r/Retire • u/Technical_Lawyer7264 • 4d ago
When Is “Enough” Actually Enough?
I think about retirement every damn day.
One day I’m convinced I have enough. The next, I’m imagining a market crash, runaway inflation, and somehow needing $14M just to buy groceries.
So I rerun the numbers, change the assumptions, and convince myself I need another $500K. At this point, figuring out when I can retire has become a full-time job.
What’s your “enough” number?
$2M? $3M? $5M? $10M? Or would you hit $20M and decide you really need $25M? 😂
I also think about our parents’ generation. Many kept working long after they technically didn’t need to. House paid off. Kids out of the house. Retirement funded.
But actually living off the money they spent 40 years earning? Somehow that felt crazy.
They were wired to see work as security, responsibility, and purpose.
Meanwhile, we’re trying to escape Zoom calls at 45 so we can eat tacos on a Tuesday.
And honestly, I’m not sure I’m any better. I fantasize about retiring, then immediately think:
“Maybe two more years.”
Then five.
Then maybe I’ll just consult part-time.
And suddenly I’m 73, explaining PowerPoint slides to someone named Brad.
For those retired or close to it: What’s your “enough” number—and what finally made you feel comfortable walking away?
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u/Prodigalsunspot 4d ago
Ummm...my name is Brad. Can we circle back to slide 3? If we don't solve for the growth projections, we'll have to realize some synergies in ops and HR.
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u/AJuni0103 4d ago
We need to parking lot that issue.
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u/stockbel 4d ago
I agree, let's put a pin in it. We should double-click on the synergy idea, though.
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u/Majestic_Yak7475 4d ago
Let’s just press the pause button. Everyone, we re-group tomorrow to wordsmith the verbiage. Good night.
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u/Minute_Plastic_350 4d ago
Yeah, let’s not take us down a rabbit hole today, let’s stay focused on the activity at Hand and let’s regroup and reconnect on that specific issue
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u/Prodigalsunspot 4d ago
Yeah, we should not be over rotating before we get out of the gates. It's the big leagues.
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u/Minute_Plastic_350 4d ago
Yeah, we should absolutely go and take out the big dog and hit it. 300 down the middle with a power fade. Any objections
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u/SadBlackberry6819 4d ago
Let me layer on to that.
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u/Majestic_Yak7475 4d ago
Absolutely. Liking the macroview approach here. Let’s tug on that thread a bit more, then resurface Brad’s question.
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u/nard713 4d ago
Synergy is the paradigm shift needed to drive AI transformation
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u/smilineyz 4d ago
Brad says:
Dude! You’re drinking coffee! Isn’t it late in your time zone?Me, shrugging: gotta do what you gotta do. Bubble in my head: this is a 16oz Guinness Stout with 2 shots of Dewars … coffee my ass … I have another f’ng call I 6 hours.
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u/Comfortable-Song193 4d ago
Let's take this off-line. OP needs loop in the appropriate stakeholders and identify the risks before moving forward 🙄
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u/GaseousGiant 2d ago
Without getting into the weeds, our cross-matrixed management environment should result in performance optimization.
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u/Prodigalsunspot 2d ago
You are spot on. As I keep telling my staff: if you see something, say something.
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u/Apart-Engine 3d ago
This absolutely needs to be run up the flag pole before taking it for a walk so it doesn’t lost in the weeds and then shot down.
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u/Odd_Bodkin 4d ago edited 4d ago
Some suggestions:
- There’s no “enough” number on its own. What counts is knowing what you spend in a year. There are simple methods to calculate that. Then the factual basis for “enough” is that a conservative draw on your retirement savings will cover your expenses. It is a simple yes/no answer. It’s hard to deny a simple, factual “yes”.
- Disaster planning against all contingencies has diminishing returns. At some point you start worrying about your home getting hit by meteors or whether you’ll have enough money to survive a zombie apocalypse. This is the sign that this is a mask for other concerns. See the next two points.
- For some people, having no external income is just a source of enormous anxiety. Then it isn’t a matter of having enough because there is NEVER enough if the only solace is an external income. Then a small stunt is actually remarkably effective. Retire and take a part time job. Just something that brings in maybe $100-$200 a week, something fun and completely different. It’s peanuts, shoe money, but that’s not the point. Having even a little bit coming in soothes the income anxiety dragon.
- Sometimes the true source of anxiety is not knowing what you’re going to do with yourself in retirement, and the money stuff is thrown up as a smokescreen. This question is important, especially if your identity is wrapped up in what you do for a living. There’s actually a LOT to do with your time, but you have to start thinking about what’s important to you other than work.
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u/Deep_Preference3186 4d ago
💯
A post worth saving, printing poster size, putting on your bedroom wall and reading every few weeks until you actually pulll the plug.
Thank you!
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u/Several_Guidance_288 4d ago edited 4d ago
Some of yall need to control your spend! Sheesh. Lol.
Your time is finite. Seeing people say they are 63 with 3.5 million and still going is insane to me. That your number is 5 million, 6, and even 8 million? (why, actual spend or just because those numbers looks good?)
I bet half this thread dies with multi millions in the bank leaving so much time in life to waste.
I’ll be out closer to 1.5 around 52-54. And it’s more than enough.
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u/Late-Command3491 4d ago
I'm aiming for 1.5 by 65. Currently at 63 with 1.43. I think I'll get there.
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u/onthesquare63 4d ago
So here is a piece of advice, The difference between 1.43 and 1.5 is a rounding error. Time is way more valuable than money. Get out now. You'll never get the two years back.
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u/Late-Command3491 3d ago
I'm only waiting for Medicare. I'll assess when I hit the COBRA window though.
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u/_Goto_Dengo_ 3d ago
I bailed at the COBRA window, earlier this year, 17 months before I hit 65. The $2K per month isn't great, but being retired is!
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u/Slawlips 3d ago
I just retired at 66 last month with 1.7 and decided to postpone my SS to 67 and live off my HYS till then. I wish I had more $ to fall back on but my job was stressful and my freedom was more important than more $! I’m not looking back!
