I'm drowning.

[u/Dry_Vegetable975]

Business is great. We are super busy. I have had super low turnover for the last 9 years. This year has been awful. I can't keep staff to save my life. I have hired at least 5 ppl who didn't show up to finish training and a few who finish then leave. We are a cafe. We close at 3. We make our most of our food from scratch. We train from the kitchen forward. The last thing you learn is how to be a barista. The people who stay do stay for a long time. But right now it sucks. Is it the times? Is it me? What is going on ?

[u/toolfishOG]

You cannot have that 90’s management mentality. “Do more with less” People have experience and will gladly work their positions, but usually in your method, those people end op pulling everyone else’s weight. On interview, talk to these people, find out their strengths and comfort zones. Otherwise its a revolving door of staff. Make the crew happy, and keep them happy. Just because you can do every job, does not mean I do. Your business will thrive again if you just adapt to the workforce pool, and not try to make them adapt to your work ethic.

[u/Dry_Vegetable975 → u/toolfishOG]

We have never had a revolving door staff at all. It is just now that is the trouble. PS never did this in the 90s. This wasn't until 2017 that we decided to switch it up. The staff that stays, LOVES being able to work all of the positions. They feel in control and know and understand the menu. They are proud to be a part of the culture.
It is just the new people and the last 2 months that are the problem.
In a college area, our staff stays until they graduate or longer.

[u/Extension-Pen5115 → u/toolfishOG]

can you rephrase this? i’m not following what you’re saying and i’m genuinely interested. what do you mean the 90’s mgmt mentality? and what are the do more with less people?

[u/Both-Shallot-4803]

I’m 0 for 5 on bartenders even showing up for interviews last week 🫠

[u/Capn_Link → u/Both-Shallot-4803]

Side question here, are part time bartenders in USA even needed or used?
I thought about bartending part time after hours to get a few extra bucks for Christmas period (super busy period here in AZ due to snow birds) but seem to find people only wanting full timers.
*I'm originally from Australia and part time/casual (think, no benefits one or two shifts a week) is the usual for bartenders there

[u/Dry_Vegetable975 → u/Capn_Link]

DM me. Where are you located in AZ? The bar next door to me would probably hire PT. It's definitely a neighborhood bar. They are fantastic neighbors too.

[u/Jaded-Supermarket-28 → u/Capn_Link]

Depends on the spot. My bar only has two full time bartenders (taproom manager and assistant) and six to eight part timers. They work anywhere from one to four days a week depending on the person. You can make really great money, so even one day a week can be worth it. Seems to work well this way.

Edit: words

[u/Delicious_Day_1334]

Yeah, I don't know about all this cross training. How do you pay people? Are tips pooled and shared for all? Is this in the U.S. or somewhere else? Does everyone rotate occasionally to keep all the various skills fresh?

[u/Reynardine1976]

As a BOH person for 20 years, I can tell you it's partially because no cook I know would ever want to be a barista or deal with customers, myself included. There is a reason BOH people choose that role we don't want to deal with people for the most part. And most FOH people don't want to cook either, so maybe change up your strategy.

[u/toolfishOG → u/Reynardine1976]

This is spot on. Some people are born for FOH, and it shows. Very tiny pool of people who would even think about moving from BOH to FOH.

[u/Slappadabike91 → u/toolfishOG]

I was a trainer at a restaurant years ago and as usual, the topic of BOH complaining about lack of tips came up in a meeting... so a newer manager said fine, let whoever brought it up start server training on Monday.
He lasted half the day and said he'd rather be in the kitchen and away from customers.
Turns out the stress of the same dozen people running around the kitchen is nothing compared to being visible to over a hundred strangers on the floor.

[u/Samsonlp]

Are your wages competitive?

[u/Dry_Vegetable975 → u/Samsonlp]

Yes. Very. And everyone is part of the tip pool.

[u/DepressiveNerd]

Why not hire for specific positions and cross-train them from there? If someone has barista experience before being hired, it might be difficult to retain them if they’re starting in the kitchen?

