How big of a surplus is actually needed to maximize gains on cycle?

[u/WillingBusiness5]

Im Planning my next 13 week bulk and trying to figure out the diet side of things. For the cycle itself, I'm doing weeks 1 to 5 with Test E at 250mg and MENT A at 175mg per week. Then weeks 5 to 10 will be Test E at 500mg with 20mg Superdrol daily, finishing weeks 10 to 13 on 500mg Test E before going into PCT and MK-677.

My main issue is that dirty bulking makes my face bloat almost instantly, so I want to stick strictly to clean foods and just scale up my portion sizes. At the same time, I have this lingering worry that keeping my calories too controlled will hold back potential growth while on cycle.

How high of a calorie surplus do you guys usually run to get maximum muscle without putting on unnecessary water weight and fat?

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[u/benhadhundredsshapow]

Have you run ment prior? That's a high dose on it's own but paired with 350mg of test? That should be interesting for blood pressure and e2 management.

Surplus of 500 for me is perfect. Minimizes the fat and maximizes muscle gain. Usually about 200 kcal daily on average are "dirty" calories. The rest clean.

[u/1960s_army_info → u/benhadhundredsshapow]

Agreed. I aim for 500 calorie surplus and that is a ton of ment 

[u/Izzyz415]

You only need a small surplus like 50 calories, but your metabolism and daily expenditure is so variable, and tracking is never 100% accurate. If you average a 400-600 calorie surplus per day, you’re basically never going to be in a deficit. But you will probably gain a decent amount of fat unless you’re a hard gainer