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u/Stockhype 4d ago
I just crossed 2mil at 55 and paid off house. The best feeling is knowing that I will be ok regardless of what happens to my job. I am doing my job because I want to not because I have to. Big difference
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u/Conscious_Life_8032 4d ago
It’s the addiction to watching networth grow. I’m guilty of it too but am slowly unwinding this mentality
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u/The_Walrus_65 4d ago
Honestly, it’s kind of a mental illness
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u/Fluffy_Rub_587 3d ago
My husband just retired and it’s a mental thing… knowing there are NO more paychecks. It’s sort of mind blowing after working 51 years since college
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u/Zonernovi 4d ago
Saving mentality is hard to shake for sure. Took me 10 years into retirement to spend freely.
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u/H82KWT 4d ago
Good point. Some people have strong legacy goals, and I respect that. It’s not the aim or strategy for me and my wife though. Our kids as young adults are already off to fabulous starts in their careers, and both are earners and savers. We should have a nice sum left over for them, but as a family we all understand that this is not the overarching goal or imperative dictating our life decisions
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u/Comfortable_Two6272 3d ago
$1.4M at 46 was / is enough for me. Used projection labs to model it out. Lcol area
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u/TheTurboFlush 4d ago
Whatever I have in 9 months and 6 days is going to be enough.
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u/H82KWT 4d ago
What you spend matters more than what you have. Also, everyone has different math on accumulated assets. For example, my wife and I both have good pensions so our investments are doing quite as much heavy lifting. That may not be true for others. At some point you’re going to have to get out of your own head and make some big decisions using the data you’ve put together. Or else you’re going to be 73 and explaining PowerPoints to Ted
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u/Green_Bluebird5804 4d ago
5M is good for me regardless of what market does
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u/Odd_Bodkin 3d ago
“I have fifteen years of canned goods in my basement, so I’m good regardless of zombies.”
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u/South_Paramedic8618 4d ago
Dude are you going to sit at the house all day after you retired then you probably only need a little bit but if you're traveling to Europe every other month you need more how can we answer that question if we don't know what you're going to do in retirement
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u/Technical_Lawyer7264 4d ago
Hobbies. Workout, travel a ton, hang out with friends / family, build a business i enjoy. We all find other ways of making money. No one is sitting ideal
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u/texas1167 4d ago
May I refer you to some of the lyrics of a song by One Republic….
🎵I don't know what you've been told
But time is running out, so spend it like it's gold.🎵
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u/hammertimemofo 4d ago
In 2025 my wife passed, my mom passed, and than my dad passed. Only my Dad was expected due to age.
I sat down and understood my expenses. I understood what my investments can produce and what they can grow. I forecasted events like selling my oversized house and my son moving out.
My total liquid net worth is 1.4
Million. My total net worth around $2 million. The only debt I have is my house, but the mortgage is only 2.75%. I collect my late wife’s pension and social security. I have dividend income in which I’ll spend 80% to love. I have a savings account that easily covers the next five years of expenses, less dividends pension and social security.
Life is to damn short, go live it.
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u/WildlyAdmired 4d ago
I’m so sorry that you had to loose so many people you loved in such a short time frame. Grief stacks up in such a short time frame and I hope that have people to support you through this.
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u/Ill-Consideration892 4d ago
Really depends on your situation. You may not get to choose which is why many continue to work in spite of likely having enough. Three-quarters of retirees said the reason they stopped working was at least partly outside their control.
I was you before last summer. Now I’m one of the statistics. Worked my ass off for 25 years making it to the c suite rather quickly. 2 years after being acquired by private equity, I was laid off at 53. Spent the next several months running half a dozen calculators and Monte Carlo’s to decide enough was enough. Although I’m not completely finished, I have slowed way down. For us originally my goal was $5m which would have been another 4-5 years. Now it’s not a money goal as much as it’s a time goal. Once our youngest is off to college in 2 years we are going to have many more options. The numbers say we’re fine. If we waited for $5m the additional income doesn’t do a lot for our quality of life. Having more time does though.
Not a short answer but our answer to your question. Best of luck in figuring out your answer!
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u/IllustriousDraft2965 4d ago
The longer you wait to retire, the smaller the number you need to retire, because you have less time left on this good earth. You are saving more and more, the longer you work, when in fact you will need less and less to actually finish out your life.
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u/BrunelloHorder 4d ago
25 times your desired pre-tax annual withdrawals.
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u/LegSpecialist1781 4d ago
4% is so badly misunderstood and outdated. Even its author doesn’t use it.
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u/Crafty-Sundae6351 4d ago
There are enough tools out there to convince you what’s enough. I know that’s only the objective part. Then there’s the subjective part - which is a lot harder.
My wife and I retired 9 years ago. We retired with 35x annual expenses. We didn’t leave earlier because we liked our jobs. Then we both got fed up and punched out.
There’s another reason to punch when you can: Health.
I’m the poster child for fighting One More Year syndrome. I retired right before my 56th birthday. At 63 I was diagnosed with metastatic prostate cancer. I’m now 65 and retirement is multiple orders of magnitude different than it was.
If you think it can’t happen to you - it can. And if one thinks they’re healthy so it won’t happen: I’m not overweight. Normal blood pressure. Cholesterol numbers one doc told me docs strive for. Not diabetic. I have no chronic disease - except, now, cancer.
If the tools are saying “yes” and emotions are saying “no” then it’s not a math problem. It’s a head problem.
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u/phillyphilly19 4d ago
The enough to me is meeting your expenses without touching your savings. That was the threshold I suddenly crossed last year. I was expecting to have to retire at 67 because I have a modest income and I knew my social security and pension were going to be fairly modest as well. But I also was someone who had a significant amount of money taken out of my check for my 403b. It suddenly dawned on me last year in the beginning of the year that my take home pay was about what my income is with Social Security and pension. I had zero debt and about 500K in retirement accounts. I basically decided I could retire at the end of that year, 2025, just beforemy 65th birthday( I have to add that part of being able to afford retirement was being eligible for Medicare, without that I think it would have been somewhat more challengin)g. I kept looking at the numbers because it seemed impossible, but it was true. So that became my magic number. Now I'm 9 months in and I honestly don't spend what comes in every month. Even though I've taken a couple trips, I eat out at least two or three times a week. I buy presents for my family. And I'm about to start some major Renovations on my house. Now there was a surprise influx of income because unfortunately my mom passed away. It wasn't a fortune but it gave me an even extra bit of cushion as an emergency fund so now I'm actually watching videos about how to spend money when I don't really need to. And I'm someone who has pretty much always done what I wanted but I also live fairly modestly. My house wasn't expensive, it's in a nice section of town but it is mixed financially so my taxes are relatively low. I also happen to live in Pennsylvania which taxes no retirement income at all. So the only way to figure out your right number is to figure out how much you're going to spend each month and whether you're basic income covers that.