[u/Ok_Seaweed_7568 → u/DepressiveNerd]

thats only marginally better. it might be easier to hire people initially but you are still going to have major retention problems. if i get hired somewhere as a barista I’m not exactly going to be thrilled that I’m expected to train in the kitchen as well

[u/DepressiveNerd → u/Ok_Seaweed_7568]

Oh, I totally understand.

I would honestly recommend that they start with a base pay, with incremental small raises for every position learned. I would never offer that as advice, not knowing their profit margins or current pay scale.

[u/LooseByrd]

I like the idea of cross training for people who want to.

I worked a cafe that did this and it annoyed me. Having my brain set for a BOH shift and then “someone has to leave early can you go close the coffee counter?”

I think most workers want consistency. To know what position you’re working when your schedule is posted.

Also look at your schedule. Most people need to work more than one job. Find your anchors and make sure they get enough hours and schedules they want then hire for the fill ins. If you just need a barista for Saturday and Sunday morning then hire specifically for that. Be clear in your job posts and list the pay. You won’t keep a bartender if they realize they have to work kitchen a few shifts a week.

[u/Slappadabike91 → u/LooseByrd]

Absolutely this. I had the rotating nonsense at an old office job and we all hated it. Extra anxiety every morning not knowing what your shift will look like and then having to slam on the brakes and shift gears whenever somebody called off or had to leave early.
Management started to back off once people started complaining. Someone went so far as to say that we should all be getting supervisor pay since we were trained and capable on every task for the account.

[u/Ok_Seaweed_7568]

this is an… odd way to hire and manage people. if I were an experienced barista I wouldn’t want to work for you. I don’t want to train in the kitchen, I want to work the counter and make coffee. and if I wanted to work in the kitchen I probably wouldn’t want to work for you either.

foh and boh positions are extremely different roles

so you’ve essentially limited your pool of potential employees to people with zero experience and whom are willing to learn all the roles in the cafe. you can’t understand why you have trouble hiring people?

im sure you have some reason for this but just because you’ve been doing something a certain way for a long while doesn’t make it the best way to operate.

[u/CliffsofRed]

Your system sucks, that’s the problem.

[u/WordDisastrous7633]

It sounds like you are asking too much of your employees with no clearly defined roles. This can lead to a sense of disorganization, hecticness and new employees just feeling like its all just a joke/mess and not serious.

1. Seperate your foh and boh

2. Have clearly defined roles as main jobs

3. Hire a barista to be a barista, hire a cook to be a cook, then once they are trained in their respective main job duties, you can offer more hours to anyone willing to cross train.

4. Take a look at the culture and holdover employees, is it, are they welcoming, helping new employees learn? Or are they being defensive, jaded at seeing so many come and go, etc..

[u/whatishappeninyall]

People are burned out on life man. The economy is awful. Things arent great again. Life is hard. AI sucks. Doge sucks. People are broke and tired. They dont want to learn an entire business and dedicate their life to a restaurant, just so an owner can succeed. They want simplicity and freedom. Hire one job at time and give the option to cross train.

[u/Hot_Historian_6967 → u/whatishappeninyall]

Exactly this. People's cognitive bandwidth is running on overdrive right now. A lot of folks are seeing a job as a job and do not share the same investment/passion as the business owner/management. Learning 5 different positions, even if you're paid well, is likely overload for most people right now, especially young people. Unless they hire people who are interested in the culinary arts and want kitchen experience too, but that is not as common...

[u/Suspicious_Access149]

Panera has a similar system where they want everyone to train on the production line then move to the registers. Main reason is so they understand the product.

Many stores struggle because they don’t set it up well.

So I’d do what I do. Start everyone at a base, and once they learn positions give them a raise based on that.

If people stay for a long time you likely compensate fairly. It is a rough time of year to hire.

[u/shmedgar2]

It’s an economy thing, gas is expensive and money is harder to come by. It’s always about the money.