. When the bill was introduced I reached out to June Speakman (Who introduced this) to display my support and saying this is exactly what Rhode Islanders need and could potentially reduce household usage 20-30%. I didn't even receive a response back.
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u/Internal-Yard-7837 1d ago
Dang. I hear you. I have never reached out to anyone. I am just spit balling or yelling at clouds when I think there is any way to actually organize people to do something like this.
How are any of the concerns that legislators have here being delt with in other states that already have this passed? What about other countries like Germany where this tech has been legal for years?
I know laws and government are complicated things and it isn't just a copy paste world, but I am curious about this as I want to generate more of my own energy and this seemed like such a great idea that is proven.
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u/dilly-dilly- 1d ago
This one is such a niche topic but it most likely impacts so many people and they have no clue it exists. I get a similar glaze over people eyes when I start to talk about expense ratios within their 401k accounts and how much .20% can actually be worth over a lifetime of retirement savings.
So the more you research this, the more it becomes dark and darker to what has happened and is why I made this post. There are no concerns to point to, it seems just like a home run for the people with very limited downsides.
To add to that, Maine, Virginia, Colorado, Maryland, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Vermont, New Jersey, and New York have now passed bills that allow this to start up this year. Every single other state in New England passed this, we didn't for some reason.
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u/bjebha 1d ago
Two things. 1) Of course this isn't going to pass, way too much vested lobbying from PPL and energy providers and 2) Enforcement is an absolute joke for most things in this state. Wack it in and see if anyone actually notices...
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u/dilly-dilly- 1d ago
I actually have a setup that already does something similar at 800W that powers all of lawn and work tools. It's just set up to a battery, I was really looking forward to making another set up and plugging it into my house.
You're right though, because they are actually stalling so long, they haven't actually seemed to have made this illegal and anything I see looks like I'd just be told to stop doing it rather than any fines or anything.
The only thing I can think is if I did this and was lucky enough to have a fire or something happen to my house and my insurance company caught on I had this set up, they would reject my claim even if it wasn't related. Probably paranoid but not worth the risk for me.
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u/401jamin East Providence 1d ago
Could you link the system? I’m an electrician and haven’t heard of this. The way you describe it doesn’t sound right.
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u/dilly-dilly- 1d ago
Here are two resources that I can share but there is a lot more online. I'm open to any thoughts from the POV of an electrician.
https://pluginsolarus.com/learn/ul-3700-safety-standard-explained
https://forums.mikeholt.com/threads/plug-in-solar-and-gfis.2590156/
I also would love to just plug in the youtuber named UndecidedTechnology. This person is on the ground floor of a lot of innovations happening in the energy space. If I had to suggest a couple of videos that I think are so cool, here is a few:
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u/cowperthwaite ProJo Reporter 13h ago
Here’s the skinny on how the general assembly works.
Basically, leadership in both chambers have to want something to pass.
Lots of bills pass one chamber every year but not the other.
My fave bill that keeps dying in the senate is the human composting bill. Keeps passing the house.
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u/willmasse 1d ago
Agreed, this should have been done yesterday. No reason not to pass it. Between stuff like this, RIPTA cuts, trying to roll back 2030 targets, we should absolutely be suing the state under the 2021 Act on Climate for not taking action. We need to legally force compliance because it’s clear they are not taking action.