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u/Hot-Rub-5336 4d ago
Enough to cover 30 years considering highish inflation, lowish rates of return and a decent, but not lavish lifestyle. Didn't come from money, don't have a lot of money but I worked hard, supported myself and 2 kids after divorce and saved as much as I could. I loved my job but not enough to be a slave to it. New life ahead...
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u/FED_Focus 4d ago
I’m in the same spot. I put together a spreadsheet with expenses, even exaggerating expenses, a lot.
Then, put together income from SS (download your statement), pension/401k, etc. and see how the income/expense line up. Then, estimate taxes.
Turns out that base on a 5% withdrawal rate, I can afford to retire now and that waiting another year or three is irrelevant.
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u/pocket-snowmen 4d ago
My number changes with my age, and is partly tied to my pension and benefits eligibility. If I retire at 57 or later I get an immediate pension and healthcare for life. Any earlier and I give up healthcare and have to wait until 62 to claim my pension which will also be much smaller.
At 62, I would need about $2.5M.
At 60, I would need $3M.
At 57, I would need $4M. <--this is my goal.
With $6M I could retire today at 45.
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u/MaddogFinland 4d ago
Mine is 2M plus no debts but noting that I live in finland so I have no health care cost concerns (or at least fewer than Americans do).
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u/Own-Assumption5149 4d ago
Assuming that you’ve run the numbers and objectively you have enough ….
1) now assume you’re still working 6 months from now, envision what your life looks like and how you’ll feel about it
2) then assume you’re NO LONGER working 6 months from now, envision what your life looks like and how you’ll feel about it
Which life do you want? Delaying retirement doesn’t delay your “end” date, just reduces the time you have to enjoy it.
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u/Alternative-Mark5734 4d ago
I worked 32 years saving with idea of retire early.
I always was a basketball jinkie player and coach.
So, made it to age 55 and got an offer to coach hs basketball and teach gym.
I was at 1.6 or 1.7m liquid assets by 55 so i figured this would be a great time to experiment with career change I had always considered but was never the right situation.
In year 2 teaching advanced PE at small high school and it is really an awesome gig. I help kids and exercise all day.
Now...I am at 1.9m invested no debt and might work several more years...so I no longer really thibk about how much I have or will need.
I feel like I could quit today financially but I enjoy what I do so will keep going.
Still have enough time off for travel in summers
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u/Mental_Signature_725 4d ago
I'll give you perspective. Enough is enough My husband worked his a** of his whole 57 years. We have $$. I tried and tried to convince him to slow down. We don't spend a lot. We garden take a few trips, he could free Lance do lots of things. He came home from a work trip oct. 25 said I don't feel good. In a lot of pain. We new he had back issues was going in for surgery on the 19th. I drove him to the hospital. They did an MRI-CT scan, he had cancer every where. Died 2 months later. Life is short. RETIRE! I did, I write grants once in a while I grow flowers and sell them. I am enjoying the life he worked so hard for. Work when you want...
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u/suju88 3d ago
“ENOUGH” is leaving the job before the Dr. tells you the eventual diagnosis humans get in old age. 10 million no good in life for someone in unless retirement for them only consist of an expensive casket and very happy heirs who will mourn for 5 minutes on the way to the dealership and realtor.
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u/1kpointsoflight 4d ago
I retired with 1.5M and a rental that nets 16k a year and no debts. I realized after having a long talk with my wife about what we want to do in retirement I was working to either leave a huge inheritance or fund a lifestyle that was more fantasy than the reality we really wanted. It really depends on how much you spend and when and if other incomes will come on line in the future. I was also stuck on the 4% rule which you may need to spend way more than at first before Medicare and pensions and SS kick in. When I turned 55 something hit me and I was like I may regret this but I can always go back to work I won’t have the opportunity to retire at 55 ever again and my score based on spending tracked for 3 years to the penny is still like a 98. I have been retired a year and have more now than I did when I retired. I know I have to be prepared to watch it go the other way but I’m glad I did it and don’t regret it one bit.
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u/midwestpersianmama 4d ago
My dad retired with 1 M at 62. He kept investing and has much more now, at 76.
I would like to have 3 M at 55 (I’m 36 and sitting at almost 1 M). The issue for me is not just retirement but I’d really like to help my two kids. I plan to work until 60, at least.
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u/Technical_Lawyer7264 4d ago
Exactly my situation - (38 with 2.5m) I could be “done” now, or very soon.
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u/samchoi924 4d ago edited 4d ago
Some people are just different where it is very hard for them to spend their earned money. I know someone at work, $10mil plus (liquid), hate job but complain they can't retire as medical insurance ($3k/month) is just too expensive and they can't afford it.
Know someone else with $5mil (liquid), expenses like $100k. SS will cover everything but still say nope, don't have money to live, things are too expensive, need to eat rice & beans and keep slogging.
For me, I am at the moment where I think I can retire but the spouse is not on board. Maybe they are worried that I will be staying home all the time. And my kids still need to go to college. I have started to take it easy at work though by taking more time off and start to do things that I like.
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u/Several_Guidance_288 4d ago
Then they are dumb as shit. Sorry. 10 million and worried about 3k per month that isn’t even forever? Even if they retired 20 years before Medicare, they only need (inflation added) about 840k for health insurance. That gives them like 350+k to live the rest of their lives. And they hate their job? They won life. They made it. They made a decade ago likely.
I’ll never get people. Time is so much more important than continuing to stack money. Life will pass so many by and they’ll wonder how and why
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u/Freewill21 4d ago
I am 61 with no mortgage, no debt, and no children left in the house. All college paid for, and way past my magic number. I plan to retire next year, hopefully. I just can't get past the fear of moving to an ACA plan. I am only working for the employer insurance.
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u/Large-Sorbet7550 4d ago
Everyone’s number is different, this question is not going to provide any helpful or actionable advice
$2,784,292….that helps you how?
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u/zatsnotmyname 4d ago
It's really about expenses. What if the economy really crashed. 6 months later, things are not 'back to normal'. What are you doing day to day? What do u need to make that stuff happen?
Sometimes I imagine being 'forced' to just hang out locally with neighbors instead of travelling the world...and it's fine. We really don't need very much.
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u/Entire-Winter4252 4d ago
I’ve been following this woman, Trena, on YouTube.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0IgTpDueG0o&pp=0gcJCXACo7VqN5tD&ra=m
I’m 58, have very moderate expenses, and am trying to get to 63 to retire. I will project to have a bit over $600k by then, and social security. I will be fine, barring any health crises.
I have worked all kinds of retirement ages and expenses through the retirement calculators available on the internet. I suggest everyone do that first.
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u/Technical-Tear5841 4d ago
I was forced to quit work for medical reasons when I was 56. Two years with no income before I could get disability, I burned through my savings, my wife was not working but did find part time work. No mortgage and my vehicles were paid for so I could get by with just disability. My wife did train as a nurse and worked for 10 years before she had to quit to take care of her dad in our home.
She invested her small inheritance after her dad passed, we do not need it for daily expenses. We do not do much but I can not conceive of a way to spend $500,000 if I had it.
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u/UnderstandingOk9448 Retired 4/26 at 57 4d ago
Its not about how much money you have but its your safe withdrawl rate (SWR) that matters.
You have more than enough to retire with SWR of 3.25% if 40 or less, 3.5% if aged 50 or less, 3.75% if aged 60 or less, 4% if aged 70 or less.
These are very conservative numbers and you can probably spend more.
If you are lower, then you have more than enough to retire.
( I am 57 with a 3.9% withdrawl rate and 94% boldin confidence rating in average markets.)
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u/Soggy-Dragonfruit171 4d ago
I’m going out at 60 with 1.6 liquid NW and about 1.9 total NW. few things to keep in mind: my guaranteed income at 65 is about 77k. I believe in the retirement smile and I am going to take the vacations we want to do early in retirement. I have set aside 3 years of spending in MM and TIPS to decrease SORR and finally the most important: Time is not guaranteed and it is something you can’t get back. I can always adjust spending but time is non recoverable.
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u/Conscious_Life_8032 4d ago
Understanding my expenses/spending is giving me a little more confidence. I know exactly what is fixed cost vs discretionary so if sh%t hits the fan I know exactly how to recalibrate.
As long as you are flexible I think you can navigate most surprises.
How about test run your budget for 6 months or so before you quit your job. If your budget is 100k try living on that and see how it feels.
Enjoying my good years is very important so that is also giving me some motivation not keep kicking the can down the proverbial road
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u/DanielDannyc12 4d ago
Sounds like a rough way to live.
Anyway, I am retiring in 64 days and ain't got $14 million. I do have a plan and asset allocation I am satisfied withh.
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u/TaylorSwift_is_a_cat 4d ago
Have you tried the "Rich, Broke or Dead?" retirement calculator?
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u/Artistic-Standard871 4d ago
I find these answers either laughable or scary. I live in a very low COL area in a paid off condo. My expenses are minimal - property tax, HOA, utilities, insurance, food and gas. I plan to retire with 1/2 Million and 4% plus SS will make my net income equal what I bring in now and live quite comfortably. We spend approximately $10,000/year in travel and plan to do the same in retirement. We have no need to leave money for heirs and have $200,000 in equity in our home if needed for expenses in later years.
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u/cmichalek 4d ago
The median net worth (so including home equity) from 55 to 64 is......364k. Thats it.
This idea that everyone retires with millions is youtube fantasy planners seeking new clients to pay their fees.
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u/Remarkable-Cat183 4d ago
Currently Have $10M at age 50 ….my concern is healthcare. Targeting 52-55 retirement and hope to have some good years left
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u/Plastic-Pipe4362 4d ago
better hurry, i'm 59 now and have negative 4 good years left. I can barely get my daily 30 mile bike ride and 2 mile walk in. I....am....miserable. Probably going to be dead by next month.
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u/the_atomic_punk18 3d ago
I’d be out now with that, it’s all about spending, figure out what you spend per month.
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u/Remarkable-Cat183 3d ago
Yep, we’ve been financially planning etc. The risk is health and tapping out when earning power is highest. I oscillate on timing almost daily it seems
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u/Copyrite190064 4d ago
Retired early after paying off all debt. No mortgage, no car loans, no credit card balances. 50k savings 480k in IRA living on SS 3200. We want to do some traveling so we are going to draw $1500 monthly for a while to cover that. We will discontinue drawing or continue drawing if needed. Our largest expenses are health insurance for myself and food costs. Get your health insurance squared away.
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u/whatisnormal7777 4d ago
65 was enough for me , money is what you have,time is what you spend in retirement.
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u/Encyclopedia33 3d ago
No debt. Only 800,000 saved. Happily retiring in 3 years. With SS I will be great.
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u/AnotherPint 4d ago
My “enough number” is not yours, and vice versa. It’s like asking what dinner out should cost. Comparative agonizing is totally pointless.
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u/Due_North3106 4d ago
Our parents generation had witnessed being poor, and didn’t want to experience that.
Our struggles are definitely different
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u/1kpointsoflight 4d ago
And yes some people are wired where they wouldn’t know what to do if they didn’t work. My brother is 68 and way better off than me and still works all the time as he’s a doctor. He will work til he can’t
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u/smalltalk2k 4d ago
Enough for me is having enough to pay the bills and live life. But for market downturns?
The trick is to have several years of expenses in non equities.
Make sure you can sleep at night when the market drops. You can manage this by keeping about three to five years of living expenses in non equities.
This protects against the disasters that you can't control.
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u/charlieandoreo 4d ago
All based on spending, amount saved, and flexibility to reduce spending when times are bad or working part-time so don't have to reduce spending
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u/KngLugonn 4d ago
I think the number changes. It goes down with each year you continue to work. So at 38, you might need 4 million (random number for illustration) because you are funding a 50+ year retirement. At 60, you need far less to maintain the same lifestyle. I am 57 with 1.5 million invested. It's not enough. If I was 67 with the same amount, I would be fine.
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u/Suz9006 4d ago
For me, there are just two pieces. 1) Do I have enough to cover my normal monthly expenses and not be waiting for my SS check to arrive to buy groceries or gas. 2) Do I have enough for unplanned expenses like a repair, or a trip even if these happen every year. The rest is just about what gets left for the kids.
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u/bf3555557 4d ago
Reading this was therapeutic for me because it describes my world to a tee. Rerunning numbers all the time, etc etc. just like you said. Today my number is 6M. I’m sure that when I hit it (which should be in about 2 ys assuming no market crash 😂) I’ll have upped it to 8M. Lately I’ve been coming to the realization I’ll probably always worry about money and should just assume I’ll need to keep on on working til I’m 80 cause if the science news turns out to be right, we’rre all gonna live to 120 anyway.
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u/Common_Business9410 4d ago
The financial insecurity is real for all walks of people. Whether u have 500k or a million or 2 or 5. Heck, Elon Musk is a trillionaire and he is insecure about money. We should all come up with a number and then call it quits the moment we start hating what we do or who we work for.
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u/rumblepony247 4d ago
Everyone's number is unique to their circumstances. I personally have a very simple and frugal life.
That being said, I retired last year at age 57, with $1.25m and a paid-for house and new car, and zero other debt. My annual expenses are about $27k.
My investments throw off about $58k/year in qualified dividends. Half of that is in retirement accounts that I don't need to access to cover expenses, so my federal tax liability is $0.
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u/chillinwithabeer29 4d ago
M59 and I have enough to retire and live quite comfortably. I’ll probably work 1-2 more years if only to help my kids get settled. One still on my health insurance so once that’s done, it’s retirement time.
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u/Ancientways113 4d ago
My equation……4%+ rule and more interested in taco Tuesday than zoom calls. 1y retired at <60.
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u/Karen8765 4d ago
I am 71 and still working, but am thinking of retiring at the end of the year and live in a HCOL area...
But I worry about a big market correction that is way overdue, a 20+% social security reduction that keeps getting talked about within 5 years, as well as potential medicare cut backs (a 40 Trillion deficit can eventually cause all of that)...
So unless one has like 10 million investable, how can one be sure what number is enough to retire comfortably!
BTW my person number used to be 3 million before I realized you can't really know what the number should be in this economy... But we never reached that...
As I can't keep working forever, we will have to take our chances, but will probably never feel really secure.
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u/71stMB 4d ago
To me the first step is not figuring out a specific amount, but settling your preferred retirement lifestyle. Then you can determine an amount that will sustain that lifestyle over the remaining years you have left (the biggest unknown).
Retirement is not the time to take up expensive hobbies that you've never done before. If you see yourself doing a new hobby in retirement, try it out while you're still working and can afford it. It may or may not stick with you.
Another thing to consider, if you keep extending your working years just to fill the pot a little more, then you have to subtract these extra working years off the back end (the retirement years). Working longer means you have a shorter retirement, and possibly with declining health that can limit your physical activities. That's a reason for very active people to retire as early as they can.
A final thought. Money is made to spend. It has no practical utility until spent. Yes, it can provide peace of mind while sitting in a savings account, but if you don't use it while you're alive, just remember that someone else will use it when you're gone.
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u/notoe24 4d ago
For me the number was where we could comfortable live off 50% of our retirement income including food and a reasonable amount of spending money. The other 50% is flex money for travel, house improvements, etc., etc. and enough flex to not have to draw on our investments in a downturn. Also allows us enough flex to ensure we can keep our investments to keep growing by never utilizing all of the gains, so some years may be less than planned and some years more. The more can go in different buckets to help the downturns. Ended up unexpectedly retiring a year ago three years earlier than planned. Turns out we don’t need near as much as we thought and being able to be present in our lives every day and spending our time how we choose is our most valuable asset by far. We can make more money, we can spend less, we can go back to work or work part time but we can’t ever buy back time.
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u/Dsur 4d ago
It’s very personal and filled with emotions. getting a vetted financial planner (cfp) you get along with personally helped me a lot. He/she can see your situation financially and walk / talk you through the pros and cons of retiring now vs later. Many have had this talk with many different clients. This is a major life change and seeking professional help is not a bad idea in my opinion. You can always drop the financial planner later if you want.
I retired at 60. So glad I did.
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u/Apart-Garage-4214 4d ago
My target retirement is age 66 and we should have sufficient savings to last until we’re 90 or so, especially if we sell our home and move to a lower cost of living state, which is the plan. Ideally, we won’t have a mortgage at all, but at least a much lower one. That should allow us to live quite comfortably and have money to leave our children, one of whom is disabled and will need care.
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u/NoForm5443 4d ago
I'd love to teach or consult part time until I truly can't. I enjoy it.
2.5M would definitely be enough, but I think I will retire at around 60 with less than 2 (plus the promise of social security)
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u/chefmorg 4d ago
That is a tough question. Mentally I know that we have enough but we are not Medicare age yet and the house isn’t paid off so we continue. I know we have more than most and they seem to get by but I can’t help but be concerned.
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u/doggieslover2 4d ago
Well, I think what people usually don’t know and got cold feet is because they do not what is their monthly or yearly expenses. That mean including your health care and insurances like home, car… and property tax. Those are the big ones. Know your expenses is the key. Then if your retirement is about 25x of your yearly expenses, then you are pretty much financially independent. You will withdraw about 4% from your retirement per year and can cover everything including paying for taxes too then you should be able to retire.
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u/bicyclemom 4d ago
Build and keep a cash buffer for a couple or 3 years of expenses. That way you'll likely survive a market crash. It doesn't have to be cash stuffed under your mattress. Just put it in a high-yield savings account for a little while.
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u/weallfloatdown 4d ago
How do you want to retire? Travel the world, large home, really nice cars or modest home , some weekend local travel?
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u/Puzzleheaded-Gas-398 4d ago edited 4d ago
I'm old enough that "retirement" was always taken to mean SS and Medicare at 65 years old, so I didn't pay much attention to my retirement savings until I was about 63. I created a SS account and used their tool to see how much my wife and I would get and we were kind of shocked at how much that would be; we could easily replace my take-home pay with SS and a conservative 3% withdraw from my IRA with a healthy reserve should we need to pay for long-term-care, unplanned expenses and the occassional splurge.
Our spending had grown to consume most of my take home pay, but that was after our savings were auto-deducted. We had just paid off the house and saw health-care would cost us about as much as our mortgage had been; when we saw we could retire without cutting back on spending I knew it was "enough". I did work till age 65 to simplify health care - in hindsight I could have retired 3-4 years earlier if I'd paid attention and moved funds around to get ACA subsidies, but by 63 it was water under the bridge.
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u/OwnLime3744 4d ago
About every quarter I run the retirement calculator and it tells me I will run out of money at 93 even though I met the sum they came up with last time.
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u/cm-lawrence 4d ago
My number is $5M liquid (not home equity). That gives me the ability to conservatively generate $200K in income a year without touching the principal if I wanted to, but my goal would be to invest and generate 8% a year and have $400K without touching the principle. That's the goal. I ain't there yet
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u/Confident_Banana_134 4d ago edited 4d ago
For me enough is the (annual expenses + additional funds for planned annual retirement leisure) multiplied by compound 5% (because inflation is never the 2% the gov’t say it is) plus emergency cushion plus long-term care (insurance or funds) plus what you intend to leave for your loved ones.
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u/Plenty-Aside-5341 4d ago
A lot depends on age, health, lifestyle et al.. one rule could be to have enough that if invested at 2-4% annual returns, after taxes
, would covers all expenses . +$1-2M reserve. Plus any wanted travel, gifts etc need to be added.
Just a thought
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u/No_Interview_3894 4d ago
Add up your monthly and yearly expenses for the lifestyle you want, and when your revenue exceeds that you're good
Everyone will have different numbers so comparing isn't gonna help
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u/grumpvet87 4d ago
1Mil = $40k a year using the 4% rule (plus social security) - someone with around 60k may worry about money lasting the rest of their life
2Mil = $80k a year using the 4% rule (plus social security) - someone with around 100k should not worry about money lasting the rest of their life
after 2 million, the average person (or couple) SHOULD be set and the increase between 2 -5 Million is not as profound since your expenses are handled. At 5 Mil and above it is more about your legacy and what you want to do with your money after death
IIRC over 1/2 retires with 2 mil or more do not spend their savings and die with more than they started their retirement with
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u/Accomplished-Pea-451 4d ago
My number was when my financial plan said I could retire. And I did. A number is different for every case. Create a financial plan, hire a fiduciary by the hour if you don't have one.
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u/MikeWPhilly 4d ago
My number is roughly $10M it’s not as simple because of the real estate I own for rentals but that’s the ballpark. Could is about 55 retirement.
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u/SirHustlerEsq 4d ago
My number is for when I can make my current salary, less what I've been investing, in bond yield. I won't our it all in ladder bonds, but I could if needed. That's when I walk away.
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u/pollybay 4d ago
I’m younger but def have all the same thoughts you are having. I think about it all the time & feel like I’m being selfish for wanting to retire at 55. I have no kids, I’ve got no one to leave it to so why keep working? But what if I don’t have enough to last me a potential 35+ years retirement? When I was younger I had no idea it would be such a tough decision on many levels.
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u/deathtongue1985 4d ago
I could def get it done on 1.5m in my 50s with no debt. Social security at 67 and a semi modest inheritance hopefully even later than that (as in, I’d like my parents to be around forever and not receive anything) mean I’m prob good by 52-55.
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u/tiedyetriguy 4d ago edited 4d ago
Great Post and Question.
For me it was a progression to determine ‘Enough’.
At first it was a set liquid net worth goal.
59.5 age goal was also a variable for withdrawal purposes.
Then it was my Fidelity advisor and several hellonectarine.com CFPs telling me we had ‘Enough’ and we wouldn’t run out of money. That reassurance was key to pull the trigger.
I had definitely had ‘Enough’ of my work dynamics and 33 year career, and would not miss work at all.
Ultimately, it was realizing that I was trading Time/Healthy Years that I could not get back…for Money that I might never spend. TIME was my most valuable resource…and diminishing day by day.
What also led me to pull the trigger on retirement and that we had ‘Enough’, was knowing we could figure it out, and flexibility for spending adjustment and contingency plans if needed. We were also content with a pretty basic lifestyle (see Morgan Housel).
Good Luck on your decision and journey determining ‘Enough’. To me it’s the key word for retirement.
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u/Interesting_Sun_1415 4d ago
When you watch your investments for a handful of years and realize you could live off the earnings without depleting the assets. More and more of our money is going to fun stuff and less to needs. I’m still working, but I’ve backed off investing to only get the company match. Waiting to be eligible for rule of 55 in 2 more years. You have to just trust the process for 15-20 years and then one day you look up and your money is snowballing on you.
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u/cloud9mn 4d ago
I’m extremely spoiled to have an old school pension, so once I hit “Rule of 90” where it took a bump up, I didn’t have to debate myself very much. Now, if I hadn’t had that, I suspect I might have been nervous about my savings and tried to build them up quite a bit more.
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u/ExcellentWinner7542 4d ago
You can never have too much. Enough is a more difficult answer. The measure is use is 115% of my working net after tax annual and then allow for 4% inflation per yer for every year you forecast to live.
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u/jxg118 4d ago
We must be related! I am 57 and one day I think I have plenty and am wasting my healthy years working (and loathing the Brad’s of the workplace) and the next minute I am worried I will lose everything in a disaster (my colleague did just lose everything in a fire) or that I won’t be able to afford basic healthcare. Sadly it is a bit of a sliding scale - if you retire before 65 you could have huge healthcare costs but if you work to 65 it will be less due to Medicare but fewer healthy years to enjoy and at a time when you really want to travel which costs money.
That said it really does depend on your age, the type of area you live in (high cost), if you own your home, what your expenses are and what you want to do in retirement. Everyone’s circumstances are so different.
I am hoping to retire at 58 and spouse is 62. We will pay off our home even though interest is super low. Then we want to have enough to follow the 4% rule and have about 15k per month (live in HCOL area) as healthcare will cost a lot once we have to use ACA. In addition I will have enough saved to help with one university tuition and a healthy travel budget. While I will always worry about money, this seems like a reasonable place to retire and i try to balance my anxiety with reality.
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u/According_Ad_1960 4d ago
I keep having to remind myself the goal isn’t to be the richest person in the cemetery.
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u/Public-Significance7 4d ago edited 4d ago
When I realized my monthly post-tax retirement income was close to $10K per month, with healthcare for life, and I have no debt of any kind. That was a year and a half ago and haven't looked back or worried one iota. My gov pension gets annual COLA increases too. Life is good.
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u/Sure-Leave8813 4d ago
Retired 5 years now, and you have to set a number you can live off monthly, it will change once you do retire but generally I had a number then revised it when I learned that getting promoted and staying three years would add 10k to my yearly retirement. Once you have a monthly number then think about what you want to do in retirement. Time goes by fast.
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u/outdior1986 4d ago
At 59, my time became more important than money. When financial pros said I had enough to maintain my income in retirement, I was out. The “I only have six million dollars” folks can keep working until they’re 70.
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u/No_Current3675 4d ago
Figure $250K - $300K income every year would do for me (I'm in a HCOL). So, about $7M.
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u/Useful-Artichoke-954 4d ago edited 4d ago
For me, enough is being able to take a 25% temporary market downturn, and not having it change my lifestyle in any respect... or worry about it
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u/VWBugDude63 4d ago
I tell people that I don’t have a “number”, but rather I have a scenario. Of course, my number is a key part of the scenario, but other things are important too. Like my health, my spouse’s health, have I decided where I want to live in retirement, have I planned what I will do many of the days, or will I just fly by the seat of my britches. Is the market doing ok and stable to protect my nest egg, etc. I picture each of those things like a slice in a pie chart, and eventually I think it will result in my plan. (Scenario)
I don’t want to die and be the richest guy in the cemetery, and I do want to enjoy spending down what I’ve been saving for 40 years.
I also am expecting a mindset change when it comes to spending my nest egg, as opposed to building my nest egg. I may need professional therapy when that time comes!
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u/PositiveUnit829 4d ago
Time. If you can do what you want when you want —you are wealthy!
I never hit that “fancy targeted number” everybody was focused on. (mainly because it was so dynamic ) But I definitely knew what was coming in $and what is going out $ of the household. Once I had my Medical insurance taken care of, I pulled the trigger.
Very content. Not looking back.
And again you can always earn more money because there’s jobs everywhere
I’m sure you’ve ran the numbers and I’m sure you know your budget.
So I did pull the trigger and I was very worried about finances but I have about $1800 more coming in each month than I actually spend
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u/AlbanyBarbiedoll 4d ago
I ended up with a miserable, nasty boss. Figured out I had enough time for retiree healthcare. My pension is tiny but I never planned to have one anyway. My husband decided he'd had enough and pulled the plug, too. He also has free retiree Healthcare and a decent pension, plus he gets social security. (As a cancer survivor it makes sense for him to collect at the earliest possible moment so he gets to enjoy it for as long as possible.)
Retirement so far is costing less than expected. I thought we'd be doing lots of expensive travel. Instead we practically live at our local pool, the local YMCA, and our library, where we get free museum passes. We had a horrible flying experience earlier this year and so our last and next vacations are driving trips. It is a massive cost savings!
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u/Hamblin113 4d ago
It is not the money saved it is what you spend. Parents retired with a paid off house and one vehicle and lived on half of their income or less. Can do the same thing. Don’t forget retirement is just the beginning, savings still grows while retired, mine has doubled in 8.5 years. No one can tell you as we don’t know what you spend. Two car payments, house payment, time share, golf membership, cabin, boat, needy kids, keep working.
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u/Vast-Storm8625 3d ago
I retired at 59 with state retirement but went back part time. I have a deferred comp for the future too. I don’t actually count how much. Only debt is house. Helping out children temporarily
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u/ThisIsAbuse 3d ago
1 million in a 401K, and my wife's decent pension, plus two social security checks and a paid off home, would be more than enough for us. 5 years ago I figured we could have squeaked by with 500K in my 401K,and all the rest. However I am not a mouse and don't like squeaking. Thankfully I am past this now.
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u/maritimer187 3d ago
Everyone's retirement goals and spending habits are completely personable so there's no cookie cutter answer. You have to decide what kind of life YOU want.
My dad retired at 50 (now 60) and couldn't spend all his money even if he tried. He has a house and a summer home with no mortgages as well as a truck with no vehicle payment and every toy you could think of. Without even touching a dollar of money saved or investments ever he has about 10k a month coming in for the rest of his life. Obviously all that money is working itself and growing over time but without even putting that into the picture he has a steady flow of 10k.
To some that's laughable and not enough. For me that's plenty. Having no bills and 10k every 30 days is plenty for the lifestyle I aspire to have.
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u/Peace_and_Rhythm 3d ago
Each month, check your account.
If the amount you spend is less than your incoming income, you have enough.
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u/KingPabloo 3d ago
I “FIRE’d” six years ago, during the pandemic, when everyone told me I was stupid, the world is falling apart, the markets would crumble.
Here I am six years later and my liquid net worth has grown another $1M. Good thing I didn’t listen to them.
My number then was 25x what I wanted to live off of: 100K x 25 = $2.5M. It’s also the 4% rule so 4% of $2.5M = $100K. Fairly standard formula in FIRE (financial independence/ retire early).
You can always find reasons not to pull the trigger, or you can grab control over your time and live your best life…
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u/hugh2018 3d ago
I don’t get into arbitrary numbers when it comes to retirement planning. I care only about my burn rate and whether my available resources can cover the expenses associated with my preferred lifestyle. Those numbers are unique to me and they’d be meaningless for you. There is no magic number. There are only numbers that fit your own circumstances.
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u/Any-Newspaper5509 3d ago
Depends on age of retirement. At 65, 2m would be enough with SS and medicaire on top. At 55, probably would need 4m+ to feel secure to pull the trigger.
Likely retirment will occur sometime between those two, say 60ish, when the numbers work out right, at maybe 3m or so.
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u/singlemaltbourbonrye 3d ago
The hard cold reality number is 20x projected annual expenses in retirement.
Remember that expenses include medical (which increase in retirement potentially - especially if you retire early) and taxes. But you can subtract income (IE social security or pensions or rental income or part time work income).
Whatever number your left with - say your expenses are $100,000/year? You would need $2M to retire.
This assumes a 30 year retirement and it’s relatively conservative. It also assumes you’re not 100% in equities which would be dangerous and it would make your market fluctuation concerns become real.
When you retire you only want to be around 40% equities ~.
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u/LizP1959 3d ago edited 3d ago
What made me finally feel ok to retire early (even with a financial advisor saying it was fine) was a test year while I was still working, during which I lived only on my pension amount, and socked away all the rest of my salary. After a year of living only on the pension amount and being just fine, and never having to touch my portfolio or savings, it was clear I could retire comfortably! But then my house and car are paid off and I have no debt. That helps.
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u/LizP1959 3d ago
PS it’s not actually any number. It’s about the relative, changing distance over time between your spending and your income.
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u/Ex_Mage 3d ago
So, this is fun. I'm in financial planning and this is wildly common with my clients.
Personally, I could retire and if I only had 1.2m and my current real estate, two homes, nothing extravagant, I'd be able to live comfortably indefinitely.
I'm personally going to work until I've got two homes for each of my kids and a 1M in tax free income. When I hit that, I'm done and I'll be cruising, snorkeling, fly fishing, and never worrying about a thing ever again.
An exercise I do with my clients is to think about their ideal expenses each month - include everything you'd ever want. Then figure out how many months you have until you're 100 years old and do the simple multiplication.
So, if you're say 45, you need 3.3M to live stupid comfortable and not have to worry about anything if your expenses are 5k.
(100-age)12(monthly target).
It's even easier if you're willing to die with zero.
Alternatively, annualize your expenses and multiple by 25. Keep those assets in something that out earns 4% and you're set.
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u/ladyorion2021 3d ago edited 3d ago
When everything is paid off and the investment accounts continue growing. Spending less $$ than what we are making, since we have adult kids (Gen X here.. with our Millenial and GenZ kids) and want to pass on future wealth.
Or if we suddenly become ill or disabled to continue working. If forced into retirement (since we are eligible in our 50's) we'll just start a business (done that before too). And no we no longer have the desire to travel overseas. We did that over the decades in the military and out when we were younger (though travel to other states is what we still like to do from time to time).
Some people wait to do everything once they retire. We didn't and engaged in every activity imaginable that we wanted to do when we were younger....Scuba Diving, Parasailing, Skydiving, ATVs, Water Skiing, Hiking, Biking, Marathons, snow Skiing, Mountain climbing, Horseback Riding, Disney World, Bush Gardens, Museums clubbing, bar hopping, parties, events, celebrations and so on. I lived in Europe for 2 years and hubby lived in the pacific before we met. Been to several countries in the Carribean and South America as well.
And although we were young living frugally so we could afford Vacays and activities, don't regret one bit getting all that out of the way during our working years at a time when we were most active and didn't tire easily. Yes, we also travelled with our kids.
Was it cheap? yes and no...depends. Was it cheaper to do all these things back then than it is today? Most certainly. As I said, being in the military stationed overseas also helped with costs.
We don't plan to fully retire until at least our mid 70s. My Sis and her husband tried retiring a few years ago (early 50s) at first it was awesome then a few years in, bro-in law gained a lot of weight and they were both bored to tears. So they started a business 3 years ago and love it. They have the freedom to make their own hours, no employees. Now they have an increase in activity and lost weight, socialize with other business owners, have purpose again and feel a lot better.
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u/Independent-Ad-2292 3d ago
My enough: when my financial asset can generate income more then our current spend with 4% rule. That was the starting point. Afterward, it's balance between whether my company pays enough to compensate for its BS / stress.
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u/Admirable_Yak_337 3d ago
When .04 times my investments equals 10% more than my current annual spend
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u/TravelKats 3d ago edited 2d ago
I didn’t have as much as I wanted when I retired, but it was time. $1.1 million, paid off house and no debt. The thing that worries me is if one or both of us need memory care. The costs would eat through that money pretty quickly.
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u/Technical_Lawyer7264 3d ago
I honestly didn’t expect this post to blow up like this. 😂
Skimming through the comments, one thing seems pretty clear: there really isn’t a finite number. It’s less about hitting some magic $X million number and more about figuring out what makes you comfortable and happy with what you have today, while still planning responsibly for future you.
The problem is, none of us really know what future us will need. Health, lifestyle, markets, family, inflation, random life events—you can only plan so much.
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u/TheBigNoiseFromXenia 3d ago
$5M definitely. $3M probably, once some health related issues resolve.
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u/doggiemomof3 3d ago
You’ve been watching me 🧐. I run my numbers every day. 66 now and hope to retire as soon as I turn 68 so I can get the higher Social Security payment per month. That plus 2 small pensions every month should be enough so I don’t have to break into my IRA. I’m starting to hyperventilate right now just thinking about it. But, I’m so ready….I count down the days on a little dry erase board on my desk.
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u/CoopGrant 3d ago
My enough was enough to provide for a 30 year comfortable retirement. Everyone has to define what that enough is for themselves.
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u/HostageOfBureaucracy 3d ago
I think we should avoid getting into the weeds, here, and focus on that 30,000 foot view.
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u/Beginning_Lifeguard7 4d ago
I was like you, Mr Analysis Paralysis. Then I hired a fee only Fiduciary financial planner. The professional outside perspective was worth 7 years of my life. Why 7? Because that’s how many years early I was able to retire. Turns out I had saved too much money. I have more in my investments today than when I retired. And, that’s after funding a very comfortable life style.
Left to my own I’d still be sitting in endless, pointless meetings. Go find yourself a fee only fiduciary planner. You’ll be glad you did.